Squires Gate Vulcan for the Chop
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Squires Gate Vulcan for the Chop
After what seemed like some braindead idea from a Manchester Public House landlord to aquire the Vulcan from Mr Bateson at EGNH, to sit in his garden where his drinkers would be able to shade themselves from the Sun has finally fallen through,
The BBC north West news service anounced today that Mr Bateson has now agreed for some scapman to remove the A/c from the site it has occupied for many years, Whilst this A/c has been a wonderful reminder of the ability of the British engineers and the RAF to have and fly such superb looking pieces of kit, it is sad to see this sort of end befall this Vulcan.
Mr Bateson must have spent at least 50pence trying to preserve it, the poor old girl has stood on flat tyres and knackered landing struts for at least the last 12 years with the cockpit windows missing for about the same length of time. any Ppruners out there flown this craft?
Sad end!
PeterR-B
Vfr
The BBC north West news service anounced today that Mr Bateson has now agreed for some scapman to remove the A/c from the site it has occupied for many years, Whilst this A/c has been a wonderful reminder of the ability of the British engineers and the RAF to have and fly such superb looking pieces of kit, it is sad to see this sort of end befall this Vulcan.
Mr Bateson must have spent at least 50pence trying to preserve it, the poor old girl has stood on flat tyres and knackered landing struts for at least the last 12 years with the cockpit windows missing for about the same length of time. any Ppruners out there flown this craft?
Sad end!
PeterR-B
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Re: Squires Gate Vulcan for the Chop
It's gone .............
Thanks to the PistonHeads Forum for these pics.
Shame on Mr Bateson who did nothing for that aircraft since it arrived in 1983.
Thanks to the PistonHeads Forum for these pics.
Shame on Mr Bateson who did nothing for that aircraft since it arrived in 1983.
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Re: Squires Gate Vulcan for the Chop
Bateson makes my blood boil.
He bought XL391 for £5k from the RAF, didn't even spend the 50p on preserving it that Vfrpilotpb suggested, letting it decay to such an extent that the local council condemned it. He finally sticks it on eBay, with no indication as to the terrible state it was in, and an idiot landlord buys it for £15k without even setting eyes on it. Said idiot landlord, realising what a pile of poo it is, says he doesn't want it any more and a legal battle ensues. Outcome - ownership reverts back to Bateson along with a £4k out or court settlement.
Bateson then attempts to sell the engines on eBay (ha! ha! stop you're killing me!) with no takers. Bateson then sells aircraft to scrappie for £5k.
For years he rejected all attempts to save it, or even the cockpit section, saying that he wants £10k, no negotiation. Now nothing is left. B@stard.
He bought XL391 for £5k from the RAF, didn't even spend the 50p on preserving it that Vfrpilotpb suggested, letting it decay to such an extent that the local council condemned it. He finally sticks it on eBay, with no indication as to the terrible state it was in, and an idiot landlord buys it for £15k without even setting eyes on it. Said idiot landlord, realising what a pile of poo it is, says he doesn't want it any more and a legal battle ensues. Outcome - ownership reverts back to Bateson along with a £4k out or court settlement.
Bateson then attempts to sell the engines on eBay (ha! ha! stop you're killing me!) with no takers. Bateson then sells aircraft to scrappie for £5k.
For years he rejected all attempts to save it, or even the cockpit section, saying that he wants £10k, no negotiation. Now nothing is left. B@stard.
Re: Squires Gate Vulcan for the Chop
Equally, shame on the MoD for selling arcraft to people who were incapable of keeping them in half-decent condition.
All the more reason why, in addition to the outstanding efforts of the Vulcan to the Sky campaign www.tvoc.co.uk , the 655 Maintenance and Preservation Society www.xm655.com and the Vulcan Restoration Trust www.xl426.com deserve all the support they can in order to keep these wonderful old aircraft in running condition.
During the Cold War, the V-bombers were a conerstone of the UK's deterrent policy. Future generations must be allowed not just to see, but also to hear them operating as they did back in the days when the UK could afford an air force.
All the more reason why, in addition to the outstanding efforts of the Vulcan to the Sky campaign www.tvoc.co.uk , the 655 Maintenance and Preservation Society www.xm655.com and the Vulcan Restoration Trust www.xl426.com deserve all the support they can in order to keep these wonderful old aircraft in running condition.
During the Cold War, the V-bombers were a conerstone of the UK's deterrent policy. Future generations must be allowed not just to see, but also to hear them operating as they did back in the days when the UK could afford an air force.
Last edited by BEagle; 13th Jan 2006 at 17:51.
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Re: Squires Gate Vulcan for the Chop
Ah yes, Vulcan to the Sky the group with the wonderful tag line
"We have taken our aircraft to bits, send us money to put it back together or we'll scrap it"
"We have taken our aircraft to bits, send us money to put it back together or we'll scrap it"
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Re: Squires Gate Vulcan for the Chop
I looked at those sites as well and wondered if they were spruiking for funds or not. Obviously they weren't 'cos linking to them is not allowed on this site, well I'm not allowed to.
