Now I heard a story several months ago that the plans to scrap XM603 at Woodford had been put on the backburner since it still has a lot of fuel in it and it's not going to be easy to get it out.
I was told that one organisation had told BAe that they would happily do the job - for £150,000.
Your right about BAE wanting the fuel removed from XM603 prior 2 anything being done with it, in fact fuel being kept in the tanks back when it was kept in ground running condition is the reason that work was stopped on the aircraft at that time.
Someone in health and safety went mad that the aircraft was being kept with fuel in the tanks decided this was unsafe and that was the end of the aircraft being kept in running condition, to make matters worse someone else then made the decision the ladders the team working on XM603 had used were unsafe and all work to stop on the aircraft
As for XH558 well what can you say, its a total farce you would have thought that at Waddington they would have taxied the aircraft at the very least, many people have asked why this did not happen but as per usual no explanation is forthcoming and a quick look at the website tonight shows no update on the permit to fly issue, for crying out loud do TVOC actually understand the meaning of communication they are taking the publics money therefore have a responsibility to keep the public informed of whats being done with that money, still one thing TVOC are good at is not replying to e-mails I have tried 3 times to inform them the webpage that allows you to enter the monthly lottery type thing to raise funds does not work and guess what no reply and no working webpage, I know someone who owns 3 shops he wrote to TVOC to try and find out about having collection tins for the project in his stores and never even got a response, I've given a fair amount over the years and done my own small bit to try and get others to donate but not anymore I'm fed up with it all.
Your little rant is your own, it is not shared by as many as you would like to think.
No-one to my knowledge has ever questioned the ability and dedication of those who have worked so hard on the project. That, has NEVER been in question.
However, please do not try to defend the indefensible. Unless you have been living on another planet the root cause here at this moment in time is that a major blunder occurred that rocked the project once more. And it is all too simple really. Someone did not do their job! The paperwork as I have said is the 'soul' of the aeroplane. Without it, it will not fly. Wild ideas have been espoused about how 'deals' have been done etc., This is all about peeing in the wind.
At one time I operated 27 aircraft, all with commercial a CofA, all with AOC's and all with quality engineering back-up. This aircraft is AOG! No proper paperwork, no-one seemingly chasing those responsible and everyone guessing when the CAA will 'perform.' They won't, not until all the i's and t's are dotted and crossed.
So please don't high horse your theories and cover ups. Accept that there is a major mistake. The managers of the project are TVOC the engineers are Marshall's
We defend the posters here just as we rebuke them if they step over the line but right now that has not been necessary.
The management need to get out from whatever they are under.
__________________ Cool Mod - Here, and was there.
First of all, many thanks for your critically timed financial support in helping the Vulcan do what we all want to see her do-FLY.
However, I am one of the 10000+ who helped keep her in the air this year, and I will not continue to donate to this project with the current management team in charge.
The longer DrP and his team preside over the sort of disaster which happened last weekend, the more the credibility of the project suffers. I ask you, how are you going to attract the new sponsorship and donations required to keep the aircraft in the air year on year when something as critical for the business a PtF renewal is as badly botched as this was?
What this project requires now is new leadership, with someone who has the degree of credibility required to restore public confidence and bring in the cash needed to keep 558 in the air.
So could it be that the owners of XH558 asked BAe Systems some time ago if they could have some bits from XM603 for Destructive Testing when it got scrapped. BAe did not have a problem with that for all they wanted to do was to get rid of a dead Vulcan covered in green gunge parked outside their Woodford empire and the bits would have been going to the scrapyard anyway.
Then BAe discovered that it was going to cost serious money to scrap XM603 so they were suddenly not in a hurry and the bits required for testing are now not going to be available for some time (unless someone meets the bill).
I last drove past XM603 on 23 June and it was still in one piece albeit looking quite sad.
Location: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Posts: 15,742
Eddief, many thanks for all your exceptional support for '558. Without your invaluable and amazing generosity, the aircraft would never have flown this year - and probably would never do so again.
