Most precedential airplanes of all time?
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"Surely a milestone?"
Absolutely. Trouble is, I'm limited to 12 or 13 milestones. If I could do 50, we'd all be happy. There'd even be room for the Vickers Vimy...
Absolutely. Trouble is, I'm limited to 12 or 13 milestones. If I could do 50, we'd all be happy. There'd even be room for the Vickers Vimy...
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Hello Pobjoy, speaking of which, how is she coming along?
Cheers
Treadders
Cheers
Treadders
I'm suprised that Cesnna's ubiquitous 172 hasn't got a mention. Not the sexiest looking aeroplane out there, doesn't fly the nicest, nor is it the quickest, but for what it was originally designed to do it does it extraordinary well. Duanne Wallace got it pretty much correct right out of the box. Just like they did with the DC3 and the 747.
Those three aircraft would definitely make it onto the 'all time greatest' list.
Those three aircraft would definitely make it onto the 'all time greatest' list.
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As long as we're talking precedents evolving -
A personal favorite is Benny Howard's DGA-6 Mister Mulligan of 1934. It was designed specifically for high-altitude long-range racing, but was good enough to win the unlimited closed-course Thompson race too - (with a little luck when Roscoe Turner blew a engine in 1935).
And it was the only racing design to evolve into a successful line of private aircraft DGA-8 through DGA-15.
A personal favorite is Benny Howard's DGA-6 Mister Mulligan of 1934. It was designed specifically for high-altitude long-range racing, but was good enough to win the unlimited closed-course Thompson race too - (with a little luck when Roscoe Turner blew a engine in 1935).
And it was the only racing design to evolve into a successful line of private aircraft DGA-8 through DGA-15.
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As I always understood it, the 747 suffered from being underpowered in its youth, and its sheer size with the market the way it was at the time meant that the DC-10 looked like the more sensible choice for airlines for quite a few years. However the 747 slowly worked it's kinks out, and the DC-10 suffered some high-profile negative publicity towards the end of the '70s. The result was that the 747 became something of a sleeper success.
I also think the A300 deserves an honourable mention for being the first high-capacity twinjet. While it didn't corner the market on its own, it became the rough blueprint for later workhorses like the 767 and 777 and the birth of ETOPS.
I also think the A300 deserves an honourable mention for being the first high-capacity twinjet. While it didn't corner the market on its own, it became the rough blueprint for later workhorses like the 767 and 777 and the birth of ETOPS.
Found this thread now - I am missing Me 162 in the list - the first rocket propelled fighter which seen the action. I've read a book dedicated to this airplane and it was one of the most fascinating stories about aviation ever.
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If you include lighter-than-air craft in your list (you should!) then the Montgolfier Brothers and their flight take and set precedence over everyone and everything! 1783.
If you are only interested in heavier-than-air machines then Sir George Cayley's Gliders were the first to carry a human aloft, first a boy then a man. He also laid down the basic principals of aerodynamics, setting a VERY important precedent! How can you exclude the first heavier than air flying machines?! 1843-1853 approx.
If you are only interested in powered heavier-than-air machines there is substantial evidence that some powered but not necessarily "sustained" or "controlled" flights DID occur before the Wrights, Ader being a good candidate.
Why the Me 262 rather than the Heinkel He 178 which is generally accepted as the first jet to fly? If you list it because it was the first jet fighter into service, then surely you should include the first jet bomber into service, the first jet helicopter and the first jet airliner into service, and I am incredulous that you have not included the Comet! Yes it had problems but it was still the first into service. The DC10 had problems, does that mean it's not a wide body?!
Moreover, the Comet had Reduxed windows and without this process (invented by Norman de Bruyn at Duxford) then jet airliners would have been incomplete and little use!
If you are only interested in heavier-than-air machines then Sir George Cayley's Gliders were the first to carry a human aloft, first a boy then a man. He also laid down the basic principals of aerodynamics, setting a VERY important precedent! How can you exclude the first heavier than air flying machines?! 1843-1853 approx.
If you are only interested in powered heavier-than-air machines there is substantial evidence that some powered but not necessarily "sustained" or "controlled" flights DID occur before the Wrights, Ader being a good candidate.
Why the Me 262 rather than the Heinkel He 178 which is generally accepted as the first jet to fly? If you list it because it was the first jet fighter into service, then surely you should include the first jet bomber into service, the first jet helicopter and the first jet airliner into service, and I am incredulous that you have not included the Comet! Yes it had problems but it was still the first into service. The DC10 had problems, does that mean it's not a wide body?!
Moreover, the Comet had Reduxed windows and without this process (invented by Norman de Bruyn at Duxford) then jet airliners would have been incomplete and little use!
