PPRuNe Forums


Aviation History and Nostalgia Whether working in aviation, retired, wannabee or just plain fascinated this forum welcomes all with a love of flight.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 28th Jan 2006, 13:38   #1 (permalink)

Senis Semper Fidelis
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Lancashire U K
Posts: 1,288
Thought this might interest some of you

I have just been sorting out some more of my fathers papers and pictures, I came across an evelope with these little gems inside,

One is an Itialian Airforce postcard that shows the Italian sysmbols attacking Gt Britain, and what seems like a flimsey paper note that was to be dropped from allied A/c requesting the Italians to give up and makes comment as to what has happened to Rommel in N Afric.

Perhaps someone could translate it properly for us.
hope they come out clear.
Vfr


Vfrpilotpb is offline  
Old 28th Jan 2006, 15:28   #2 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: South Coast
Posts: 75
very interesting, thanks for posting it for us.
what did your father do during the war (squadron? etc)
I don't pretend to be an expert but my rough translation goes:
"For three years the Fascists have repeated to you that Great Britain was dead. Today without warning they say that the situation for Italians is serious and that the fate of your Native land is in danger.
Who has betrayed your Native land? Mussolini, who without provocation, declared war on Great Britain. Who has made you join the Barbarians? who has sacrificed your sons in Russia? Mussolini, creator of the Rome-Berlin Axis. While not joining Rommel in Alexandria he prefers the tropical climate and has run to Benghazi.
Six Italian Divisions have been abandoned and captured in the Desert after having been stripped of half its transportation to help the Nazis in their escape. The Anglo-Americans are now in Tunisia. Every Italian city is within the range of Allied aircraft.
The Germans have been caught up in Russia. The Russian winter will take care of them. Hitler wants more Italians in order to make headway in his Russian campaign.
The recent events in African demonstrate to you the value of this anti-historical alliance with the Barbarians. You have been stripped, sold, and sacrificed for the megalomania of Mussolini. For this the self-confident Sibilia of Venice Palace has sold your martyrdom.
Flaps ten please is offline  
Old 28th Jan 2006, 16:09   #3 (permalink)

Senis Semper Fidelis
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Lancashire U K
Posts: 1,288
Flaps,

Thank you for that translation, My father seemed to have quite a few Sqdns that he flew with as far as I can see he was with 148, 213 or 4 another I have yet to discover the number but seemed to have spent most of his time with 272 Sqdn whilst there he flew in Beaufighters, I, like many of you Ppruners had a great respect for my father, but found he was not good at telling his sons tales of dering do, in fact he was backward at comming forward with any Wartime information, I have been going through his papers for the last three years since he died, and find every folder shows something different, he alwys had a camera with him and I have spent many hours looking at many pictures that sometimes mean nothing, but others dont need any narrative to bring the action to life, I have found many pictures today that show scene's of the aftermath of an attack on their Aerodrome as he calls it, by a enemy aircraft that has set fire to a couple of Wellington bombers, then the aftermath with the Wimpeys all burnt out and then many pictures of what must be his flight in action over the Med, If people are interested I will pick a few and post them when I find some that are good enough, I will try to post a picture of some sort of Xmas greeting that shows the Sqdn crest of 272, it clearly shows that their moral was pretty good at that time. Thank you for your interest.

PeteR-B
Vfr

Vfrpilotpb is offline  
Old 29th Jan 2006, 06:55   #4 (permalink)

Senis Semper Fidelis
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Lancashire U K
Posts: 1,288
These are some of the photos I have just unearthed from fathers papers, the Wellingtons are with 148Sqdn? in the Western Desert of N Africa, and are the aftermath of an attack by the Axis aircraft, not known wether they were German or Italian

the Beaus are undated but I feel could be around 42/43

This very nice looking Brig was supposed to be carrying Jerries(as the writing says) so it was sunk by 272 Sqdn Beaus

These Wellington l were with 148 Sqdn at a base that looks like Kabrit or Kalrit(the words have faded) WD North Africa they are Merlin Powered Wimpeys

This Wellington is a little well used rom a wheels up landing

This picture is called the "Dead Place"

My old man has suggested this could be a Caproni 133 but endorses that with a ? mark, but whatever it has RAF roundels on it this was in the Western Desert about 1941/2


Hope thes interest you.

Vfr
Vfrpilotpb is offline  
Old 29th Jan 2006, 09:29   #5 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 1,779
Forgive my ignorance [genuinely] - I thought the Wellington was radial powered. I never heard of a Merlin powered version...

Could the photo be of the 'dead place', where a Wellington fuselage is mixed up with wreckage from a Merlin powered aircraft?
FJJP is offline  
Old 29th Jan 2006, 10:21   #6 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Nottingham UK
Age: 78
Posts: 5,258
FJJP
The Wellington B Mk II had Merlin engines It was identical to the Mk IC with the exception of the powerplant; utilising the 1,145 hp (855 kW) Rolls-Royce Merlin X engine instead—400 were produced at Weybridge. Whether any saw service in North Africa is another matter.