Thank you also for the communiques you've posted on the VTTS website - everyone must surely appreciate the clarity and transparency of those communications. I hope that VTST will hoist on board the lessons of last weekend as they have lost an enormous amount of goodwill from many supporters.
But they'll still get my monthly direct debit, nonetheless.
I hope that 558 will be at Yeovilton this weekend - and thanks once again for your exceptional support!!
Eddief, many thanks for all your exceptional support for '558. Without your invaluable and amazing generosity, the aircraft would never have flown this year - and probably would never do so again.
Thank you also for the communiques you've posted on the VTTS website - everyone must surely appreciate the clarity and transparency of those communications. I hope that VTST will hoist on board the lessons of last weekend as they have lost an enormous amount of goodwill from many supporters.
But they'll still get my monthly direct debit, nonetheless.
I hope that 558 will be at Yeovilton this weekend - and thanks once again for your exceptional support!
I still quite can't believe the show weekend has passed with no vulcan. Thursday was so full of promise. The pain the base personnel and the Airshow office must have had to endure? I know people on the station who have been abused by the public for the no-show.
The VTTS have damaged the reputation of the Stn, the Air show office and the RAF. There is a pile of embarrasing metal taking up operational space and personally I can't wait to see it leave and not come back.
I did hear VTTS even had the front to ask the RAF for hangarage!
nice try VTTS. You could really have made it for us enthusiasts of the plane, but instead you screwed it up for everyone.
Branson. Please buy the plane for a £1 and put in in trust, but have your engineering team run the programme. Stick as many Virgin signs on it as you want but for god's sake fly it professionally for us.
We will never forgive VTTS for this.
Why?
They never admitted to the late screw up and kept quiet and flew in pretending all was well.
They tried to blame everyone else but themselves.
They failed to inform Waddo, and now leave them babysitting the thing.
They never once apologised.
They still haven't apologised.
Oh yes, they STILL haven't apologised.
Oh. look at their latest website post. They STILL haven't apologised.
So just to clarify, the current position of TVOC, reading between the lines of the press release (because they aren't being explicit) is that they knew nothing and didn't understand any of the issues surrounding the Permits, and that the deferred in all these matters to Marshalls who understand them, and were thus shocked when it all went wrong.
Taking this strictly at face value, TVOC are publicly admitting that they don't know what they are doing, are they not? And that they are vulnerable to either being taken for a ride by, or (as allegedly in this case) let down by a supplier because they don't know what they are doing...
If TVOC are publically announcing that operating the Vulcan on the civil register is all too complicated for the TVOC operational people to understand and beyond their competence and experience to cope with, then why are individuals still holding down jobs that they are unable to fulfill the requirements of?
I thought the original idea was that TVOC was going to be a little one-plane selc-contained 'airline', doing its own operations and maintenance in its little shed at Brunty. Presumably on the evidence of TVOC's competence from this last weekend we can all be thankful that the maintenance is still in the hands of Marshalls...
Some got seriously scarred by last weekend's screw-up but most of them now appreciate that 'black & white' rarely applies to complex project-management & decades old aircraft
I'm sorry to disagree Eddie, but the operation of all civil aircraft is perfectly black and white, (although the RAF has been known to occasionally use a bit of red ink ).
The operator has responsibility to directly oversee every aspect of the operation, including any delegated or sub-contracted activities such as maintenance or continuing airworthiness management.
As a long term air show attendee, I would like to add my two cents worth to the debate.
Because of a serious illlness, I am no longer able to attend airshows as I can no longer enjoy strolling round the ground displays. I have enjoyed airshows from the fifties - starting with Turnhouse in 1954, then Farnborough in 1957 and so on through the years. For many years, I was an active member of the Canadian Warplane Heritage and visited airshows annually in Hamilton, Ontario; London, Ontario and at Toronto waterfront.
In short, I know airshows!!
This year my wife treated me top a birthday surprise. We were to do Waddington first class!!
