Seeking information on Captain C. N. Pelly - my grandfather
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Seeking information on Captain C. N. Pelly - my grandfather
Apologies if this is not the correct place to post but I am researching the life of my grandfather - Captain C. Nigel Pelly.
He was born in 1908 and worked for Hillman/Imperial Airways/BOAC/British Airways flying Lockheed Electras,Canadair, Mosquitos, Argonauts and Britannias up until he retired around 1964.
His pilot training was done with 502 Ulster Squadron Special Reserve at Aldergrove.
He was also based in Egypt as part of 216 Squadron during WWII and was involved in the Berlin Airlift.
He flew Neville Chamberlain to meet Hitler in 1938 for the Peace in our Time talks.
I'd be very interested if anyone has any more information about him or even flew with him.
Many thanks
Mandy
He was born in 1908 and worked for Hillman/Imperial Airways/BOAC/British Airways flying Lockheed Electras,Canadair, Mosquitos, Argonauts and Britannias up until he retired around 1964.
His pilot training was done with 502 Ulster Squadron Special Reserve at Aldergrove.
He was also based in Egypt as part of 216 Squadron during WWII and was involved in the Berlin Airlift.
He flew Neville Chamberlain to meet Hitler in 1938 for the Peace in our Time talks.
I'd be very interested if anyone has any more information about him or even flew with him.
Many thanks
Mandy
Last edited by mandyW; 2nd Jun 2011 at 17:55. Reason: added more information
Mandy............
Firstly, welcome to the forum. I really hope that you receive some good replies. In my experience, many helpful people around.
Your grandfather sounds to have had an interesting career, progressing from Hillmans A/Ws to flying Britannias. In my view he was around at the most interesting of times in aviation.
Do you have his log books?
Planemike
Firstly, welcome to the forum. I really hope that you receive some good replies. In my experience, many helpful people around.
Your grandfather sounds to have had an interesting career, progressing from Hillmans A/Ws to flying Britannias. In my view he was around at the most interesting of times in aviation.
Do you have his log books?
Planemike
Last edited by Planemike; 27th Mar 2016 at 11:22.
Mandy W :
A few comments on your notes because that is the sort of thing we do here. And no, we're not all geeks !
What a fascinating career your grandfather had by the way. Do you know where he learned to fly ?
Hillman Airways was a very early independent airline in the mould of Freddie Laker and Richard Branson. They operated from Stapleford Airfield, near Chigwell in East London, to the Continent and UK holiday resorts. They principally ran De Havilland Dragons and Dragon Rapides (also known as DH84 and DH89) so those types would be expected in his log book as well. Hillman operated from 1931 to 1935
The progression of the early airlines was that Hillmans were absorbed by British Airways (a 1930s company nothing really to do with the current major airline of the same name), and they operated from Heston Airport (on the site of the current Heston Services on the M4) to various north European points. BA were in turn merged with Imperial Airways at the end of 1939 to form BOAC, although by then the war had started and any remainin civil airline operation was mixed up with the RAF.
If he had a career going from Hillmans to BA to BOAC, that would be straightforward. If he was with Imperial he must have left his job to join them. None of the aircraft types you describe were operated by Imperial.
The aircraft used by Chamberlain to go to Germany was Lockheed Electra G-AEPR, which features in the background of the well-known photograph of Chamberlain returning (which is taken at Heston and not, contrary to common belief, at Croydon). I take it you have checked this photograph of Chamberlain at Heston (eg http://www.ssplprints.com/zoom.php?h...8&image=100769 ) to see if he is one of those in aircrew-type hats at the back, against the aircraft.
The Canadair and the Argonaut are the same aircraft type, the Canadair C-4 Argonaut. BOAC operated these from 1949 to 1960. The Bristol Britannia came along slowly in the late 1950s and didn't last so long with BOAC, the last went in 1965. I would guess your grandfather's retirement coincided with the withdrawl of this type, if he was near to completing his career it would not be worthwhile to train him on jets.
I wonder what he flew on the Berlin Airlift as none of the types you list were involved.
A few comments on your notes because that is the sort of thing we do here. And no, we're not all geeks !
