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Old 24th Mar 2008, 22:02   #1 (permalink)
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Thumbs down 2 FTS Syerston Jet Provost colourschemes

Hello

One of my acquaintances has recently purchased a Jet Provost T.3, and is hoping to complete it in the colours it wore with 2 FTS at Syerston in the early 1960s.
The aircraft in question, XM478, was coded 21, and was almost certainly finished in the silver grey colourscheme with yellow areas on the nose, tail section and outer wings. There are a variety of images available on the net, but none which show XM478.
Also required is a colour image of the 2 FTS badge, the dimensions of said badge, and advise on how to accurately position the badge on the nose of the aircraft.
If anyone can come up with something other than what intensive web searches can provide, my colleague would be extremely grateful.

TIA

HB
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Old 24th Mar 2008, 22:13   #2 (permalink)
 
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I assume you have seen this one as 33 of 1FTS ? Keith.

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Old 24th Mar 2008, 23:45   #3 (permalink)
 
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On the line at Syerston in 1961. Coded 43. No yellow on the nose but a band on the fin (not crossing onto the rudder).



The Syerston badge should be on the net somewhere - try the RAF Marham site.

Hope this helps.


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Old 25th Mar 2008, 13:28   #4 (permalink)

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I trained (?) at Syerston in '65-'66. No yellow aircraft then, all silver and dayglo. PM me with an email address and I'll try and get some pics to you, including the crest.
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Old 25th Mar 2008, 21:53   #5 (permalink)
 
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Thumbs up

Bee, that`s a Mk4 anyway,and I don`t recall the jets having red flashes in `63, but `Oldtimers` is creeping in... Anyway, flew `XDL/478 in `98/99.
See `www.jetprovostheaven.com
Syc...
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Old 26th Mar 2008, 00:09   #6 (permalink)
 
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sycamore
Yes, I know it's a T.4 but the original question was about the Syerston JP colour scheme in the early '60s. Pic shows a Syerston JP in the early '60s therefore is apt. Don't know about '63 as I was, by then, in RAFG waiting for the Russians to roll across the plains.


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Old 26th Mar 2008, 10:59   #7 (permalink)
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Hello everyone

Thanks very much for these replies, and particularly the photos showing the red bands. My Italian friend was just about to pick up a yellow paint pot. Now he is busy revisiting his research. It seems that the RAF are quite strict in their criteria for the granting of approvals to carry an ex-military scheme: the colourscheme must be accurate, and it must reflect the service history of the aircraft.

Anyway, he is extremely grateful, and very surprised by the level of interest shown in his project.

HB
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Old 27th Mar 2008, 12:12   #8 (permalink)
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Hello...I'm back...

Given the variety of colourschemes now potentially available for XM478, is it possible to tie down the periods during which the colourschemes mutated ?

Thanks to everyone again for their invaluable assistance.

HB
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Old 27th Mar 2008, 15:16   #9 (permalink)

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Hi again HB. Since the RAF are particular about the colour scheme, perhaps the Air Historical Branch could help? They are a part of the RAF after all. Failing that, try either the RAF Museum at Hendon or the Imperial War Museum. As I said earlier, I know the colour scheme I sent you was valid May '65 to May '66. Whether 478 was there at that time I can't say.
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Old 27th Mar 2008, 16:42   #10 (permalink)
 
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The IWM would refer you straight to the AHB.

Just a thought; when you have the best approximation of what the machine would have looked like at that time, why not send a picture of the proposal to the Air Force for approval. If they say that it doesn't match their records they may be amenable to sharing them so that it can be right
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Old 27th Mar 2008, 19:09   #11 (permalink)
 
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I flew XN557 a lot in '61. It was a CFS aircraft, but I can't recall any difference from the Mk 3s I flew at Syerston in '60.

XN557 colour scheme was: Tip tanks - dayglo. Wing outer panel, not ailerons, from the centerline of the roundel outward, top and bottom - dayglo. Ailerons, top and bottom - silver. Flaps, top and bottom - dayglo. Inner wing - silver (with black walk strip on root top). Rear fuselage, aft of point where fin merged with fuselage, but not including any fin or the tailcone - dayglo.Remainder of fuselage, not nosecone -silver. Nosecone, swept back and under to a point between the air intakes- dayglo. Tail - silver. Tailcone - metal. Don't forget the black anti-glare on the nose.

Dick
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Old 27th Mar 2008, 19:22   #12 (permalink)
 
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Beeayeate's picture is spot on for the early sixties, it matters not that the picture is of a T4, T3's were in the same scheme. The picture does not convey the exact shade of fluorescent dayglo red/orange, however. But change the code letters to 21, and everything else would be right, down to the small yellow band on the fin.