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ICT SLB
the vickers vimy was not the first plane to cross the atlantic. The NC4 was the first plane to cross the atlantic, thank you.
to the orginal poster, I think you should include the X15. And the B47.
the vickers vimy was not the first plane to cross the atlantic. The NC4 was the first plane to cross the atlantic, thank you.
to the orginal poster, I think you should include the X15. And the B47.
Which Air Force One?
The Convair 240 or the series of Boeings? Any USAF 'plane with the President aboard is Air Force One.
The Convair 240 or the series of Boeings? Any USAF 'plane with the President aboard is Air Force One.
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Composite aircraft construction
I note earlier in the thread someone cited a glass fibre glider as the pioneer of the present day composite structure and another cited the Mosquito.
You need to go much further back to 1919 to the Loughhead S-1. The procedure and technique was further developed for use in the Lockheed Vega series which began in 1926. The 1937 Clark/Fairchild Duramold process was a further refinement as was the similar Vidal process used for the fuselage of the wartime Canadian-built Anson Mk.V.
Not sure when this type of construction was first used for the mainplane.
M-63A3
You need to go much further back to 1919 to the Loughhead S-1. The procedure and technique was further developed for use in the Lockheed Vega series which began in 1926. The 1937 Clark/Fairchild Duramold process was a further refinement as was the similar Vidal process used for the fuselage of the wartime Canadian-built Anson Mk.V.
Not sure when this type of construction was first used for the mainplane.
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Glendalegoon, the NC4 did cross the Atlantic in a series of flights, a few months later Alcock and Brown's Vickers Vimy was the first non-stop flight across the North Atlantic.
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joy ride, glad you agree that the NC4 was the first plane to cross the atlantic. there is even a book about it called: FIRST ACROSS.
Subsequent flights were just that. IF memory serves, the vimy landed in a bog and could be considered a crash landing.
The NC4 is on display at the Pensacola (US NAVY) museum. It included a crew of US Navy and US coast guard personnel.
First is first. Nonstop was not the criteria.
Subsequent flights were just that. IF memory serves, the vimy landed in a bog and could be considered a crash landing.
The NC4 is on display at the Pensacola (US NAVY) museum. It included a crew of US Navy and US coast guard personnel.
First is first. Nonstop was not the criteria.
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Stepwilk in #8:
IMO is the Wright Flyer only(!) a first, where the oncoming worldwide developments made the aircraft useable. As example: The Danish flightpioneer Ellehammer is reported to be the first to use tilting in turns (during a flight event in Kiel, Germany) and in such small steps fuld the airplane develop until short before WW1 where huge steps was done!
The ME262 did NOT introduce the swept wing! It's wings rear edge is straight-lined and only the leading edge is slightly backswept!
The ME262 is NOT a fighter! It's a bomber-destroyer! It's four slow firing 30mm cannons weren't ideal for dogfights, as not the speed itself !
IMO isn't the 262 more innovative than other of the simultaneous jets :-|
The Junkers JU52 and the DC3 is much equivalent in structure and use and the Atlantic is the mainly difference between this two - Except from the remarkable American radials wich delivered +50% power and made it possible to build the DC3 with one lesser engine than the tri-motored Junkers.
Beside the DC3, PBY5 Catalina, Lockheed C130 Hercules, F15 and F-16 deserves mention for long servicetime!
IMO is the Wright Flyer only(!) a first, where the oncoming worldwide developments made the aircraft useable. As example: The Danish flightpioneer Ellehammer is reported to be the first to use tilting in turns (during a flight event in Kiel, Germany) and in such small steps fuld the airplane develop until short before WW1 where huge steps was done!
The ME262 did NOT introduce the swept wing! It's wings rear edge is straight-lined and only the leading edge is slightly backswept!
The ME262 is NOT a fighter! It's a bomber-destroyer! It's four slow firing 30mm cannons weren't ideal for dogfights, as not the speed itself !
IMO isn't the 262 more innovative than other of the simultaneous jets :-|
The Junkers JU52 and the DC3 is much equivalent in structure and use and the Atlantic is the mainly difference between this two - Except from the remarkable American radials wich delivered +50% power and made it possible to build the DC3 with one lesser engine than the tri-motored Junkers.
Beside the DC3, PBY5 Catalina, Lockheed C130 Hercules, F15 and F-16 deserves mention for long servicetime!
Last edited by Flybiker7000; 16th Dec 2014 at 18:01.
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I think as Stephan first asked this question very nearly four years ago, his article is likely done and published by now! 
However, how is Pobjoy's Comper Swift progressing back towards flight?
However, how is Pobjoy's Comper Swift progressing back towards flight?