Keeping some aircraft for historical purposes is to be encouraged. I don't have an answer to those that also make a living out of doing so.
tipsy
Keeping some aircraft for historical purposes is to be encouraged. I don't have an answer to those that also make a living out of doing so.
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Re: Squires Gate Vulcan for the Chop
It is sad to see an aircraft such as the BLK Vulcan 'reduced'. However, what chance did it ever have being located near to the Irish Sea? Irrespective of how much time, effort and money would have been spent on it, the Vulcan at BLK was doomed as soon as it landed there unless it was placed under cover in a controlled environment. People must put emotion to one side. What should have happened is that an agreed number of Vulcans should have been preserved and the rest 'reduced'.
I would rather have two or three well preserved aircraft types in an environment where their longevity can be given in tens of years rather than in less than ten years. To carry out minimal maintenance and storage procedures on aircraft such as the Vulcan and hoping that the ravages of time will have a limited effect on structures, systems, gear, transparencies etc is rather like the little chap sticking his finger in the hole in the dyke. Please, lets stop wasting our time on lost causes and getting all emotional. Those agencies either selling or donating aircraft must ensure that the people taking the aircraft on are fully researched as to their capabilities to preserve or operate aircraft. I have seen far too many aircraft rotting being 'cared for' by well intended people in museums and this has got to stop. By the way, rotting aircraft in museums is not limited to smaller operations, just look at the external state of the Belfast at Cosford as an example.
I do blame the authorities. Rather than have a controlled preservation process, the UK has massive holes in aircraft types that should have been preserved (Whitley, Stirling (complete Halifax... not composite), operational Wellington, Hampden, Albemarle etc etc etc, there are no complete originals left.
Our US cousins had a different approach (and the money I have no doubt), they appear to have done the Noahs Ark approach and preserved in most cases at least one of each type (see Wright Patterson Museum as an example).
My point is that when a view is being taken to preserve aircraft types, we must look at retaining a limited number of all types so that future generations will benefit and we should not allow numbers of complex aircraft such as the Vulcan to be placed in the care of dedicated, enthusiatic amateurs who through no fault of their own will only delay the process of such aircraft returning to their natural state.
Gets off soap box and dons tin hat
Temps
I would rather have two or three well preserved aircraft types in an environment where their longevity can be given in tens of years rather than in less than ten years. To carry out minimal maintenance and storage procedures on aircraft such as the Vulcan and hoping that the ravages of time will have a limited effect on structures, systems, gear, transparencies etc is rather like the little chap sticking his finger in the hole in the dyke. Please, lets stop wasting our time on lost causes and getting all emotional. Those agencies either selling or donating aircraft must ensure that the people taking the aircraft on are fully researched as to their capabilities to preserve or operate aircraft. I have seen far too many aircraft rotting being 'cared for' by well intended people in museums and this has got to stop. By the way, rotting aircraft in museums is not limited to smaller operations, just look at the external state of the Belfast at Cosford as an example.
I do blame the authorities. Rather than have a controlled preservation process, the UK has massive holes in aircraft types that should have been preserved (Whitley, Stirling (complete Halifax... not composite), operational Wellington, Hampden, Albemarle etc etc etc, there are no complete originals left.
Our US cousins had a different approach (and the money I have no doubt), they appear to have done the Noahs Ark approach and preserved in most cases at least one of each type (see Wright Patterson Museum as an example).
My point is that when a view is being taken to preserve aircraft types, we must look at retaining a limited number of all types so that future generations will benefit and we should not allow numbers of complex aircraft such as the Vulcan to be placed in the care of dedicated, enthusiatic amateurs who through no fault of their own will only delay the process of such aircraft returning to their natural state.
Gets off soap box and dons tin hat
Temps
Last edited by Tempsford; 15th Jan 2006 at 11:12.
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Re: Squires Gate Vulcan for the Chop
Temps,
To a certain extent you are right, it must be some sort of "British thing" for you only need to look at some of the very old buildings around our small island that have fallen to the roar of the demolition ball.
Re the Vulcan at EGNH, I only remarked that it was sad to see this happen, for if you intend to keep something, rather than purchase and let stand, it would have been far better to purchase and have the ability to preserve, Bateson however is known as a slightly, should we say "Eccentric sort"
Vfr
To a certain extent you are right, it must be some sort of "British thing" for you only need to look at some of the very old buildings around our small island that have fallen to the roar of the demolition ball.
Re the Vulcan at EGNH, I only remarked that it was sad to see this happen, for if you intend to keep something, rather than purchase and let stand, it would have been far better to purchase and have the ability to preserve, Bateson however is known as a slightly, should we say "Eccentric sort"
Vfr
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Re: Squires Gate Vulcan for the Chop
Temps,
Right answer, wrong logic...
The USAF or USAAF had no more a 'preservation policy' than the RAF...but they do did ahve a far great desire to see airframes sotred or reduced to scrap under theri control ..eg Davis Monthna, Kingsville etc etc plus a re-use programme...like targets in China Lake etc which has permitted the long term storage of huge numbers of aircraft at near zero cost...
