XH558 is however is fully serviceable and ready for flight
Interesting use of the word 'serviceable'. In my day as a Vulcan SEngO, OC Eng Wg and my squadron OC would have been on my back if I had declared an aircraft as S when it was still awaiting clearance to fly from higher authority.
Location: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
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Serviceable, but not airworthy until the Permit to Fly is issued.
The VTST press release is a joke. Not the slightest hint of any apology to the thousands of supporters they have let down with their crass managerial ineptitude.
Although there seems an element of 'cock up' in the Vulcan saga, it does seem odd that if the aircraft is safe to fly Friday that a small extention of the PtF could not be granted to allow the paperwork to be completed.
I think the CAA are likely to get a lot more stick in the near future having refused to issue Permits to Fly for all the aircraft in a well known large warbird operator in the South East. An audit of paperwork is being carried out at the height of the Display Season, which will take some time. This effects the largest warbird airshow in the UK where most of the running costs of the organisation are recouped from the gate receipts. A loss of a huge sum of money,as many aircraft from overseas, perversly with lesser CAA oversight ,are having to be brought in for the event.
Most of the aircraft are fully serviceable but are grounded by bureaucracy.
In my airline career with the largest UK operator we had many CAA maintenance/flight ops audits which were done during normal airline operations. The company was not grounded during the audit as in this case.
Many people are of the opinion that with many CAA functions going to EASA the remaining CAA operatives are giving the remaining small UK operators in all parts of UK aviation a hard time in order to justify their jobs.
Cessna. In general I'd agree, but looking at all the information about this one, I have to say that it seems the CAA are in the right.
I'm saddened, and angry, about the lack of information in advance. The fact that something relatively simple like making sure the paperwork is correct and submitted in plenty of time is beyond the capabilities of the management team doesn't bode well for the future of the project.
I missed all her flights last year due to a major illness, and to see her flying this year has been a major goal, so if this is to be her ignominious end, buried under the ineptitude and stupidity of well paid "senior management" then I will be deeply saddened.
Can we boot out the idiots and put in a management team that can actually manage?
I arrived at Waddington at 8.40 yesterday, Traffic was ok and the weather was fantasic, However this was soon to be washed away as, A) The Vulcan XH558 didnt fly AGAIN.... B) No Tornado, WTF ????? im sure you all know what WTF means lol and C) No Harrier ????
Whats going on with waddington ????
Sorry people but this air-show is getting worse by the year.
More and more people are not going each year & this is because the military aircraft are getting beyond a joke.
NO more waddington for me, Fairford is the way forward a PROPPER air-show !!
I agree, it is pathetic. They treat the people who subscribed to this project this year with contempt by ignoring their responsibilities to be upfront and honest. There is nothing honest about that statement. They didn't apply for the permit until 26th June, a Friday, it will not have reached anyone at the CAA until the 29th and the then current permit expired on the 3rd and they moved 558 to Waddo where they KNEW that it would be impossible for her to fly. Why did they do that?
They also KNEW that the CAA would take 15 days to issue a new permit and that includes two weekends - IF that is how they work.
The ineptitude of the management at Bruntingthorpe beggars belief. The statement 'implicates' BAE and Marshall's and the following part of the statement shows that even now they can lie their heads off.
Quote:
Marshall Aerospace together with VTST and BAE Systems are doing all they can as quickly as they can to resolve this unexpected, one-off issue within the next few days.
How can it be unexpected? How can it be in the next few days if the CAA's stated expected date of issue is 15 days after receipt of the application. That application should have been sent on the 14th June to have any chance for the 4th July. It is sheer incompetence, no more no less. Then to try and hoodwink those who have traveled a 100 miles or more is an absolute disgrace.
The supporters who write here are to be commended. Not for their input but for their blatant cheek in defending the indefensible.
The engineering director must and should explain himself to the thousands of people who have put their hard earned into this project, expecting 558 to be flying at all the announced displays. That it will not do so with the accompanying pathetic reasons is a serious reflection on the management and they should go.
I had planned to go to Waddington today, but I cancelled my trip as soon as I heard about the XH558 debacle. I had planned to visit the TVOC stand, hand over my pledge money (and some more to compensate for the delay in paying) and probably buy something too (a sweatshirt if they had any that were big enough!). Now none of that will happen.
Through a combination of work commitments, bad weather and u/s XH558 I didn't get to see her fly at all last year. Whenever I made the effort, I made the wrong call. Looks like the same this year. I could have gone down there on one of the arrivals days, but work pressures plus the "certainty" of seeing her today made me decide to just stick to the normal flight day. I now deeply regret that decision.
