Vickers Varsity
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This thread brings back many memories for me. I was an apprentice at Cosford 1970-1972 and managed to talk my way into numerous night training flights on the Varsity with my then Flight Commander Flt. Lt. Pete Cox, (wonder where he is now, was a C130 driver on a ground tour).
He seemed to know I wanted to fly and never refused me a flight nor did he ever fail to answer one of my many questions. Wonderful nights looking out at the stars and listening to those mighty pistons doing their work. It was certainly the inspiration that made me want to take up flying at a later date.
Many years later, I had a girlfriend whose brother was killed in one that was going to an airshow, as I recall, it had about 11 folks on board. The inquiry found rotten fuel pump seals as far as I can remember as the cause for the engine failure. If anyone can point me in the right direction where the report can be found I would be most appreciative.
Thanks
KW
He seemed to know I wanted to fly and never refused me a flight nor did he ever fail to answer one of my many questions. Wonderful nights looking out at the stars and listening to those mighty pistons doing their work. It was certainly the inspiration that made me want to take up flying at a later date.
Many years later, I had a girlfriend whose brother was killed in one that was going to an airshow, as I recall, it had about 11 folks on board. The inquiry found rotten fuel pump seals as far as I can remember as the cause for the engine failure. If anyone can point me in the right direction where the report can be found I would be most appreciative.
Thanks
KW
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Report here Air Accidents Investigation: 2/1986 G-BDFT
The first editor of "Flypast" was sadly killed on board . I have every edition of "Flypast".
The first editor of "Flypast" was sadly killed on board . I have every edition of "Flypast".
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Vickers Varsity
One further memory dragged back, Only tenuous connection with aircraft. At Bishops Court in 1952 there was a Varsity Sgt pilot who was reputed to ex Winco, who had allegedly joined an Ark Royal circuit in a Lincoln, put wheels and flaps down and lined up on finals, whereupon they pushed to Sea Furys over the side. I have no idea whether this was true, but it was a good story.
The history of WJ897 and the accident which befell it is here http://wj897-lapg.moonfruit.com, along with 5 pages of photos including internal and external. It's the 25th anniversary this year, we've set up this website as a memorial.
As you'll see if you visit we're very short of in-service photographs and in particular reminiscences so please contact us if you have anything you'd like to share.
As you'll see if you visit we're very short of in-service photographs and in particular reminiscences so please contact us if you have anything you'd like to share.
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Vickers Varsity WF327
Hi, I'm a new girl on the block, looking for anyone who may remember the night this Varsity crashed and / or anyone who may remember my dad. Crash date 13/03/54 , site Bingham. My thanks to Don Bryans of MACR for this info.
My dad, Sgt George Cheesley was the pilot, sadly all crew were lost.
I was born some 5 months after this so never knew him.
Thanks for your help
Pam/Wendimum
My dad, Sgt George Cheesley was the pilot, sadly all crew were lost.
I was born some 5 months after this so never knew him.
Thanks for your help
Pam/Wendimum
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Just found this thread, so I'm coming in on it late.
My 1st posting, as a still 'under age', but qualified as SAC Air Radar Mechanic, Boy Entrant was to BCBS Lindholme in May 54. I was there until Oct 56 so I spent many hours on and in the beloved Varsity.
One job I remember was when the Holme Moss TV Transmitter opened, it was discovered that it operated on or near the frequency of our Gee-H transmitters! The population of Doncaster could monitor our flights by watching the interference on their shiny new TV sets. So of course the RAF had to change frequencies, not the BBC
This change was quite involved and included changing the aerials as well as fitting re-tuned transmitters. The fine-tuning of which was done in flight! This meant us working at altitude, swapping the transmitter, which weighed over a hundredweight, wearing an oxygen mask with a portable oxygen bottle stuck down the front of ones battle dress jacket.
What would 'ealth & safety make of it today?
In general I think that most ground tradesmen liked the old 'Pig' as it was a spacious a/c and easy to work on. We had two mixed squadrons at BCBS, the 'other' a/c were Lincoln's and with the Varsity’s being brand new the contrast was great.