What a fascinating career your grandfather had by the way. Do you know where he learned to fly ?
Hillman Airways was a very early independent airline in the mould of Freddie Laker and Richard Branson. They operated from Stapleford Airfield, near Chigwell in East London, to the Continent and UK holiday resorts. They principally ran De Havilland Dragons and Dragon Rapides (also known as DH84 and DH89) so those types would be expected in his log book as well. Hillman operated from 1931 to 1935
The progression of the early airlines was that Hillmans were absorbed by British Airways (a 1930s company nothing really to do with the current major airline of the same name), and they operated from Heston Airport (on the site of the current Heston Services on the M4) to various north European points. BA were in turn merged with Imperial Airways at the end of 1939 to form BOAC, although by then the war had started and any remainin civil airline operation was mixed up with the RAF.
If he had a career going from Hillmans to BA to BOAC, that would be straightforward. If he was with Imperial he must have left his job to join them. None of the aircraft types you describe were operated by Imperial.
The aircraft used by Chamberlain to go to Germany was Lockheed Electra G-AEPR, which features in the background of the well-known photograph of Chamberlain returning (which is taken at Heston and not, contrary to common belief, at Croydon). I take it you have checked this photograph of Chamberlain at Heston (eg http://www.ssplprints.com/zoom.php?h...8&image=100769 ) to see if he is one of those in aircrew-type hats at the back, against the aircraft.
The Canadair and the Argonaut are the same aircraft type, the Canadair C-4 Argonaut. BOAC operated these from 1949 to 1960. The Bristol Britannia came along slowly in the late 1950s and didn't last so long with BOAC, the last went in 1965. I would guess your grandfather's retirement coincided with the withdrawl of this type, if he was near to completing his career it would not be worthwhile to train him on jets.
I wonder what he flew on the Berlin Airlift as none of the types you list were involved.
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Hallo...Chamberlain made 3 flights to Germany, the first to Munich to meet Hitler at Berchtesgaden in L.10 G-AEPR, the second to Cologne to meet Hitler at Bad Godesberg in the brand-new L14 G-AFGN and the third to Munich for the multinational Peace Conference in G-AFGN again. A back-up aircraft was flown on all these trips
I've summarized what video and still material I could find on the net about Chamberlain's flights in post #64 (4 down) on this link Great Scoops From Flickr And LIFE Archive - Page 3 - Key Publishing Ltd Aviation Forums
my favourite stills are from the second trip (to Cologne for Bad Godesburg) which show the crew well
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...r_Abkommen.jpg
and
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...r_Abkommen.jpg
I don't know if your Grandfather was on that trip... I suspect the smaller pilot? in the centre of the latter pic is Reinhold Caspareuthus, a South African...hope these are of interest
I've summarized what video and still material I could find on the net about Chamberlain's flights in post #64 (4 down) on this link Great Scoops From Flickr And LIFE Archive - Page 3 - Key Publishing Ltd Aviation Forums
my favourite stills are from the second trip (to Cologne for Bad Godesburg) which show the crew well
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...r_Abkommen.jpg
and
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...r_Abkommen.jpg
I don't know if your Grandfather was on that trip... I suspect the smaller pilot? in the centre of the latter pic is Reinhold Caspareuthus, a South African...hope these are of interest
British Airways Ltd. - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
However this Wikipedia page also says that the final aircraft used was L.14 G-AFGN, whereas the photo I linked earlier of Chamberlain's return clearly shows G-AEPR - unless it was a backdrop but not the aircraft he had just arrived on.
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There's much confusion about Chamberlain's trips but I think the Wikipedia account is accurate. I sent Critical Past some corrections to their captions but haven't checked the current accuracy.
I've just found this online book' From Fishing to Flying' by a BA Ltd Radio operator from that period which mentions Captain Pelly
Fishing to Flying: Chapter 14
I've just found this online book' From Fishing to Flying' by a BA Ltd Radio operator from that period which mentions Captain Pelly
Fishing to Flying: Chapter 14
Just a little bit more about Ted Hillman. He started operations in 1932 flying from Romford to Clacton using two deH 80 Puss Moths and 2 deH 83 Fox Moths. He died on 31 Dec 1934. By this time control of the airline had passed to Whitehall Securities who formed British Airways on 01 Oct 1935 merging Spartan Airlines and United Airlines with Hillmans to form BA (the first).
