Tracing back a WWII RAF pilot
Thread Starter
Tracing back a WWII RAF pilot
Hello all,
A couple of months ago I learned that a distant cousin was a pilot for the RAF during the WWII and had received a DFC and a DFM. I would like to know more about him and maybe write a small piece.
Does the RAF team of PPRuNe has any idea on how I can get some more information. I have his name but I am not sure how can I proceed.
Thanks in advance.
Rwy in Sight
A couple of months ago I learned that a distant cousin was a pilot for the RAF during the WWII and had received a DFC and a DFM. I would like to know more about him and maybe write a small piece.
Does the RAF team of PPRuNe has any idea on how I can get some more information. I have his name but I am not sure how can I proceed.
Thanks in advance.
Rwy in Sight
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Have you Googled him (and permutations of his first name/surname etc)? You'll be amazed at how much is on the web. Next off go to the Histeria and Neuralgia forum and ask about him by name - many on there have shelves groaning with history books, and he may be find-able.
Try searching for him on The London Gazette as well - there won't be any tales on there, but it may reveal dates, appointments or more on his gallantry awards.
Try searching for him on The London Gazette as well - there won't be any tales on there, but it may reveal dates, appointments or more on his gallantry awards.
Put his name (even better his service number, if you have it) into the London Gazette search engine.
That should show you promotions, decorations etc.
Good luck - would you share your researchs with us here as you discover detail?
Edit: Doh - airborne artist suggested that already; teach me to keep the edit window open for ages. Ah well, you've at least got a direct link now.
That should show you promotions, decorations etc.
Good luck - would you share your researchs with us here as you discover detail?
Edit: Doh - airborne artist suggested that already; teach me to keep the edit window open for ages. Ah well, you've at least got a direct link now.
Last edited by BossEyed; 25th Jun 2010 at 22:35.
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About 5 years ago I helped a friend trace her father who was an NCO pilot on Spitfires in WWII. He was posted Missing in Action in 1944 whilst her mum was pregnant with her, so she never knew him.
I contacted Personnel Records at RAF Innsworth (as was) and we were able to get a copy of his service file, which led to Jean learning his Squadron and then getting in touch with the Squadron Association - and this has led to her meeting colleagues of her dad.
Personnel Records are now at Cranwell RAF Innsworth - Contact us
Good luck.
I contacted Personnel Records at RAF Innsworth (as was) and we were able to get a copy of his service file, which led to Jean learning his Squadron and then getting in touch with the Squadron Association - and this has led to her meeting colleagues of her dad.
Personnel Records are now at Cranwell RAF Innsworth - Contact us
Good luck.
Just a word of clarification regarding the last post - this lady would have been able to get info on her father's records, but unless you are surviving next of kin (unlikely, I suspect) you would not be given access to your cousin's records by Innsworth. London Gazette search very good advice, and as I always say to people on here with this sort of question - dont discount professional researchers - they will save you loads of time, find out stuff you probably wouldnt, and will normally be cheaper than you thought they'd be.
Records
Dear Rwy Insight,
I have a record of all DFM citations and you can have a copy of the text for this one.
If his DFC was awarded as an officer (not as a WO), his service number will have changed from his DFM award. Whilst I have a record of all DFCs, not all come with citations and they require a bit more digging.
Sqn associations are a good source for tracing his mates etc and if he was in a 'famous' sqn, there might be a published history (or several if it's 74 sqn!!).
If you want to send me a private message then I will see what I can do re citations and shall be at the RAF Museum's research department in mid-July and can look at the Air Ministry bulletin, which will show a citation if the award was 'immediate', rather than awarded for a tour of ops.
Hope this helps. The previous posts are all valuable info - there is now a shed load of stuff available, the problem is finding it. The Freedom of Information Act - introduced by 'Teflon Tony' - actually impedes research in some cases and led to masses of info being destroyed as I understand it.
Good luck with your research into this gallant gentleman's service life. Is he still with us by the way?
O-D
I have a record of all DFM citations and you can have a copy of the text for this one.
If his DFC was awarded as an officer (not as a WO), his service number will have changed from his DFM award. Whilst I have a record of all DFCs, not all come with citations and they require a bit more digging.
Sqn associations are a good source for tracing his mates etc and if he was in a 'famous' sqn, there might be a published history (or several if it's 74 sqn!!).