We flew in by helicopter from Newark Air Musuem and were wined and dined at the Lord Trenchard pavilion, where the hospitality was superb, and then flew back to Newark. How superior I felt looking down on the traffic jams that I am usually tied up in!!
So far so good. Now for the actual airshow.
It was probably the WORST air show I have ever attended.
Apart from the Vulcan fiasco, the display was very poor. There was very little modern air force equipment from either the Royal Air Force, or the NATO countries. Surely they are not all in Afghanistan or Iraq? No F15s, F16s or F18s. There were too many aerobatic teams - some of dubious quality, and as a previous writer has remarked, the aircraft were very high and far away.
The grouind display was poorly laid out with the aircraft on display scattered haphazardly between the hangars, stands and funfairs
Oh, for the good old days when there was a lineup of static aircraft and a separate display of display aircraft.
The sound system was appalling - a non stop barrage of very loud music.
At least the sound was closed down for the last Lancaster/Spitfire/Hurricane
flypast (according the commentator, at the request of persons who were recording on camcorders) I want to HEAR Merlins not rock music, otherwise I would have gone to Glastonbury.
The promise of TWO Vulcans and a Concorde will not drag me back to Waddington
Last edited by Gordon Fraser : 9th July 2009 at 11:40.
I still quite can't believe the show weekend has passed with no vulcan. Thursday was so full of promise. The pain the base personnel and the Airshow office must have had to endure? I know people on the station who have been abused by the public for the no-show.
The VTTS have damaged the reputation of the Stn, the Air show office and the RAF. There is a pile of embarrasing metal taking up operational space and personally I can't wait to see it leave and not come back.
I did hear VTTS even had the front to ask the RAF for hangarage!
nice try VTTS. You could really have made it for us enthusiasts of the plane, but instead you screwed it up for everyone.
Branson. Please buy the plane for a £1 and put in in trust, but have your engineering team run the programme. Stick as many Virgin signs on it as you want but for god's sake fly it professionally for us.
We will never forgive VTTS for this.
Why?
They never admitted to the late screw up and kept quiet and flew in pretending all was well.
They tried to blame everyone else but themselves.
They failed to inform Waddo, and now leave them babysitting the thing.
They never once apologised.
They still haven't apologised.
Oh yes, they STILL haven't apologised.
Oh. look at their latest website post. They STILL haven't apologised.
I don't think the reputation of the station has been damaged has it? surely people are intelligent enough to know it's not don to Waddington.
The reasons for the late anouncment were given, not saying i agree but they were to be fair stuck between a rock and a hard place.
As fro branson buying the plane, well thats realy rather funny! he would have to shell out considerably more than a quid and it is in trust already
and besides i don't think Branson is into woodwork is he?
I don't think the reputation of the station has been damaged has it? surely people are intelligent enough to know it's not don to Waddington
Local publicity here was heavily based on the Vulcan - and the station didn't deliver. So no matter whose fault it is, the show's reputation will be affected. If I were running the show for next year I'd want to do a bit of due diligence on 558's maintenance and paperwork before accepting it again, bearing in mind the standard of competence shown by the Vulcan's operators to date.
Afraid i've got to agree.
Whether you like it or not Lincolnshire is the home to the Vulcan and the same with the Lancaster and the media,organisers play on this fact.
Waddo Airshow has been pretty dire for a few years now but it won't stop people from attending as most of them are not aviation enthusiasts but just looking for a good day out and trust me round here they're few and far between.The Vulcan is still news at the moment and just makes the show that much more interesting and even non aviation people can relate to it.For how much longer if any more issues like last weekend occur is anyones guess.
Some activity around 558 this afternoon - car, transit van and an apu; was hopefully might see her depart (in a good way - nice to see her fly etc. not get rid of her!) but alas to no avail. After all that has been said, do hope she flies at Yeovilton,when all said and done, we all want the same thing - to see this beautiful bird grace the skies!
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