It was with his encouagement that deH went ahead and built the deH 84 Dragon. He wanted an aircraft with more capacity than the Fox Moth.
Planemike
It was with his encouagement that deH went ahead and built the deH 84 Dragon. He wanted an aircraft with more capacity than the Fox Moth.
Planemike
Last edited by Planemike; 29th May 2011 at 12:55.
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MandyW
Sharp and Bowyer's book 'Mosquito' has a photo of Capt CN (Nigel) Pelly (photo 117) at Leuchars and the full caption(Page 387) records that he was flight captain from September 1943 onwards. The copyright of the photo rests (or rested when the book was written) with DeHavilland. He is mentioned on Page 331 as possibly flying Marshal Timoshenko and having to fly with the bomb doors half open. He's also mentioned on Page 337 in the crew lists.
If you can't get hold of a copy of the book, PM me.
Sharp and Bowyer's book 'Mosquito' has a photo of Capt CN (Nigel) Pelly (photo 117) at Leuchars and the full caption(Page 387) records that he was flight captain from September 1943 onwards. The copyright of the photo rests (or rested when the book was written) with DeHavilland. He is mentioned on Page 331 as possibly flying Marshal Timoshenko and having to fly with the bomb doors half open. He's also mentioned on Page 337 in the crew lists.
If you can't get hold of a copy of the book, PM me.
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Thank you so much to everyone who has replied, I really appreciate it especially the wonderful newsreel and photo links. I have asked my father to check these to see if he can recognise my grandfather however we're pretty sure that Captain Pelly would have been inside the aircraft when Chamberlain was entering/leaving so is not visible. In fact in one newsreel you can see someone in the cockpit whilst Chamberlain is talking. We are also unsure whether he flew on all 3 flights but know for sure he was on the first one. Logs from this period would be very useful.
To answer your questions..
@Planemike - we have logbooks from his RAF days but not from BOAC sadly
@WHBM - Nigel learnt to fly in the RAF (Ulster 502 squadron which later became the Coastal Command) aged 17.
I was incorrect saying he worked for Imperial, we believe it was the companies I listed and also BEA.
I checked again with my dad and it seems Capt Pelly was actually the Directory of Operations at BOAC during the Berlin Airlift so we believe he was more involved in the organisation than flying.
He had to retire due to ill health in 1964 and died sadly in 1966.
@A30yoyo - thank you for the link to Allen Finch's book "Fishing to Flying" - I had already seen a reference in Chapter 16 but missed the one in Chapter 14 which was fantastic to read! I have made contact with Allen's son & wife and although he is no longer alive, his son has sent me copies of log book entries which show him & my grandfather flying together on numerous occasions.
@DeepestSouth - thank you for this reference, I have PM'd you to ask if this is the same photo as in Ian Thirsk's de Havilland Mosquito book (p. 373)
Once again to everyone who has responded, thank you! I will also send any further information I find out to this thread.
To answer your questions..
@Planemike - we have logbooks from his RAF days but not from BOAC sadly
@WHBM - Nigel learnt to fly in the RAF (Ulster 502 squadron which later became the Coastal Command) aged 17.
I was incorrect saying he worked for Imperial, we believe it was the companies I listed and also BEA.
I checked again with my dad and it seems Capt Pelly was actually the Directory of Operations at BOAC during the Berlin Airlift so we believe he was more involved in the organisation than flying.
He had to retire due to ill health in 1964 and died sadly in 1966.
@A30yoyo - thank you for the link to Allen Finch's book "Fishing to Flying" - I had already seen a reference in Chapter 16 but missed the one in Chapter 14 which was fantastic to read! I have made contact with Allen's son & wife and although he is no longer alive, his son has sent me copies of log book entries which show him & my grandfather flying together on numerous occasions.