One extraordinary thing about the Varsity, it had the most complicated intercom system of any a/c I ever worked on. As a trainer for Pilots, Nav's and Wop's, in each position the instructor could switch the intercom so that he and the student had a 'private circuit' that couldn't be heard by and distract the other crew members.
This intercom used numerous '102 Relays', in general it was a reliable system, but when it did go wrong, problem determination was a bit complicated and often needed a engine ground run to produce some vibration and the intercom fault condition. The Engine Fitter’s seemed to enjoy this. I remember having to fly on a sortie on one occasion because the problem could not be replicated, even with engine runs.
At least we ground crew had that option available to us on Varsity's, a luxury not open to me in later years on Canberra's and V-Bombers. I always hated putting the infamous 'Ground Tested Found Serviceable' into a F700. I knew that the aircrew weren’t idiots and something had gone wrong.
As to colour schemes, I don’t remember any day-glow on the Lindholme a/c during my time there. This could just be the result of my advancing years.
In '58 at Orange, France, with the move of the RAF Liaison Party from Istres, I installed a Eureka VII, a Watton Varsity calibrated this and I flew on the calibration flights to see how 'my Eureka' performed. Its performance was compromised by the 'shadow' created by Mont Ventoux! It wasn't anything I could fix
Please excuse this old man’s rambling.
My 1st posting, as a still 'under age', but qualified as SAC Air Radar Mechanic, Boy Entrant was to BCBS Lindholme in May 54. I was there until Oct 56 so I spent many hours on and in the beloved Varsity.
One job I remember was when the Holme Moss TV Transmitter opened, it was discovered that it operated on or near the frequency of our Gee-H transmitters! The population of Doncaster could monitor our flights by watching the interference on their shiny new TV sets. So of course the RAF had to change frequencies, not the BBC
This change was quite involved and included changing the aerials as well as fitting re-tuned transmitters. The fine-tuning of which was done in flight! This meant us working at altitude, swapping the transmitter, which weighed over a hundredweight, wearing an oxygen mask with a portable oxygen bottle stuck down the front of ones battle dress jacket.
What would 'ealth & safety make of it today?
In general I think that most ground tradesmen liked the old 'Pig' as it was a spacious a/c and easy to work on. We had two mixed squadrons at BCBS, the 'other' a/c were Lincoln's and with the Varsity’s being brand new the contrast was great.
One extraordinary thing about the Varsity, it had the most complicated intercom system of any a/c I ever worked on. As a trainer for Pilots, Nav's and Wop's, in each position the instructor could switch the intercom so that he and the student had a 'private circuit' that couldn't be heard by and distract the other crew members.
This intercom used numerous '102 Relays', in general it was a reliable system, but when it did go wrong, problem determination was a bit complicated and often needed a engine ground run to produce some vibration and the intercom fault condition. The Engine Fitter’s seemed to enjoy this.
I remember having to fly on a sortie on one occasion because the problem could not be replicated, even with engine runs. At least we ground crew had that option available to us on Varsity's, a luxury not open to me in later years on Canberra's and V-Bombers. I always hated putting the infamous 'Ground Tested Found Serviceable' into a F700. I knew that the aircrew weren’t idiots and something had gone wrong.
As to colour schemes, I don’t remember any day-glow on the Lindholme a/c during my time there. This could just be the result of my advancing years.
In '58 at Orange, France, with the move of the RAF Liaison Party from Istres, I installed a Eureka VII, a Watton Varsity calibrated this and I flew on the calibration flights to see how 'my Eureka' performed. Its performance was compromised by the 'shadow' created by Mont Ventoux! It wasn't anything I could fix
Please excuse this old man’s rambling.
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Re Don Selway and his Varsity
Hello Tim,
Excuse my writing to you 'Out of the Blue' as it were. I am Don Selway's youngest brother Adrian. I remember his Varsity well and visited it many times when we went to Barrington on family visits. He fought hard to keep the Duxford Aviation Society on its feet and running well and to get Concord on to the field at Duxford even though the runway had already been shortened. He loved his Varsity, used to call it 'Piglet'. I have several photos of it and one signed by all the crew. Sadly the plane was badly damaged in the 'Great Storm' that swept across southern parts; the wind was so high the plane was lifted and the tail was swept against a mooring post suffering serious damage.