So B-17s/ B-29s/ B-24s/ B-25s and so forht were able to be stored for longer at low cost and either sold on or displyed much later...for example the relative scarcity of the B-47 and B-36 shows a comparable lack of importance being attached to such large cold war warriors.... or KC-97s, the list is long.
What is important is that we learn not to let this occur again.. even types that today may be mundane and boring should be preserved in a limited number of examples.. just how many Jetstreams will be saved? so that a complete historical record may be preserved.
To be honest its better to see s single well preserved cockpit rather than a poorly maintained enitre aircraft, especially in the case of the Vulcan where there are other much more complete examples being preserved nationally...let alone in the US.
Right answer, wrong logic...
The USAF or USAAF had no more a 'preservation policy' than the RAF...but they do did ahve a far great desire to see airframes sotred or reduced to scrap under theri control ..eg Davis Monthna, Kingsville etc etc plus a re-use programme...like targets in China Lake etc which has permitted the long term storage of huge numbers of aircraft at near zero cost...
So B-17s/ B-29s/ B-24s/ B-25s and so forht were able to be stored for longer at low cost and either sold on or displyed much later...for example the relative scarcity of the B-47 and B-36 shows a comparable lack of importance being attached to such large cold war warriors.... or KC-97s, the list is long.
What is important is that we learn not to let this occur again.. even types that today may be mundane and boring should be preserved in a limited number of examples.. just how many Jetstreams will be saved? so that a complete historical record may be preserved.
To be honest its better to see s single well preserved cockpit rather than a poorly maintained enitre aircraft, especially in the case of the Vulcan where there are other much more complete examples being preserved nationally...let alone in the US.
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Re: Squires Gate Vulcan for the Chop
Interesting concepts mfaff, but my logic is not totally incorrect.There are one off remaining types at Wright Patterson and they do appear to have a policy of preserving types. The luxury that the US has is areas where long term storage is possible and therefore steps can be taken to preserve various types. The US also tend to have larger numbers of types manufactured than the UK and their 'reducing' policy is possibly more tightly controlled than in the UK.
My concern is that we have gone too far the other way and have a number of examples of the same types in various states of decay across the UK. The pictures above of the Vulcan remind me of similar demises(?) of aircraft over recent years and I am afraid that this will comtinue to be the case for years to come. I agree with virtually all you say except your words about cockpit preservation. Rather like stuffed heads on a wall, I always wonder what happened to the rest of the animal.
Temps
My concern is that we have gone too far the other way and have a number of examples of the same types in various states of decay across the UK. The pictures above of the Vulcan remind me of similar demises(?) of aircraft over recent years and I am afraid that this will comtinue to be the case for years to come. I agree with virtually all you say except your words about cockpit preservation. Rather like stuffed heads on a wall, I always wonder what happened to the rest of the animal.
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Re: Squires Gate Vulcan for the Chop
See also 'BA Collection at Cosford' thread which is linked to what is being discussed here. Picture of a Vulcan being 'reduced' on that thread as well. I can also remember another Vulcan being 'reduced' at CWL and for me, one of the worst examples in recent years..the Hendon Beverly.
Temps
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Re: Squires Gate Vulcan for the Chop
Temps,
Sorry to disabuse you the notion of a 'collections' policy of the USAF.. its a relatively new policy...
The policy was of keeping important aircraft as a way of 'selling' the Air Force.. to boost enrollment.
It was only in the arrival of the late 70s that a 'policy' of the collection was established...and so they ransacked every corner of the US to complete what they had....
AFBs were stripped of gate gardians and trainig airframes etc...
If you want to see what an effective policy is look at the Smithsonian.. they have a policy, they scout out particualr airframes to keep...
I agree that the RAFM have not been as disciplined as one would like. nor funded as well as could be hoped...
As to heads on the wall...rather that than total extinction..
Sorry to disabuse you the notion of a 'collections' policy of the USAF.. its a relatively new policy...
The policy was of keeping important aircraft as a way of 'selling' the Air Force.. to boost enrollment.
It was only in the arrival of the late 70s that a 'policy' of the collection was established...and so they ransacked every corner of the US to complete what they had....
AFBs were stripped of gate gardians and trainig airframes etc...
If you want to see what an effective policy is look at the Smithsonian.. they have a policy, they scout out particualr airframes to keep...
I agree that the RAFM have not been as disciplined as one would like. nor funded as well as could be hoped...
As to heads on the wall...rather that than total extinction..
I'matightbastard
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Re: Squires Gate Vulcan for the Chop
I can't stand to see her in her death throes, so here's some pics from an earlier time. She still looks like crap, but not as much.
BTW, does anyone know if Bateson ran Batesone's toy shop up near the GPO in town?
...ok, One picture
BTW, does anyone know if Bateson ran Batesone's toy shop up near the GPO in town?
...ok, One picture
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Was this Vulcan the one that dropped munitions on the Argys runway in the Falklands Island conflict, and if it is, was it the only Vulcan to see proper active service.??
Vfr
Vfr