@DeepestSouth - thank you for this reference, I have PM'd you to ask if this is the same photo as in Ian Thirsk's de Havilland Mosquito book (p. 373)
Once again to everyone who has responded, thank you! I will also send any further information I find out to this thread.
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BOAC Mosquito
This is a BOAC Mosquito being boarded by a crew but I don't think Captain Pelly is one of them
LIFE: War 1939-1945 Wwii Air United Kingdom - Hosted by Google
One may be Ron Ashley mentioned in Stephen Greensted's photos
Ron and crew at RAF Leuchars,1943 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Correction, according to the IWM from whom a copy of the BOAC Mosquito photo may be purchased, the passenger on the right is congratulating Captain Wilkins(on the ladder?) and his navigator for a safe flight
LIFE: War 1939-1945 Wwii Air United Kingdom - Hosted by Google
One may be Ron Ashley mentioned in Stephen Greensted's photos
Ron and crew at RAF Leuchars,1943 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Correction, according to the IWM from whom a copy of the BOAC Mosquito photo may be purchased, the passenger on the right is congratulating Captain Wilkins(on the ladder?) and his navigator for a safe flight
Last edited by A30yoyo; 30th May 2011 at 14:02.
Mandy..........
What a shame you do not have his pre-war log books. They would have been fascinating reading.
In your original post you mention British Airways, guess that will be BA, the first, i.e. he transferred there from Hillmans
Planemike
@Planemike - we have logbooks from his RAF days but not from BOAC sadly
In your original post you mention British Airways, guess that will be BA, the first, i.e. he transferred there from Hillmans
Planemike
"Seven Skies" by John Pudney has a couple of mentions.It recalls his Berlin airlift uniform as being a boiler suit as they carried cargoes such as coal and flour. That would have been on Dakotas.
"Merchant Airmen" has him flying BOAC Lodestars from Cairo into the Western Desert in support of the army.
"Mosquito"says Captain Pelly returned from North Africa to Leuchars in September 1943.
"Merchant Airmen" has him flying BOAC Lodestars from Cairo into the Western Desert in support of the army.
"Mosquito"says Captain Pelly returned from North Africa to Leuchars in September 1943.
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Thank you very much renfrew for the book references, I've seen the Seven Skies one but hadn't see the "Merchant Airmen"reference - I've just ordered a copy! I believe the reference in "Mosquito" is the same as in Ian Thirsk's de Havilland Mosquito book (p. 373)?
Thanks to links given on this site I have just got off the phone to the grandson of Ron Ashley whose logs show he flew with my grandfather at Leuchars - what a small world!
Thanks to links given on this site I have just got off the phone to the grandson of Ron Ashley whose logs show he flew with my grandfather at Leuchars - what a small world!
Last edited by mandyW; 30th May 2011 at 20:13. Reason: spelling
I've been checking out my Propliner collection. Mandy, this is a well-known (to us lot) and longstanding, very professional (but done by amateur enthusiasts) quarterly magazine about old propeller aircraft.
Capt. Pelly seems to have spent more time on the Canadair Argonaut than anything else, and I recalled a long article about the BOAC fleet from a while ago. Propliner 78 (Spring 1999) and 80 (Autumn 1999) contain this, in two parts. There is just one mention of Pelly by name, saying from June 14 to July 8 1949 he, along with three other captains, was on the pioneer BOAC Argonaut proving flight from Heathrow to the Far East. He must have been one of the key crew to get on such a trip. You may like to see the lengthy article, notwithstanding that it is mostly about aircraft and mechanical issues of course, because it describes in detail what must have been a major part of his life.
Here's a question from something in the article. Did he ever suffer from hearing problems ? Apparently it was common among longserving Argonaut crews in later life due to the sheer noise of the engine exhausts on that aircraft.
Against our normal policy here I'm going to sneak in a link to a place (who is also the magazine publisher), because both 78 and 80 appear to be still available. Telephone them at the number shown on their home page, you will normally speak with forever-helpful Janet, and you can have them in the post.
Propliner Current
I'll go through the Britannia articles in the magazine sometime as well, but that is a longer task as it was very extensively covered over time.
