I agree it does stand for what us armed forces do/done.
But remember there are more easier ways of reminding people of what we do/done for the nation.
perhaps putting the money toward those who are injured in them wars would be far more useful.
I think Falklands/Iraq/Afgan vetrens would be more pleased that money raised can go towards treatment for the men and women who are injured in these wars protecting our intrests.
I would love to see the Vulcan fly but at the cost she has incurred id rather see the money spent somewhere else.
every time i see the web page its asking for another 30 grand or what have you. But i think to myself 30 grand would go a long way for people who have had the limbs blown off in the Falklands/Iraq/Afgan. Or for family support for those husbands/wifes/children who have lost there loved ones
But that is my opinion.
so don't all jump on me at once
oh yeah i say bring back the Royal tournament
something to feel proud about.
the kimberleys good but havn't been there for a while though
I have to say that I am confused by your comments Sir.
In the begining, you agree that this air test is a flying display and go on state:
'A flying display is defined in the ANO as "any flying activity deliberately performed for the purposes of providing an exhibition or entertainment at an advertised event open to the public".'
Which is quite correct. Then you quote article 80 and state:
'Article 80 of the ANO applies to any flying event where it is advertised and open to the public. It does not apply to aircraft at such an event that are landing or taking off in accordance with normal aviation practice. I doubt if any court would find this first test flight to be normal aviation practice'
Which again, is correct of course. But when I ask you to confirm that the CAA will regard this air test as an air display, you state:
'No of course I cannot, only the CAA does the regarding and, ultimately, only the courts will decide.'
So may I ask you for your own opiniion then? Do you consider an air test (this air test) to be a flying display? Because every pilot I have spoken to does not. As you will know, an air display requires months of planning, organisation and an immense amount of work behind the scenes. An air test does not. The fact that several thousand people may well come to see the aircraft depart and land, DOES NOT constitute an air display. Not only that, it implies that the crew will have already received 'display authorisation' from the CAA. I'm not sure how that is possible unless the aircraft has already flown, and the display have been rehersed and performed infron of the relevany authorities.
That being so, I think it would have been more honest of Plemming (and others) to just say 'we would prefer not to have any spectators at the first flight' instead of publishing a whole load of tosh about it being illegal as per the CAA?
Maybe Dr Plemming would like to comment? or anyone from Bruntingthorpe?
Article 80 does not apply to a flying display which is private event, although it might have been advertised, as long as those present are there by invitation only. It must not be open to the general public, whether paying or not. This was made clear a zillion posts ago.
Cheers,
Trapper 69
PS - Winco said -
"That being so, I think it would have been more honest of Plemming (and others) to just say 'we would prefer not to have any spectators at the first flight' "
To quote that memorable fictitious Minister - "you may well say that, however I could not possibly comment.....!!!"
Don’t know if you’ve noticed, but whenever we get near to some significant event in the tortured life of XH-558, the grumpitude quotient seems to peak in the likes of The Winco and The Swinging Monkey. It’s kind of irritating, but I guess not terminal.
Ho hum
airsound.
PS How’s your Russian friend reacting to the imminent relaunching of the World’s Greatest Nuclear Bomber? No panic, I trust.
PPS. Winco, old bean, do you think you could do Dr Pleming the courtesy of spelling his name right?
airsound -
You know my feelings on the need for the media to be there, Essential invited guests inevitable. Project personnel vital. General public totally unnecessary and a huge distraction with possible health and safety issues.
This issue is guaranteed to provoke sincerely held views forcefully expressed on all aspects. It is like a dormant volcano - just waiting for a prod..........!!!!
My distant cousin, Colonel Ivor Bolokov, SovAF(retired) is not exactly quaking in his snow tipped flying boots at the prospect of this mighty piece of BRITISH engineering being resurrected. Despite his surreptitious efforts with a succession of corroding Bears, Bisons, Badgers and Blinders to do the same thing. They have all come to naught. This due to the absence of any Russian Federation equivalent of the National Lottery Heritage Fund. His last epistle was of the opinion that VTTS could not afford the Avtur needed to get XH558 more than 250km from base so Moscow was safe pro-tem.
Well, 'forget' & 'airsound' we'll have to agree to disagree...
The RNLI are REALLY public funded, but I don't reckon every lifeboat belongs to me or should invite me to every launch, despite my massive £4.00 a month.
As for the Vulcan, unless they've got invisibilty paint from the Americans, and fitted better than Halfords silencers on the jetpipes, this seems unlikely to go without notice - so the worthy public will probably get their fiver's worth of news, a fraction before the Vulcan To The Sky lot tell them anyway...
Airsound, you make a great pitch for the press which is completely opposite to all my dealings with them / you...if the Airbus had suffered a slight glitch and been delayed a day or two, and you'd been put up in a 'less than perfect' hotel in the meantime, I wonder how your feeling may have been altered ?!