Last edited by MReyn24050; 29th Jan 2006 at 10:38.
MReyn24050 is offline  
Old 29th Jan 2006, 13:46   #7 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Manchester
Posts: 325
Thank you for sharing these with us Vfrpilotpb.
I particularly liked the Italian post card! With a bit of "Photoshop magic" you could replace the torn corner too.
The trimotor in RAF roundles looks a little French to me.

Rgds Dr I
Dr Illitout is offline  
Old 29th Jan 2006, 14:18   #8 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 1,779
MReyn24050

Thanks for that - I was unaware that the Wellington got past the radials. I assumed (wrongly) that the Wellington's career was short-lived and faded into obscurity as a bomber fairly early in the war, although I know that it was used for a variety of Coastal duties.
FJJP is offline  
Old 29th Jan 2006, 16:58   #9 (permalink)

Senis Semper Fidelis
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Lancashire U K
Posts: 1,288
The Merlin powered Wellies are as they sit the places where the burned if you look carefully (bad colour I must admit,) you will see the sand bags of a blast shelter, and the dead place is where the beyond use airframes were pushed or lifted to, I do have another picture of a welling front view after it had landed with U/c up and it is cler to see the Merlin PP, I too am surprised for I thought the Merlin Wimpeys were only for High Altitude use, and on double checking the faded writing of my old Dad on the reverse of the piccs it clearly says WD N Africa, I would say that is Western Desert, and dated 1941, looking at the Diarys that I also have, that puts Dad in Libiya, and by Feb 1942 he was at a drome( as he puts it)near a place called Aboukir,

I will post the other pictures when the net has gone quiet its much faster that way.

Vfr
Vfrpilotpb is offline  
Old 30th Jan 2006, 04:24   #10 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 105
A few nanoseconds on 'Google' shows that the trimotor is probably indeed a Caproni 133.

http://wp.scn.ru/en/ww15/b/1/32/0/3

http://wmilitary.neurok.ru/caproni.ca133.html

Thanks for posting, vfrpilotpb. Fascinating stuff.
Mike51 is offline  
Old 30th Jan 2006, 05:40   #11 (permalink)

Senis Semper Fidelis
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Lancashire U K
Posts: 1,288
Not to happy Merlin Powered Wellie

Found it at last this was taken in the Western Desert N Africa about the end of 1941



I have quiet few more to post when time allows,hope non of you are bored by this!

Vfr
Vfrpilotpb is offline  
Old 30th Jan 2006, 08:52   #12 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Nottingham UK
Age: 78
Posts: 5,258
Vfrpioltpb
Many thanks for sharing your photographs with us, I find them fascinating. In a search I have found that 148 Squadron RAF operated Wellington Mk IIs in the Western Desert from October 1941 until April 1942. The Squadron History states "Following the entry of Italy into the war on 10 June 1940, detachments of UK bomber squadrons had been sent to Malta to carry out attacks against targets in North Africa. Three of these detachments (from No 38, 99 and 115 Squadrons) were amalgamated into a new No 148 Squadron on 14 December 1940 at Luqa. It continued its attacks against targets in Libya, Sicily and also the Italian mainland, from Malta, until March 1941 when it moved to a new home at Kabrit in Egypt. From here it supported the 8th Army during its battles for control of the North African Desert, operating from a number of desert landing grounds."
Mel

Last edited by MReyn24050; 31st Jan 2006 at 06:28.
MReyn24050 is offline  
Old 30th Jan 2006, 11:16   #13 (permalink)

Yes, Him
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: West Sussex, UK
Posts: 2,690
VFR,
fascinating stuff, I'd love to see more.
Gainesy is offline  
Old 30th Jan 2006, 19:04   #14 (permalink)

Senis Semper Fidelis
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Lancashire U K
Posts: 1,288
Thank you Mel for the info, I rather gathered that my old Dad was a little like a Gypsey, for I have locations on hundreds of photos that stretch from Libya to Alexandria, Port Said, Northern Cyprus, Malta, Sicily, Sardinia, and finally Italy, but also could not understand why one Sqdn finished and seemed to disappear, I must admit to being a novice at searching and probably am doing all the wrong things, but seem to come up with nought most times, so a big thank you for that info on 148Sqdn, somewhere in all these terribly small prints (some not much bigger than a postage stamp) I have seen the 148 Crest , I will post it as I have found it.