Capt. Pelly seems to have spent more time on the Canadair Argonaut than anything else, and I recalled a long article about the BOAC fleet from a while ago. Propliner 78 (Spring 1999) and 80 (Autumn 1999) contain this, in two parts. There is just one mention of Pelly by name, saying from June 14 to July 8 1949 he, along with three other captains, was on the pioneer BOAC Argonaut proving flight from Heathrow to the Far East. He must have been one of the key crew to get on such a trip. You may like to see the lengthy article, notwithstanding that it is mostly about aircraft and mechanical issues of course, because it describes in detail what must have been a major part of his life.
Here's a question from something in the article. Did he ever suffer from hearing problems ? Apparently it was common among longserving Argonaut crews in later life due to the sheer noise of the engine exhausts on that aircraft.
Against our normal policy here I'm going to sneak in a link to a place (who is also the magazine publisher), because both 78 and 80 appear to be still available. Telephone them at the number shown on their home page, you will normally speak with forever-helpful Janet, and you can have them in the post.
Propliner Current
I'll go through the Britannia articles in the magazine sometime as well, but that is a longer task as it was very extensively covered over time.
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@WHBM - wow, thank you I will definitely call & try & get copies of these editions, really appreciate you taking the time to research. I had read a small article about the proving flight at hong kong | scottish aviation | canadair | 1949 | 1274 | Flight Archive which had a photo of him & the crew but it would be great to read more detail. FYI my grandfather flew Britannias from 1956-1963 on routes from London to Johannesburg and then to Australia and the Far East.
My father doesn't remember Captain Pelly having any hearing problems.
@A30yoyo - I think link http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...r_Abkommen.jpg may well have my grandfather in the middle. My dad was pretty certain but he did say it was unlike his father to have his hat askew! You mention the in man the centre of this picture is Reinhold Caspareuthus, do you know why he was there with Chamberlain?
Finally for today, my father has mentioned a few more pieces of trivia..
- My grandfather was given a blunt reminder that the flight manifest for Neville Chamberlain's first flight should include 2 bottles of single malt to which the prime minister was known to be partial!
- He logged over 4 million airmiles
- Captain Pelly flew the first British mail service to Malmo in 1936.
- As well as the planes I mentioned he also flew Air Speed Ferries (a three-engined type), Avro 10, Dragon Rapide and later the Rapide.
- My father believes that Captain Pelly flew prime ministers Ramsey Macdonald (193x?) and Clement Attlee (on his far east tour 1947/8?) as well as Churchill prewar, before he became prime minister. I haven't been able to substantiate these claims.
My father doesn't remember Captain Pelly having any hearing problems.
@A30yoyo - I think link http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...r_Abkommen.jpg may well have my grandfather in the middle. My dad was pretty certain but he did say it was unlike his father to have his hat askew! You mention the in man the centre of this picture is Reinhold Caspareuthus, do you know why he was there with Chamberlain?
Finally for today, my father has mentioned a few more pieces of trivia..
- My grandfather was given a blunt reminder that the flight manifest for Neville Chamberlain's first flight should include 2 bottles of single malt to which the prime minister was known to be partial!
- He logged over 4 million airmiles
- Captain Pelly flew the first British mail service to Malmo in 1936.
- As well as the planes I mentioned he also flew Air Speed Ferries (a three-engined type), Avro 10, Dragon Rapide and later the Rapide.
- My father believes that Captain Pelly flew prime ministers Ramsey Macdonald (193x?) and Clement Attlee (on his far east tour 1947/8?) as well as Churchill prewar, before he became prime minister. I haven't been able to substantiate these claims.
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If you go to britishairways.com you will find a contact number for the BA Heritage Centre. They hold a lot of information on BOAC crew members.
Nigel Pelly was quite a high-profile figure.
Also the Croydon Airport Visitors Centre may be linked to a project collecting biographical details of Imperial Airways pilots. Try them also.
Nigel Pelly was quite a high-profile figure.
Also the Croydon Airport Visitors Centre may be linked to a project collecting biographical details of Imperial Airways pilots. Try them also.