If you want to send me a private message then I will see what I can do re citations and shall be at the RAF Museum's research department in mid-July and can look at the Air Ministry bulletin, which will show a citation if the award was 'immediate', rather than awarded for a tour of ops.
Hope this helps. The previous posts are all valuable info - there is now a shed load of stuff available, the problem is finding it. The Freedom of Information Act - introduced by 'Teflon Tony' - actually impedes research in some cases and led to masses of info being destroyed as I understand it.
Good luck with your research into this gallant gentleman's service life. Is he still with us by the way?
O-D
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Finnpog
What a timely post, thanks.
Yesterday a neighbour asked me how he could find information about a favourite uncle who died in a Maritime Lanc accident at Lossie in the 50s. I'll copy the Cranwell info for him.
Yesterday a neighbour asked me how he could find information about a favourite uncle who died in a Maritime Lanc accident at Lossie in the 50s. I'll copy the Cranwell info for him.
All good advice.
DFM's were for non commissioned "men"; the DFC was for hofficers. On gaining a Commission, his Service Number was changed (as previously explained) therefore if anyone has his medals they may not think they are for the same man. The DFM was a fairly rare medal (not just issued willy nilly "with the rations") and to go on and gain a DFC is rarer still. Well worth investigating further and I am sure the London Gazette citations will only be a fraction of the story.
If you know his Sqdn, there may be an Association that can provide additional information. There are Operation Record Books detailing what was done by the Squadron.
If you know the wartime address of his parents etc, then there may be local newspaper archives in the Local History section of the library. If you can't get there, the librarians are usually helpful or may be able to suggest some researchers for you to contact.
There are plenty of books too, so Google a Search to see what you can readily find.
Don't forget to keep us in the loop, especially if you come up with original memoirs and stories..
DFM's were for non commissioned "men"; the DFC was for hofficers. On gaining a Commission, his Service Number was changed (as previously explained) therefore if anyone has his medals they may not think they are for the same man. The DFM was a fairly rare medal (not just issued willy nilly "with the rations") and to go on and gain a DFC is rarer still. Well worth investigating further and I am sure the London Gazette citations will only be a fraction of the story.
If you know his Sqdn, there may be an Association that can provide additional information. There are Operation Record Books detailing what was done by the Squadron.
If you know the wartime address of his parents etc, then there may be local newspaper archives in the Local History section of the library. If you can't get there, the librarians are usually helpful or may be able to suggest some researchers for you to contact.
There are plenty of books too, so Google a Search to see what you can readily find.
Don't forget to keep us in the loop, especially if you come up with original memoirs and stories..
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Another tip,
If you are using the London Gazette website to search for him, it can produce odd results.
The text has been scanned using OCR software, sometimes there are problems with the typeface etc that make searches fail.
I've also had more joy scanning for a service number than a name, unless he had a rare name.
Books available:
Honour the Air Forces - Maton - A list of all air gallantry recipients for WW2, (although apparently some late post war ones are missing) Useful shortcut because it gives you the page number for the LG.
DFM Register - Tavender - All DFM recipients for WW2, bar foreign awards. Has copies of the recommendation for nearly all. This is worth having because it often gives more detail than gets printed, for example one may say something like, "On the night of 26 June" the other may say "One night in June" It also sometimes has the comments of the OCs who approved the award. Also has the National Archive reference so you can go and look at the document.
DFC Register - Carter - All DFC recipients awarded until 1995. Has only the text of the LG, if the LG has a citation the book will.
I’ve got copies of these, happy to help…I suspect Old-Duffer may have too
Good luck,
Jim
If you are using the London Gazette website to search for him, it can produce odd results.
The text has been scanned using OCR software, sometimes there are problems with the typeface etc that make searches fail.
I've also had more joy scanning for a service number than a name, unless he had a rare name.
Books available:
Honour the Air Forces - Maton - A list of all air gallantry recipients for WW2, (although apparently some late post war ones are missing) Useful shortcut because it gives you the page number for the LG.
DFM Register - Tavender - All DFM recipients for WW2, bar foreign awards. Has copies of the recommendation for nearly all. This is worth having because it often gives more detail than gets printed, for example one may say something like, "On the night of 26 June" the other may say "One night in June" It also sometimes has the comments of the OCs who approved the award. Also has the National Archive reference so you can go and look at the document.