As for someone mentioning " better a has been than a never wazza " I don't know who that was directed at, but the poster seems a plank & I'm very proud of my involvement with British military aircraft development, which went beyond taking happy-snaps...
One has to wonder if they have tied themselveds in such a financial knot with tv rights etc,that they are contracually obliged to allow only certain "guests" to the test flight.Such as those whose companies have made a vast contribution or individuals who are fortunate enough to be able to donate a substantial amount,or,tv production companies who paid above the odds for the rights to cover the test.I understand that money is a VERY important thing for a project such as this,but many of us have done what we can with the little cash we can spare and a great many helped involuntary via the lottery funding."Don't bite the hand that feeds you" is a phrase that seems to ring true here.I think like so many things,the corporate guest is the most important,not those who remember seeing these glorious machines in their heyday and want to witness that,maybe just once more.I can appreciate this may sound daft,but I follow Formula 1 and the same disease has spread through that sport.
Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed that The Winco and The Swinging Monkey seem almost unnaturally similar, in both post content and tone?
Add that to the fact that The Winco is from 'Geordie Land' and The Swinging Monkey is a reference to Hartlepool, where a monkey was hung on suspiscion of being a French spy?
Hmmmmm.
Posting one after the other too. Have a look through their posts, you too may find a spooky similarity.
I really don't think there's anything sinister re. corporate types getting preferential treatment ( I am not involved with the Vulcan project ) - just common sense that with a very complicated aircraft on a 1st flight which may be delayed for a minute or a month for technical or political reasons, it would only bring bad publicity to have people stand around & nothing to happen.
A gang hanging around expectantly might put undesirable pressure on the ground & air crew too...
A good point and one I hadn't considered,do you think the 'guests' will get a refund excluding wine and snacks used?If no go?If there is any chance of failiure,then there should be NO ONE invited except those who NEED to be there.Then,once we can be assured that nothing will go wrong,'ping!!!!' we can all be there.Much fundraising is all it is.I'm sure many who will be there couldn't give a stuff about 558.I will be at the perimiter fence,if I find out when the date is.I've waited too long for this.
Flip-flop - I've no connection with any of this, but having known a few (and mackams) I severely doubt that any monkey-hanger would have anything whatsoever to do with Toon-town. And vice-versa.
I don't really care much now to be honest.After all our ramblings what will be,will be.The fact of the matter is that the MOD should never have retired her in the first place.Also I saw someone,I beleive an ex serviceman complaining that VTS every week asks for more funding and that maybe that funding would be better spent on the injured vets of Falklands/Iraq/Afghan campains.Quite right,it would be better spent and,I'm sure all of us have and do give generously to help all of these folk.But the fact remains,there will always be somebody more worthy/deserving of cash.In an Ideal world there would be enough for everybody,but there isn't and it should be the Government who should look after injured veterans,they shouldn't have to rely on charity,after all,our taxes paid for them to be sent out to get their injuries,our taxes should pay to make it right.But don't think all veterans deserve special treatment.You took the job on,you pays the price.No different to anybody else.No sh*t no glory.
I understand what you're getting at but maybe the veterans was a poor subject to pick !
I completely agree that when I first saw the hassle over the Ashtead house for the injured servicemen's families to stay in, I was struck by 2 thoughts ;
Why is this left to a charity to provide, what sort of Governments have we ?
And of course, "come the glorious day " ( C; Douglas Adams ) all the objectors should be available for target practice...
And let's not forget two words "Display Authorisation". This has to be granted by the CAA before any public display. The aircraft hasn't even flown yet so the possibility of a DA being issued at this time is remote.
I have a gut feeling the test flights will be completed then the money will run out again. Unless a major sponsor is forthcoming don't hold your breath.
In an Ideal world there would be enough for everybody,but there isn't and it should be the Government who should look after injured veterans,they shouldn't have to rely on charity,after all,our taxes paid for them to be sent out to get their injuries,our taxes should pay to make it right." (end)
Hear Hear - as a taxpayer, I never wanted UK servicemen/women to be 'abandoned' to charity for their aftercare. I'm here now writing this because of the contribution they made to make making us safe (and topically - safe from the flood waters) - a priceless and long-standing debt for us all.
Apologies for the thread drift - but you do strike a chord with me.
A good point and one I hadn't considered,do you think the 'guests' will get a refund excluding wine and snacks used?If no go?If there is any chance of failiure,then there should be NO ONE invited except those who NEED to be there.
Perhaps this is the crux of the matter. What are the chances of XH558 not actually taking to the sky on the announced day? Pretty high I'd suggest, bearing in mind the extent of the restoration, the complexity of the old bird and the pressure on the captain to get it right - he'll probably abort if he has any doubts over any of the aircraft's system.
Perhaps Dr Plemming is simply pre-empting the embarassment that would result in the national media reporting a 'no go', followed by another and perhaps another?
1st flights
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