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MandyW....I based my guess on this page....I thought the middle guy at Koln looked like Caspareuthus (assuming the Southampton pilot is him!)
Imperial Airways captain poses beside his boat - PortCities Southampton
Imperial Airways captain poses beside his boat - PortCities Southampton
MandyW
Given your granfather's high profile in piloting VIPs I wonder whether whilst on Britannia’s he was involved in similar VIP flights?
I was stationed with the RAF in Ceylon (Sri Lanka) in 1957 and was present when the Duke of Gloucester (the Queen's uncle) passed through RAF Negombo (Katunayake) in August 1957 on his way to Malaya where he represented the Queen at the Malaya Independence celebrations. These took place in Kuala Lumpur on 31 August 1957. His BOAC Britannia G-ANBG made a short refuelling stop at Negombo that warranted a local welcoming party of official "meeters and greeters" supported by a display of flags and bunting as seen in my photo here.
The two black and white photos above were scrounged from the R.A.F. Negombo photographic section whose official photographer photographed the event for posterity. I think the young man with his back to the cameraman is the Duke of Gloucester’s son Prince William of Gloucester (he would have been about 15 or 16 at the time). Prince William died in a plane crash at Halfpenny Green in August 1972.
Anyway passed on for information.
PS. Photo of BOAC Brit G-ANBO photographed at Negombo in 1957, just in case your grandfather flew in this whilst on the BOAC Britannia Far-East run.
Given your granfather's high profile in piloting VIPs I wonder whether whilst on Britannia’s he was involved in similar VIP flights?
I was stationed with the RAF in Ceylon (Sri Lanka) in 1957 and was present when the Duke of Gloucester (the Queen's uncle) passed through RAF Negombo (Katunayake) in August 1957 on his way to Malaya where he represented the Queen at the Malaya Independence celebrations. These took place in Kuala Lumpur on 31 August 1957. His BOAC Britannia G-ANBG made a short refuelling stop at Negombo that warranted a local welcoming party of official "meeters and greeters" supported by a display of flags and bunting as seen in my photo here.
The two black and white photos above were scrounged from the R.A.F. Negombo photographic section whose official photographer photographed the event for posterity. I think the young man with his back to the cameraman is the Duke of Gloucester’s son Prince William of Gloucester (he would have been about 15 or 16 at the time). Prince William died in a plane crash at Halfpenny Green in August 1972.
Anyway passed on for information.
PS. Photo of BOAC Brit G-ANBO photographed at Negombo in 1957, just in case your grandfather flew in this whilst on the BOAC Britannia Far-East run.
Warmtoast.............
Thank you for the two wonderful photos of that wonderful aircraft....the Britannia !!!
G-ANBG was of course re-registered G-APLL. The reason?? Its original registration caused some embarassment !! No B****y Good.........!! Pointed out on a few occasions when the a/c went "tech" !!!
Planemike
Thank you for the two wonderful photos of that wonderful aircraft....the Britannia !!!
G-ANBG was of course re-registered G-APLL. The reason?? Its original registration caused some embarassment !! No B****y Good.........!! Pointed out on a few occasions when the a/c went "tech" !!!
Planemike
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Hallo MandyW!
There is a wonderful book of the Argonaut (North Star):
"The Canadair North Star" by Larry Milberry, CANAV Books,
ISBN 0-9690703-1-4.
On page 40 is the schedule of the route proving flight from Jun 14 to July 8.
Crew Capts. Farnworth, Cane, Pelly and Haddon. Also Al Lilly from Canadair. Aircraft G ALHD
On page 41 a foto of capts. Cane and Pelly in the cockpit
On page 114 is a little story about Capt. Pelly.
Best regards
There is a wonderful book of the Argonaut (North Star):
"The Canadair North Star" by Larry Milberry, CANAV Books,
ISBN 0-9690703-1-4.
On page 40 is the schedule of the route proving flight from Jun 14 to July 8.
Crew Capts. Farnworth, Cane, Pelly and Haddon. Also Al Lilly from Canadair. Aircraft G ALHD
On page 41 a foto of capts. Cane and Pelly in the cockpit
On page 114 is a little story about Capt. Pelly.
Best regards