Various family and work commitemts this year mean that I only have a couple more chances to see her fly. If/when I do see her, the cheque will be in the post, with a bonus, but I do not feel inclined to donate money to a group that must contain at least a couple of totally inept people unless and until I see some return for my money.
At the very least I find the timing of the announcement deeply cynical and immoral. Why not issue a warning a couple of days out from the airshow, explaining the situation and giving some indication of likelyhood of success or failure. Folks could then make up their mind with the facts at hand.
To me, this smells of cover-up and embarassement. Someone, on or a little before 26th June must have said "did you submit the PtF?". "No - I thought you had done that". "Now that's another fine mess you've got me into" (cue theme music)
On another (related) subject - I'd like to see published accounts of running costs and income from all XH558 displays. I'd like to know how this "company" is being run in a way that stands a chance of making financial sense. Given this c*ck-up, it is likely that there is no proper financial control or revenue optimisation.
I am no specialist in any of these areas, but I have been involved in delivery of very effective projects and have also trouble-shot and recovered failing ones. I'd be willing to lend a hand if it would help.
Having planned a trip today to Waddo I'm pleased I didn't set off from Newcastle as every time I went to see 558 fly last year drew a blank too.
Apart from the spineless utterings of the management and lack of communications and acceptance of any sort of responsibility, when are the illustrious and esteemed trustees going to grow a spine and call Pleming, Edmundson and others to account as is their corporate obligation?
Never, on the basis that the tail wagged the dog about PR, Statutory Accounts reporting and supporter donor relations got forgotten about. We should collectively wrte them an open letter via the media and shame those tired old sods into life if the glorious leaders won't.
Utter f*&king disgrace.
Given they harped on about delivering a flying Vulcan as success irrespective of the funding issues we'd gone on about they should now fall on their swords and go. Remember the words in the Norway debate.....
One fact says it all for me. The people ‘running’ the programme have one aircraft to manage. The sole purpose of this aircraft is to appear at air shows. The annual Permit to Fly and C of A renewals fall smack in the middle of the air show season.
If there was any commonsense at all in ‘management’ then someone would have raised an eyebrow and thought, ‘Hmm, risky. Let’s bring the renewals forward to February/March, just in case’. They didn’t – and they’ve exposed themselves, again, as a bunch of dodgy amateurs.
The CAA will have done all it could to help out, I’m sure of that, but this incident will have demolished any remaining goodwill from Gatwick.
Just caught the tail end of a Waddo Airshow Radio interview (30+miles away - not bad!). "Sean" (Maffet I presume) said that they were hoping that 558 would fly direct to Yeovilton on Thursday or Friday and would display at both Yeovilton and Fairford as originally planned.
Given the inspection and approval requirements, how can this be the case?
I went to Waddo yesterday. Travelled up from South Wales on Friday and crashed at a mates house. Got stuck in the traffic into the show for some two and a half hours and didn't get in until gone 12.
The flying programme was indeed very thin and to be honest I only travelled up to see the Vampire, Vulcan and the Strikemasters. I was really suprised that there were no Tornado's in the air however and even the static park was a bit thinner than usual. The weather whilst delightful was only partial compensation for the lack of flying. I treat Waddington as a bit if a practice for RIAT, I am an amateur photographer so I use it to check on display routines by various display teams and to plan my shots in advance. However, if they continue to trim down the display it's just not going to be worth me going next year.
I have to say that no Vulcan was a real disappointment but I can see the CAA's point of view. If they had given a waiver to XH558 and it had pancaked into the crowd not only would they have been vilified, a lot of people could have been killed and an irreplaceable airframe would have been destroyed; I dread to think of what the insurance liabilities would have been if they flew on a waiver and then had a serious accident
The rules are there for a reason, everyone should be aware of them and they are to ensure the safety of not just the crowd but the crew as well. If TVOC knew that the work had not been done they should have had the balls to front up on Friday. No doubt if the CAA had said no flying on Friday, that would still be true on Saturday and Sunday as well, no matter how much they whined about it. Given how important the certification is to them, there is really no excuse for not doing something about it sooner.
I am tempted to repeat my post after they missed Biggin last Sunday, but that I don't want to appear smug.
The people running the Vulcan project (or should that be VulCON?) must be become more aware of, and make better use of the commoditity they have. Pretty soon, the 'vulcan effect' will have worn off with the frustrations that are being experienced being translated into people not contributing hard cash to keep hr in the air, and that would be a great shame.