Gainsey thank you also, I was very unsure whether anyone would be interested in what after all are the views of just one Raf man looking through his old Kodak, I can remeber seeing the camera that Dad used it sort of unfolded and a sort of bellows affair came out then the lens was on the end of the bellows, Dad seemed to be a prolific photographer of what sometimes seem to be mundane subjects, they played a lot of cricket and football, and seemed always to be grouping for a picture to be taken, seems bizare to be playing cricket in the Western Desert when at anytime you could be under attack from the enemy.

a view of the team with my father in it, I really didnt think Beaus were as big as they seem in this picture!



"King Farouks Yacht" under arrest in some Egyptian harbour near to Alexandria



Many regards

Vfr
Vfrpilotpb is offline  
Old 30th Jan 2006, 20:19   #15 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: due south
Posts: 1,333
Vfrpilotpb: It certainly does interest some of us.

I would also like to see more so please keep them coming.
henry crun is offline  
Old 30th Jan 2006, 21:00   #16 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: uk
Posts: 62
i could look at these sort of pics all day long.
Blodwyn Pig is offline  
Old 30th Jan 2006, 22:15   #17 (permalink)

Senis Semper Fidelis
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Lancashire U K
Posts: 1,288
Well here we are again, I hope PPRuNe will not bother if I have not resized correctly,

Bit ancient Hawker Hart with my pop holding the prop, I think this was during is training at Cranwell about 1937/8


Hampden Bomber again about 1938 Pater is one nearest camera uner wing, but I do not know where this was,


148 Sqdn Crest


4000lb bomb waiting to go into a Wimpey


Similar bomb being winched into a 148 Wellington at Kabrit 1941/2


This Hurrican force landed into the Western Desert 1941 with some sort of fire problem in engine compartment, if you look at the rear of the exhaust stubs you can see some scorching(the picture is a little blurred)


Similar Huricane with Broken back Western Desert 1941


This is a captured Italian Tri motor on Sicily about 1943, seems intact but nothing else is written on back of photo


Beaufighter Sardinia 1944 flown By Sergeant Pilot Alan Powell(still with us) and Navigator my pop (not with us) they had flown out that morning to the troopship the "Rex" with orders to sink it, a full flight(dont know how many in a flight) ws despatched and said Rex as sunk, this is one thing I did hear from my father, who said the AP projectiles fired at the liner went straight through and out the other side, after one pass by the planes from 272 Sqdn the liner started to list and slowy settled in the water finally rolling over, on there way back the used ther cannons on anything they could find,this Beau found a target but they didnt see a flak ship moored alongside(unsighted to them) they attacked the ship and flew over its funnels only to feel and hear hard things hitting their Beau, with they wings full of holes and no air in their tyres they attempted to land and this is the result, apparently the Beaufighter was immensly strong and protected the crew with the big Hercules radials sticking out in fornt to batter anything out of the way

The Finger Inn was their mess, and the crashed Beaufighter Pilot Alan powell can be seen at the front with the black top, my old man is the short one with his hands in his pockets, this pictuure was taken in Cyprus about mid 1943


Ill post more tommorow night,

Many regards

PeterR-B
Vfr

Sorry PPRuNe I cocked up with my resize

Last edited by Vfrpilotpb; 30th Jan 2006 at 22:26.
Vfrpilotpb is offline  
Old 31st Jan 2006, 02:55   #18 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sale, Australia
Age: 73
Posts: 3,832
Fasinating stuff Vfrpilotpb, keep it up. Everytime some one dies a library burns down, unless some one keeps that history alive. Every one, no matter what their station, has a story to tell.
Brian Abraham is offline  
Old 31st Jan 2006, 03:49   #19 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: due south
Posts: 1,333
Vfrpilotpb: You mention "AP projectiles fired at the liner went straight through and out the other side".
That must have been before the unexpected underwater characteristics of the AP head were discovered.

Quite by accident I believe, it was found that if the old 3inch rocket was fired into the water a certain distance short of a target it would describe a parabola underwater and come up through the bottom of the ship.
henry crun is offline  
Old 31st Jan 2006, 04:11   #20 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 1998
Location: Kalgoorlie, W.A. , Australia
Age: 79
Posts: 414
Small Prints

My late Uncle (R.A. A-A) used a similar camera in Ceylon and India and onto Rangoon via Chittagong & Mandalay. He had a mask which was inserted in the camera and the film ran over it. The old standard 120 film took 8 3 1/2" x 2 1/4" the common format (or 12 2 1/4") exposures. I think (I was only 7 or 8 when this was explained to me) with mask inserted you took 16 exposures down one side of the film. You then rewound the film rotated the mask and took another 16 exposures down the other side. This meant you had 32 pictures instead of 8 from one film. With film in very limited supply my Uncle became unit photographer and had all their allocation of film. This in itself ecked out the film supply as duplication was avoided and then with group pictures also got everyone in one picture further conservation. He spent about 2 years after the war distributing print to the rest of the unit.
Pom Pax is offline  
Closed Thread


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT. The time now is 23:21.


1996-2012 The Professional Pilots Rumour Network

SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1