DFC Register - Carter - All DFC recipients awarded until 1995. Has only the text of the LG, if the LG has a citation the book will.
I’ve got copies of these, happy to help…I suspect Old-Duffer may have too
Good luck,
Jim
the DFC was for hofficers
DFC - 20,354, plus 1592 bars
DFM - 6,637, plus 61 bars
Source British Gallantry Awards, by Abbott & Tamplin
I have no figures for the DFC/DFM combination but as Icare9 suggests its quite a scarce combination. The DFC was, in fact, by a fairly large margin the most commonly awarded gallantry medal in WW2. I own a tin trunk which belonged to a Beaufighter pilot who had the DFC and the DFM, the former awarded for shooting down a formation of 5 unaccompanied J52 transports over the Med!
Maritime Lanc Casualty
Dear Fincastle,
At the risk of being branded a 'Thread Hog', I also have records, short summaries and casualty details of most (nearly all in fact) of RAF aircraft losses since 8 May 1945.
If you need a short summary of the maritime Lanc to which you refer, please PM me.
O-D
At the risk of being branded a 'Thread Hog', I also have records, short summaries and casualty details of most (nearly all in fact) of RAF aircraft losses since 8 May 1945.
If you need a short summary of the maritime Lanc to which you refer, please PM me.
O-D
Thread Starter
Many thanks for your assistance so far. His name is VAS(S)ILIADIS Vas(s)ilios or VASILIADIS Vasileios. I am not sure how the Greek spelling is transferred to the English language.
According to what I know: He was a student when WWII started and voluntarily(sp) enlisted in the RAF and he concluded his flying training in September 1942. His first shoot down was an Me-109 flying a P-51 on April 22nd 1944. He was killed on march 25th, 1945.
I am not sure if he was officer or not.
Any help will me most welcome again.
Rwy in Sight
According to what I know: He was a student when WWII started and voluntarily(sp) enlisted in the RAF and he concluded his flying training in September 1942. His first shoot down was an Me-109 flying a P-51 on April 22nd 1944. He was killed on march 25th, 1945.
I am not sure if he was officer or not.
Any help will me most welcome again.
Rwy in Sight
Rwy in Sight
The believe that the man you are looking for is;
(182875) Flt Lt Basil Michael VASSILLIADES, Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve
He died 25/3/45 and is remembered on the Runnymeade Memorial, Panel 266.
I hope that this helps.
Jimbo27 should now be able to let you know about the DFC and DFM.
Please keep us informed.
Aaron.
(182875) Flt Lt Basil Michael VASSILLIADES, Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve
He died 25/3/45 and is remembered on the Runnymeade Memorial, Panel 266.
I hope that this helps.
Jimbo27 should now be able to let you know about the DFC and DFM.
Please keep us informed.
Aaron.
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OK,
Lots on him.
LG entry for DFM is here:
http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/36686/supplements/4123
As I said above, the recommendation often gives more than the citation.
This is a good example.
Citation says:
1388657 Flight Sergeant Basilios VASSILIADES,R.A.F.V.R., 19 Sqn.
This airman has participated in many sorties over Northern France and has attacked many military targets with good results. He-is a most capable section leader whose example of gallantry and determination has won much praise. Flight Sergeant Vassiliades has destroyed 4 enemy aircraft.
Recommendation in Tavender says:
This NCO started operational flying in July 1943. Up until D-Day, he had completed numerous sorties, including 15 long-range escorts. He destroyed 1 ½ enemy aircraft during this period and damaged others on the ground. Since D-Day this NCO has been leading a section. On one occasion he was attacked by numerically superior enemy aircraft. He shot down two of these aircraft and damaged another on the ground. His score is now 4 ½ enemy aircraft destroyed and 2 damaged. He has also attacked numerous ground targets including trucks, trains, and gasometers, He is a fine leader and at all times has shown a great determination and aggressive fighting spirit.
It also records that he had 202 flying hours and 102 sorties at that point.
His Wing Commander said:
This Flight Sergeant is an exceptionally aggresive pilot and his spirit, results and contributions to the Squadron's efforts is of the highest order.
The DFC was approved 19/3/45. Because it was an Honorary award to a foreign national it isn't listed in the LG, (or Maton!)