Lots of people have done a great job in getting her into the air, but there does seem to be a certain amount of mis-management.
I have to say that no Vulcan was a real disappointment but I can see the CAA's point of view. If they had given a waiver to XH558 and it had pancaked into the crowd not only would they have been vilified, a lot of people could have been killed and an irreplaceable airframe would have been destroyed; I dread to think of what the insurance liabilities would have been if they flew on a waiver and then had a serious accident
She's been flying on a 'waiver' for the past year. The CAA gave them a years dispensation with regard to the testing to be done on XM603.
Obviously that didn't happen and the CAA haven't renewed the permit to fly. In reality though, she's no more unsafe now than when she arrived on Thursday.
Why Oh Why couldn't they have at least done fast taxi to nose wheel lift and attempted to give the many thousands there just to see 558 a little back for all the support the clown management have received. I too went today and left a little deflated at the poor ground displays and with a few notable exceptions the very thin air display. Apart from the usual Reds which are always cool and The Lanc (genuinely did bring a tear to my eye when it started up) The Typhoon which was the best display of the day for me. The rest were just ok nothing amazing, sorry just my take on things.
ps. Forgot to say I did go to have a look at 558 but walked away because I was fed up of hearing the bullshit excuses for not displaying....... everyone else's fault and not tvoc's. One of the ground crew was so convinced that it would be flying next week it made me wonder what he knew that nobody else did.... Mmmmmmmm.
Ah, you must have spoken to the groundcrew who was instructed to tell everybody that story. On saturday I got a different story, blaming the CAA entirely for the co*k up and yesterday I got another story, laying the blame 100% on the shoulders of Marshalls.
I don't know who is to blame, and to be honest I'm so pi$$ed of with the whole saga I don't care anymore, but I do know that those idiots at the top of the Vulcan tree need a bloody good kick in the na**ers for their compete incompetance and treatment of the public. They could not organise a bloody thing.
Why wasn't Pleming at Waddo yesterday, in person, apologising to the thousands of unhappy people? 'cos he is a total waste of space with no spine, thats why.
Cricket23 has the right phrase VUL-CON because that is what it is, a CON. And I feel conned, as do many others I'm sure. Whatever Waddo paid to get the Vulcan to the show they should demand back, and offer the punters a discount at next years show.
Vulcon to the Sky? The Vulcon Operating Co(n) it is a bloody joke.
On saturday I got a different story, blaming the CAA entirely for the co*k up and yesterday I got another story, laying the blame 100% on the shoulders of Marshalls.
Blaming the two organisations needed to get them out of this mire is not the wisest move.
Time for some honesty from Mr Pleming.
Not quite that easy....being on an Experimental 'N' plate only allows a limited amount of flying in UK airspace and certainly not enough for the Vulcan's planned appearances. You can get up to 28 days' flying in total.
In my line of work, if we submitted an ARC application a week before renewal we'd be facing an AOG until the paperwork had been properly dealt with by the local CAA office. If we knew a year in advance that we'd need third party work completed for renewal, Engineering Contracts would have been out getting the relevant contract in place to ensure the work was done at our own expense.
Maybe BAE or Marshals haven't done the structural inspection work, but work costs money and payment would normally come from the party that needs the work done. In this case the CAA, as regulator, identified a source of test material that would satisfy the structural proof testing requirement. It is up to the VT Management to arrange for that test material to be purchased and tested. I can see no reason why BAE or anybody else should perform any work for free. Like my own employer, they're commercial businesses working solely for the benefit of, and answerable to, their shareholders.
Well as has been stated
Why the hell didn't she at least do some taxis near the crowd line or even a fast run down the rway
There was plenty of time to fill where she could have done that and at least made partly up for the disappointment of everyone (including my 10yr old who said not again after last summers fruitless attempts to see her moving)
I used to go to brunty in the days before the clowns got hold of her, and her fast taxis were brilliant and TBH the take off roll and "howl" is what we want to hear I would prefer a guarantee of that every time rather than all these no shows
As for the paperwork, surely someone could predict having a permit run out mid show dates was a recipe for disaster and should have been brought forward to the spring
Components going U/s are one thing but this sound like total incompetence. One wonders how much Waddo knew of this deceit before hand, as I for one would not have gone based on the limited flying display and linesups, had I know she wasn't running and i can guarantee the 90k there on saturday would have also been well down, although given how they get pre booked tickets in these days, it gives less room for folks to cancel which is probably why sunday wasnt a disaster for the organisers
Cant see them getting away with it next year though
No More Waddington
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