Mid-engined P51 project, 1945?
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Mid-engined P51 project, 1945?
Reading a book from an eng (Eric Clutton) who designed his own homebuilt during the middle of the last century, I saw a section about RR trying to make a mid engined P51 from the bits left over after one P51 was munched by another in a queue for take-off plus the tail from one that was dropped on the nose whilst unloading from the docks at Liverpool.
Anyone got anything on this?
Ta.
http://www.geocities.com/fredplane/click.htm is his homebuilt
Anyone got anything on this?
Ta.
http://www.geocities.com/fredplane/click.htm is his homebuilt
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I recall seeing a photograph of a mid-engined P-51 - but it might take me a loooong time to find it. If my memory is to be believed the caption quoted Griffon engine and Hucknall.......
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There is a photograph of the machine on page 88 of Bill Gunston's 'Rolls Royce Aero Engines'
The quality is not very good, and I'm off to work soon, but I will try to scan the image and post it tomorrow, unless someone beats me to it!
The quality is not very good, and I'm off to work soon, but I will try to scan the image and post it tomorrow, unless someone beats me to it!
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I've just been reading "Allied Aircraft Piston Engines of World War II" by Graham White and it mentions it:
"If a little is good, then more must be better, right?? This was the philosophy behind a scheme to install the Griffon into the P-51. Unlike the Griffon conversion of the Spitfire, the Griffon-powered P-51 entailed a totally new design incorporating only the flying surfaces from the P-51. An all new fuselage featuring a mid-engine layout with the pilot sitting in front of the engine, a la P-39, driving a six-blade Rotol contra-rotating propeller would have made it a new aircraft"
"Since the Griffon P-51 was intended to be a flying test bed, there was never any intention of placing it into production. Substantial work had been completed with the project was cancelled for the usual reason during this time frame - gas turbine development"
"If a little is good, then more must be better, right?? This was the philosophy behind a scheme to install the Griffon into the P-51. Unlike the Griffon conversion of the Spitfire, the Griffon-powered P-51 entailed a totally new design incorporating only the flying surfaces from the P-51. An all new fuselage featuring a mid-engine layout with the pilot sitting in front of the engine, a la P-39, driving a six-blade Rotol contra-rotating propeller would have made it a new aircraft"
"Since the Griffon P-51 was intended to be a flying test bed, there was never any intention of placing it into production. Substantial work had been completed with the project was cancelled for the usual reason during this time frame - gas turbine development"
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No one sems to have commented on the CA (Australia) Griffon engined Mustang
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Whilst on the subject of Mustangs, was the Martin Baker MB-5 fighter look alike any kind of relation to the Mustang ?
This looks suspiciously like the Griffon powered Mustang spoken of...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin-Baker_MB5
There is also a persisting rumour that the Mustang was actually a design abandoned by the Nazis and sold to North American.
This looks suspiciously like the Griffon powered Mustang spoken of...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin-Baker_MB5
There is also a persisting rumour that the Mustang was actually a design abandoned by the Nazis and sold to North American.
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There is also a persisting rumour that the Mustang was actually a design abandoned by the Nazis and sold to North American.
The MB-5 had no relationship whatsoever with the 51. The fuselage in fact used a construction method patented by Martin Baker.
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There's an interesting example of "form follows function" Three independent designs that finish up looking the same.
I saw an MB5 at AMSDU at Wattisham, in 1950, I think. The fuselage as indeed an MB patent, interchangeable steel tubes built into a girder with unstressed cladding, Meant to survive battle damage better and be easier to repair.
I wonder how CA got 2,500hp through that small propeller?
Dick
I saw an MB5 at AMSDU at Wattisham, in 1950, I think. The fuselage as indeed an MB patent, interchangeable steel tubes built into a girder with unstressed cladding, Meant to survive battle damage better and be easier to repair.
I wonder how CA got 2,500hp through that small propeller?
Dick
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The CA-15 was fitted with a Griffon 61 rated at 1,540HP at take off (+12 lb boost), 2,035HP at 7,000 feet (+18 lb boost) and 1,820HP at 21,000 feet (+18 lb boost) and swinging a four blade Rotol compressed wood prop of 12 feet 6 inches diameter. In comparison some Spitfires fitted with the same mark Griffon had a four bladed prop as small as 10 feet 9 inches diameter.
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Sorry Brian, it just looked small and with a small chord. I suppose the aircraft is quite tall. I also suppose that earlier designs with ground clearance problems would, by the end of the piston era, have been using props with a high disc solidity - wide chord or 5 blades or contraprops
Dick
Dick