There is also a biography of him in Aces High (Chris Shores) and several mentions in Fighter Squadron ( a history of 19 Sqn) (Derek Palmer)
Happy to post the details here, but I don't want to spoil your fun if you want to look them up.
A brave man, I would be honoured to be related to him.
Lots on him.
LG entry for DFM is here:
http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/36686/supplements/4123
As I said above, the recommendation often gives more than the citation.
This is a good example.
Citation says:
1388657 Flight Sergeant Basilios VASSILIADES,R.A.F.V.R., 19 Sqn.
This airman has participated in many sorties over Northern France and has attacked many military targets with good results. He-is a most capable section leader whose example of gallantry and determination has won much praise. Flight Sergeant Vassiliades has destroyed 4 enemy aircraft.
Recommendation in Tavender says:
This NCO started operational flying in July 1943. Up until D-Day, he had completed numerous sorties, including 15 long-range escorts. He destroyed 1 ½ enemy aircraft during this period and damaged others on the ground. Since D-Day this NCO has been leading a section. On one occasion he was attacked by numerically superior enemy aircraft. He shot down two of these aircraft and damaged another on the ground. His score is now 4 ½ enemy aircraft destroyed and 2 damaged. He has also attacked numerous ground targets including trucks, trains, and gasometers, He is a fine leader and at all times has shown a great determination and aggressive fighting spirit.
It also records that he had 202 flying hours and 102 sorties at that point.
His Wing Commander said:
This Flight Sergeant is an exceptionally aggresive pilot and his spirit, results and contributions to the Squadron's efforts is of the highest order.
The DFC was approved 19/3/45. Because it was an Honorary award to a foreign national it isn't listed in the LG, (or Maton!)
There is also a biography of him in Aces High (Chris Shores) and several mentions in Fighter Squadron ( a history of 19 Sqn) (Derek Palmer)
Happy to post the details here, but I don't want to spoil your fun if you want to look them up.
A brave man, I would be honoured to be related to him.
Originally Posted by Jimbo27
It also records that he had 202 flying hours and 102 sorties at that point.
Additional Info from the Wings Palette website WINGS PALETTE - Hawker Tempest - Great Britain(and artwork for the aircraft about halfway down):-
Tempest Mk.V. Unit: 3 Sqn, RAF. Serial: JF-A (NV755)
Pilot - Fl/Lt. B.M.Vassilliades (Greek), B80 Volkel, Netherlands, March 1945. The aircraft in which the Greek ace crashed to his death over the Bocholt woods, NW Germany, on March 25th, 1945 shot down by flak, while strafing German armour concentrated in the area.
Which seems to give a crash location, somewhat at odds with CWGC
Name: VASSILLIADES, BASIL MICHAEL
Initials: B M
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Flight Lieutenant
Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve
Unit Text: 3 Sqdn.
Date of Death: 25/03/1945
Service No: 182875
Awards: D F C, D F M
Additional information: Native of Greece.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 266.
Memorial: RUNNYMEDE MEMORIAL
Also this web page dedicated to him:-
Vassiliades Vassilios - Vass
Tempest Mk.V. Unit: 3 Sqn, RAF. Serial: JF-A (NV755)
Pilot - Fl/Lt. B.M.Vassilliades (Greek), B80 Volkel, Netherlands, March 1945. The aircraft in which the Greek ace crashed to his death over the Bocholt woods, NW Germany, on March 25th, 1945 shot down by flak, while strafing German armour concentrated in the area.
Which seems to give a crash location, somewhat at odds with CWGC
Name: VASSILLIADES, BASIL MICHAEL
Initials: B M
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Flight Lieutenant
Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve
Unit Text: 3 Sqdn.
Date of Death: 25/03/1945
Service No: 182875
Awards: D F C, D F M
Additional information: Native of Greece.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 266.
Memorial: RUNNYMEDE MEMORIAL
Also this web page dedicated to him:-
Vassiliades Vassilios - Vass
I am confident that Runway will be as impressed as I am by a typically great - and very speedy - PPRuNe response to a pretty impressive man. As Jimbo so rightly says "I would be honoured to be related to him".
A retrospective thank you Vass and his family, and thank you Gentlemen.
Jack
PS ICare - Well worth a cross-reference on "Gaining ....."?
A retrospective thank you Vass and his family, and thank you Gentlemen.
Jack
PS ICare - Well worth a cross-reference on "Gaining ....."?