Brother Don was a great chap and a very good artist specializing in aviation and wild-life.
I hope this provides a little more information for your forum.
Regards,
Adrian
Excuse my writing to you 'Out of the Blue' as it were. I am Don Selway's youngest brother Adrian. I remember his Varsity well and visited it many times when we went to Barrington on family visits. He fought hard to keep the Duxford Aviation Society on its feet and running well and to get Concord on to the field at Duxford even though the runway had already been shortened. He loved his Varsity, used to call it 'Piglet'. I have several photos of it and one signed by all the crew. Sadly the plane was badly damaged in the 'Great Storm' that swept across southern parts; the wind was so high the plane was lifted and the tail was swept against a mooring post suffering serious damage.
Brother Don was a great chap and a very good artist specializing in aviation and wild-life.
I hope this provides a little more information for your forum.
Regards,
Adrian
I recall being in thick fog going north on the A15 (yup: Cranwell-Lincoln for the evening (and night if lucky!)) when we were amazed to be stopped by the traffic lights that protected the Waddo undershoot - and even more amazed when out of the fog rumbled a Varsity - but all expained by th "Blind Landing Experimental Unit (may have been B.L.E.U.) - its 45 years ago
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Varsity
Worked on Varsitys at Saint Mawgan on Station Flight. WF330 was one, can't remember the other. They were not there simultaneously. I enjoyed working on them as an Airframe mechanic and fitter. Quite a few times flew with them to places such as Langar and Thorney Island, sometimes in the bomb aimer's position and some times up front, holding throttles forward on take off. A real lady to be in. Ours was VIP for AOC 19 Group.
25th Anniversary Varsity WJ897
Today marked the 25th anniversary of the loss of WJ897 along with 11 out of the 14 on board. A number of relatives and friends gathered at the site to mark the occasion. The local TV news showed a brief clip of the Varsity in flight at an unidentified airshow as part of their coverage of the event.
We'll be posting photos and new links to the website as soon as we can.
We'll be posting photos and new links to the website as soon as we can.
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Nice to hear from you Adrian. Don and his beloved Varsity were a great loss. It was a real pleasure to see him throw the old girl around the sky at Old Warden - he performed with much more gusto than any of the RAF demonstrations I saw and it was nice to see that the lumbering old varsity was a sprightly performer in the right hands.
It's a great shame that the aircraft was damaged at Duxford and particularly sad that it has often been almost overlooked there - especially when the beautiful MRF aircraft was shamelessly destroyed (a crime that I will always curse Duxford for). I keep my fingers crossed that I'll get a winning Lottery ticket one day and fulfil my ambition to get one of the surviving old beasts rebuilt into flying trim!
It's a great shame that the aircraft was damaged at Duxford and particularly sad that it has often been almost overlooked there - especially when the beautiful MRF aircraft was shamelessly destroyed (a crime that I will always curse Duxford for). I keep my fingers crossed that I'll get a winning Lottery ticket one day and fulfil my ambition to get one of the surviving old beasts rebuilt into flying trim!
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Good cutaway drawing of the Varsity here flight aircrew | aircrew trainer | dunlop mk | 1950 | 0624 | Flight Archive
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Hi Folks,
I just found the site tonight after googling for Varsity, I remember flying in these lovely old planes for air experience flights at RAF Finningly in 1972 with the ATC we had two flights which lasted a good few hours eaxg as we went up the east coast to Aberdeen over to Inverness and back down the west coast, the pilot even detoured to take us over our home town of Coatbridge, I'd always fancied skydiving but seeing how small everything looked from 10,000 feet made me change my mind for some reason, previously the highest I'd been would have 2 or 3,000 feet in the Chipmunks at RAF Turnhouse .
Looking at the pictures of the Varsities on here one thing seems to be missing from the parled aircraft and that's a stand under the tail to support it on the ground.... IIRC all the Varsities at Finningly had them as the tail dropped when you went into the fusealage as the C of G was forward of the main wing spar, you had to let the pilot know when airborne if you where crossing over to the rear of the aircraft or coming back as it had an effect on the handling I also seem to remember that the spar got fairly hot...