I stand to be corrected, but as far as I know the JP3's never wore yellow; for certain the vast majority were delivered with dayglo - the markings of the old Airfix Jet Provost kit , showing it with yellow bands, may have perpetuated the yellow bands myth.

Paint dayglo gave way to dayglo strips, not such an attractive colour scheme, in the early to mid sixties. The first JP in the red and whire colours appeared in 1968, in the following years those that were not retired were repainted.

As for getting the colour scheme exactly right, I'd suggest looking at aircraft modelling sources, things like Decal sheets sold by Hannants .

If your friend does choose the dayglo scheme, he will have made a a very rare and eye-catching choice, I can't think of anything flying in those colours, not in the UK anyway.
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Old 27th Mar 2008, 21:07   #13 (permalink)
 
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Hersham,

Please check your PMs
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Old 28th Mar 2008, 12:10   #14 (permalink)
 
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As I recall, only the Mk 4's had the fleet number on a yellow background. One "Hoss" Innes used to demonstrate 36 to great effect.

A FTC contest for the then new paint scheme for the Command, was won by Terry Hall, a QFI at Syerston.
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Old 28th Mar 2008, 15:34   #15 (permalink)
 
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I've found a photo of us in an early publicity shot - winter of 60/61 I would guess. XN465, 548 and 550 and XM346. All look brand new, and are in the colour scheme I gave above. No CFS crest yet, and no fleet numbers, but 465 is coded RU and 346 as RR.

Dick

And there were one or two pre-production Mk 3s at CFS in 59/60, with LERX that were returned to the factory. Did they have yellow bands on silver?

Last edited by Dick Whittingham; 28th Mar 2008 at 15:41. Reason: Remembered more
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Old 2nd Apr 2008, 20:55   #16 (permalink)
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Back again

Please can we examine what has been established so far - this includes PMs.

It is becoming highly likely that XM478 was not, in fact, a Syerston machine, so the title of this thread is incorrect. It is probable that this was initial confusion engendered by the XM378/478 situation.

The available research material places XM478 with:
'17'/1 FTS, 1970
'104'/7 FTS, RAF Church Fenton, 1983
'33'/1 FTS, RAF Linton-on-Ouse, 1984-1989

It would appear highly unlikely that the aircraft was ever yellow/aluminium.
My colleague is therefore left with two choices of red highlighting: the dayglow red areas initially painted on various areas, or the dayglow bands applied by dayglow tape. I would like confirmation that the dayglow paint highlighting was replaced by the dayglow taped bands.

My colleague is very grateful for the response. He is pursuing a similar line of inquiry for his former French military CAP-10. HIs other aircraft, being Italian, are easier for him to research.

Thanks again

HB
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Old 8th Apr 2008, 19:06   #17 (permalink)
 
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Syerston

Bit off the JP thread but I hoped someone with Syerston Connections might be able to throw a little light on a dark days happenings. Time mid fifties, ambling back from the outside bogs at my infant school eyes clapped on the sky as usual ( We lived at the end of RR Hucknall runway so there was always something flying) I know not why but I swung to the west and looked high to see a growing fireball developing with 'smoke' trails falling off in all directions. At the age of 7 I only exibited a mild curiosity. Many years later I tripped across a report of 2 x Vampire T11's destroyed over Nottinghamshire in a mid air and suffered one of those ha ha! moments. Were they from Syerston? Flew many times from Syerston with 644 643? GS can't remember the No exactly as we traipsed between the two schools for years.
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Old 9th Apr 2008, 17:50   #18 (permalink)

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Prangster, there was a Vulcan accident in 1958, it's on the military site. Don't know how to post a link, but a search for "Vulcan" and Syerston" will bring it up. (Sorry for thread creep, but I felt it was worth an answer)
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Old 10th Apr 2008, 09:38   #19 (permalink)
 
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Vampire collision - 1958. Not Syerston, possibly Swinderby. Upset my wife, who saw shock horror headlines. I was miles away at Thorney Is flying Vampire NF10s.

Vulcan - rolling g overstress in display, wing skin began to strip.

Dick
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Old 10th Apr 2008, 10:03   #20 (permalink)
 
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The Vulcan was the RR Conway test bed. It was overstressed as Dick mentioned, at an open day in front of a large crowd. There's a famous picture of it breaking up. I found a piece of it just embedded in the ground on the airfield in about 1985.
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