Yes your correct Beags, Just remembered something else, before I was posted to the sqd. ( 617 ) I worked in MEAS Scampton, and an aircraft was just finishing a check, got told the window boxes where fitted, so dispensed an airman to fit selector boxes. Then when fitted went out with him to functionally check them. ( probraly trouble 4 ) remember that one Beags. Sent airman to right wing complete with dust bin. and selected two on the selector, pressed switch, did you get that I asked, no came the reply, selected five, and pressed, again no came the reply, selected ten and pressed, half way through the dispensing a head appears through the door and asks " do you know you are dropping window out off the left wing onto the hanger floor. oops. right and left selector boxes where next to each other and could easily be cross conected, and being summer both sets of hanger doors where open. Took months to find all the chaff
I did a similar trick out on the line, doing combat preps during a 'Mick'. A brand new OC Eng was wandering about outside as we were about to do a special weapon load and he'd never seen it done before. Attracted by a buzzing noise from just behind the stbd gear he went to take a look. My catcher behind the port leg reported a blank drop. There was a cough from the other side. One Wing Commander covered from head to toe in fairy dust. Merry Xmas Sir!
Nice shot though blacksheep, and as of shapes, what I could not understand, was that I was never allowed on the aircraft alone when a shape was fitted ( Nuke Trained ), I had to go with another who was familiar with the system. Being as it took two to drop the weapon, it never did make sense. It was only a shape after all.
It may have only been a 'shape' but both were treated as 'live' systems,including having a 'No Lone Zone' so hopefully, having practiced everything with a 'shape' (both aircrew and groundcrew) nothing should go wrong when working with a real weapon.
ZH875, you did not quite get the point. The chances are if I was going out to the a/c, it was to check something before I signed it off. Only needs me. I then had to wait up to half an hour to do a 2 min. job. In the mean time the a/c is still not ready for service. If it was to do with the sw system then I would not be by myself and could get on with it straight away, Shapes fitted on excercise, excercise = all running round like headless chickens, normally because the people you need have not yet arrived, and you have 8 or 9 from admin who have never been to the dispersal before and are wandering around lost. hence the half hour wait while the aircrew are at their briefing and can then spare somebody to hold your hand, or at the rugby club....don't forget your IFF code book when you leave, but thats another story
We had to go out to the live aircraft on QRA two by two as well. I thought it strange.
Post taxi checks after a zero-two and I was with another chap in the bomb bay changing an upper anti-collision beacon. I was up the front of the bay, "Old Yeller" just behind my bum, doing the job; Nez was holding the torch and minding the tools. The snoop woke up from slumber in his Tardis to find the bomb bay hatch open and voices coming from inside so he climbed up through the hatch, pistol drawn. Nez hit him smack in the middle of the white hat with a hammer. Off to Ely with a fractured skull. Live weapons make people nervous.
Nice one Blacksheep, should not have been asleep on duty. Didn't do Q when I was on Vulcans, Just sealed two aircraft at the end of the late shift. Just in case. Mind you why did they always pull the exercise when you have just finished sealing, signing, and filled in the handover book.
The only tow bar in aviation history where it was easier to leave the tow bar static - and then move the aircraft to fit it.
Oh yes - I remember one cold foggy/snowy morning on Charlie Diespersal at an airfield north of Lincoln where the Cpl MT driver got impatient when we were wrestling with one. Without prompting, and despite our screams, he decided to align the holes for one of the towing pins using his fingers. Well suffice to say he would never pick his nose with that hand again.
As I sit here typing remembering June '67 and fitting the brushes to a runway sweeper at Waddo workshops with a Vulcan tow bar pin, the 3rd finger of my right hand is still flat after trapping it between pin and the frame of the sweeper, God those tow bars were big b*****ds!
"Exercise Edom! Exercise Edom! Alert Crews to Readiness Zero-Two!" and off they'd go, taxying down to the runway threshold with all nav lights on, anti-colls flashing and landing lights ablaze. I'm surprised we didn't fit them with extra loud 'Baa-Boo' sirens as well. The whole RAF seemed like Monty Python's Flying Circus most of the time. Those public relations scrambles were the biggest Monty Python joke. Freshly painted bombers lined up on parade on the ORP, with the ground crew dressed in white overalls and polished boots. What a load of bullshit!
On one VIP "Scramble" (I think it was when the Queen Mum presented 44 (Rhodesia) with a new Standard ) 44(R) still had B1As and I was still trying to pull out the port side Simstart cables when he started rolling. We called it "wheel dancing" because you stood on the wheels to reach the plugs. It got too dodgy so I baled out with one cable still in place. The aircraft towed the Simstart Trolley out onto the runway until the cable eventually gave way and off he went down the runway with the trolley heading for the Sleaford road. Fortunately he was the last to roll, but I trust the VIPs, Gentlemen of The Press and invited guests were suitably impressed.
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So, you compromised the safety of an aircraft and crew during a QRA scramble, eh? