RAF Church Fenton 1971
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RAF Church Fenton 1971
Attached is (hopefully) a photograph of a somewhat battered Jet Provost, taken at RAF Church Fenton in 1971. The serial is not readable due to the angle but I wondered if any pruners know the history of this aircraft and how it ended up looking so sorry for itself so early in its career.
QuePee
QuePee
I didn't realise that there was a difference in leading edges. If it is a T4 then it could well have been quite late in life - they started in about 1960 and were all but withdrawn by the mid 70s.
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On 2 March1971 there was a mid air collision between a Jet Provost and a Percival Sea Prince. I do not know if this is the one.
ASN Aircraft accident 02-MAR-1971 BAC Percival Jet Provost T4 XW300
1972 | 1937 | Flight Archive
ASN Aircraft accident 02-MAR-1971 BAC Percival Jet Provost T4 XW300
1972 | 1937 | Flight Archive
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JP Church Fenton
F##k Me... I was stationed there then (with my Dad) and remember it well! We used to play with it and pretend to fly the thing!!...(only 12yrs old at the the time!) I think it was a fire practice tool actually, but accept correction.
Whilst on about Fenton, anybody remember Flight Sargeant Harry Williams Alias: Bill Williams Might have been Sargeant at the time but whatever! Think he was in charge of the Mess???? (Or maybe Barred from it
Any feed back would be brilliant
Whilst on about Fenton, anybody remember Flight Sargeant Harry Williams Alias: Bill Williams Might have been Sargeant at the time but whatever! Think he was in charge of the Mess???? (Or maybe Barred from it
Any feed back would be brilliant
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Not the 1971 crash, I'm afraid. I was, sadly, involved in the aftermath of that accident and the damage to the JP was far more severe than in this photo. All 3 crew (2 in the JP and the Sea Prince pilot) were lost.
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Yorky Towers - I was at Church Fenton 71-72. Which Mess was he involved with? There were 2 Officers Messes which, with great originality, were titled No 1 Mess (for station staff, QFIs, UAS and a few others) and No 2 Mess (for students),one Sgts Mess and one Airmens Mess.
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The JP collision with a Sea Prince involved XW300, a Jet Provost T5A. The photo is a T4 and definitely not a T5. Just for the record the Sea Prince was WP312.
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XS220 3 FTS Sold scrap 18.12.70 West Bromwich ? probably heavy landing or overstress so beyond economical repair.
Not sure if it is this one could be an ex maintenance airframe.
Good website could put a request on the guest book ? ::: rafchurchfenton.org.uk :::
Not sure if it is this one could be an ex maintenance airframe.
Good website could put a request on the guest book ? ::: rafchurchfenton.org.uk :::
Last edited by T-21; 4th Jan 2009 at 08:57.
The T.3 had a gusset fillet near the wing root.
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Speechless Two. I remember Lt Cdr Dunbar Dempsey well - a very professional, approachable and friendly man whose loss was very keenly felt at Church Fenton. I was slightly involved in the BoI and part of the follow-up - it was a very sad task.
The Sea Prince was usually referred to colloquially as 'The Admiral's Barge' although why any Admiral needed a 'Barge' in the middle of North Yorkshire was often debated! I fact, I seem to recall that it was used as a general 'hack' and David DD would often fly Naval students back to their home bases at weekends as well as his QFI duties.
The Sea Prince was usually referred to colloquially as 'The Admiral's Barge' although why any Admiral needed a 'Barge' in the middle of North Yorkshire was often debated! I fact, I seem to recall that it was used as a general 'hack' and David DD would often fly Naval students back to their home bases at weekends as well as his QFI duties.
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Beagle is correct about the leading edge fillets. They were on the pre-production batch of Mk 3s, 5 off, IIRC. I flew them at Rissington in 60/61. All the production airframes that went to Syerston had straight LEs. I don't know why they took them off -something to do with the stall or the spin I think. The marked difference in handling was that you could pull the LERX version deep into the stall and it still kept turning. On the other kind if you pulled hard the stall was abrupt and you stopped pitching straight away.
Dick
Dick
Dick - you may be able to confirm/deny a tale I heard about the early T5?
It seems that 2 prototypes were delivered to A&AEE, one of which had a much more powerful engine than the later production standard T5. Described to me as a 'Dominie engine' and it certainly pre-dated the later Strikemaster. Allegedly it went like stink - but did it really exist and, if so, what happened to it?
It seems that 2 prototypes were delivered to A&AEE, one of which had a much more powerful engine than the later production standard T5. Described to me as a 'Dominie engine' and it certainly pre-dated the later Strikemaster. Allegedly it went like stink - but did it really exist and, if so, what happened to it?
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Wrecks and Relics, 4th edition. August 1974.
XN638 ex. 6.FTS SOC 18th December 1969. To Church Fenton dump.
XP632 ex. CAW SOC 8th May 1972. To Church Fenton dump.
XR680 ex. CFS SOC 8th May 1972. To Church Fenton dump.
As the date quoted is 1971, it looks more likely to be XN638.
Ciarain.
XN638 ex. 6.FTS SOC 18th December 1969. To Church Fenton dump.
XP632 ex. CAW SOC 8th May 1972. To Church Fenton dump.
XR680 ex. CFS SOC 8th May 1972. To Church Fenton dump.
As the date quoted is 1971, it looks more likely to be XN638.
Ciarain.
Check this site out for all thing JP history related: Jet Provost heaven - The Jet Provost introduction
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Thanks to Kieron Kirk for providing some potential serials. The photograph was actually taken in May 1971 and close examination of the original print seems to indicate that the serial begins XN5 or XN6. This with the other info you provided seems to clinch it as XN638.
The kind folks at the RAF Church Fenton website were unable to positively identify it.
Thanks again.
The kind folks at the RAF Church Fenton website were unable to positively identify it.
Thanks again.
Gentleman Aviator
Another key to identifying it as a T4 is the aerodynamic balance "horn" on the rudder. As the T4 (the only type of JP I ever flew for curious reasons!) was capable of much greater IAS - 'twas one hot ship for a trainer at low level! - the "horn" reduced feedback forces from the (manual) rudder at high IAS. Still b%%dy stiff though!
The JP5 entered service as the T Mk 5. In 1974, the avionic upgrade programme for the JP3 and JP5 began; out went the prehistoric Eureka DME receiver, single UHF and the excellent G4 compass and in came a VOR-ILS, civil DME, CL6 compass and an extra VHF radio (I think?); this was the -A upgrade. All remaining JP3s and JP5s were converted to 3A and 5A standard. No such modification was ever carried out on the JP4.
The JPs at Finningley (for half-wing half-brain training), with extra tip tanks, no moustache fairings and no concrete wing leading edges then became JP5s.
There was NEVER an 'official' Jet Provost T Mk 5B. It's a spotter's myth (as is 'Phantom F3' for the Phantom F4J(UK)).
One wacky idea for ME training was to include an exhaust deflector and twin 'throttles' in the JP, so that single engine failure could be simulated with reduced performance and a substantial yaw moment. Fortunately this barking mad idea never flew....
And ALL Jet Provosts had the horn balanced rudder! Even the original T Mk 1.
The JPs at Finningley (for half-wing half-brain training), with extra tip tanks, no moustache fairings and no concrete wing leading edges then became JP5s.
There was NEVER an 'official' Jet Provost T Mk 5B. It's a spotter's myth (as is 'Phantom F3' for the Phantom F4J(UK)).
One wacky idea for ME training was to include an exhaust deflector and twin 'throttles' in the JP, so that single engine failure could be simulated with reduced performance and a substantial yaw moment. Fortunately this barking mad idea never flew....
And ALL Jet Provosts had the horn balanced rudder! Even the original T Mk 1.
For Jenks and Beagle; the Mk1,-AOBU, resides at NWeald,along with Mk4/T.52(XS228) G-PROV,and XS230/G-VIVM (Mk4/5)(now `resting`).
At a glance differences Mk3-4- longer pitot support strut,sawn-off jet-pipe,and larger cooling ducts on top of the fuselage for the bigger engine(except on G-PROV).
XS230 was at B-D when I was there `68-72` and later to `75/6,as Bob `Ace`Cole was the project pilot during it`s spinning trials,I don`t recall -XS231,the other 4/5 prototype there during my time. 230/VIVM has all the `funny` bits,strakes,chines,stall deflectors/smoothers,and `concrete`,and used to fly with tips when it was at ITPS.
At a glance differences Mk3-4- longer pitot support strut,sawn-off jet-pipe,and larger cooling ducts on top of the fuselage for the bigger engine(except on G-PROV).
XS230 was at B-D when I was there `68-72` and later to `75/6,as Bob `Ace`Cole was the project pilot during it`s spinning trials,I don`t recall -XS231,the other 4/5 prototype there during my time. 230/VIVM has all the `funny` bits,strakes,chines,stall deflectors/smoothers,and `concrete`,and used to fly with tips when it was at ITPS.