I was only sad that I never got a flight in the Domminies based at Finningly but that privellage was reserved for the senior cadets....
Peter
I just found the site tonight after googling for Varsity, I remember flying in these lovely old planes for air experience flights at RAF Finningly in 1972 with the ATC we had two flights which lasted a good few hours eaxg as we went up the east coast to Aberdeen over to Inverness and back down the west coast, the pilot even detoured to take us over our home town of Coatbridge
, I'd always fancied skydiving but seeing how small everything looked from 10,000 feet made me change my mind for some reason, previously the highest I'd been would have 2 or 3,000 feet in the Chipmunks at RAF Turnhouse .Looking at the pictures of the Varsities on here one thing seems to be missing from the parled aircraft and that's a stand under the tail to support it on the ground.... IIRC all the Varsities at Finningly had them as the tail dropped when you went into the fusealage as the C of G was forward of the main wing spar, you had to let the pilot know when airborne if you where crossing over to the rear of the aircraft or coming back as it had an effect on the handling
I also seem to remember that the spar got fairly hot...I was only sad that I never got a flight in the Domminies based at Finningly but that privellage was reserved for the senior cadets....
Peter
a stand under the tail to support it on the ground.... IIRC all the Varsities at Finningly had them as the tail dropped when you went into the fusealage as the C of G was forward of the main wing spar,
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The tale I heard was Dizzy Addicot Vickers test pilot , flew a Valliant with flaps and wheels down lined up onto our latest carrier of the time in the Bay of Biscay panic ensued and he got a terse radio recall from Vickers and a subsequent "flying gear off tie and jacket and shoes on No coffee meeting " also recall walking from the inner to the outer aircraft stands in front of now terminal 2 in thick fog at L.H.R. in the early 60s got half way across when the throb of piston engines were heard and the Smiths Experimental Blind Landing Varsity trundled past ,it was the only a/c that moved that day and they had free use to carry out blind landings on the runway.The fog was so thick it wasn't safe to drive our vans
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23 MU Varsity
I hitched a lift in the 23 mu varsity from Aldergrove to Leeming in 1974
after a tour on v.s.a.f. I seem to remember that not long after that flight
she was flown to Germany for fire crew training. She also appeared on the
front cover of Air Clues for, I thought,her being the last varsity in service?
Anyway that was the best and most entertainig flight I have ever had for
several reasons!!!! (rhubarb rhubarb) (pie!)
Thanks for the memories from one happy airman.
after a tour on v.s.a.f. I seem to remember that not long after that flight
she was flown to Germany for fire crew training. She also appeared on the
front cover of Air Clues for, I thought,her being the last varsity in service?
Anyway that was the best and most entertainig flight I have ever had for
several reasons!!!! (rhubarb rhubarb) (pie!)
Thanks for the memories from one happy airman.
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papajuliet
Could that be the same Sqdn Ldr Clarke who flew me back to Leeming from Aldergrove in '74/ He was a Flt Lt then. The nav' was a Scot whose name escapes me. (see my earlier thread)
Could that be the same Sqdn Ldr Clarke who flew me back to Leeming from Aldergrove in '74/ He was a Flt Lt then. The nav' was a Scot whose name escapes me. (see my earlier thread)
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Mention has been made of ease of tipping Varsities, I believe it is being confused with the Handley Page Marathon. Nearest I came to tipping a Varsity was 8 aft and only the captain forward and didn't he swear at us when the nose wheel lifted. It went down again with quite a thump as we scattered away from the door.
Pom Pax - dead right!!
Apart from that peculiarity, the Marathon had a general C of G problem such that it carried bags of sand under the pilot's seats.
Even so, it flew very tail down in the cruise. Its 'best' feature was the 'confusability' of the flap and gear levers leading to several gear retractions while on the ground. This, if nothing else, lead to its relatively short in-service life.
Apologies for thread creep.
Apart from that peculiarity, the Marathon had a general C of G problem such that it carried bags of sand under the pilot's seats.
Even so, it flew very tail down in the cruise. Its 'best' feature was the 'confusability' of the flap and gear levers leading to several gear retractions while on the ground. This, if nothing else, lead to its relatively short in-service life.Apologies for thread creep.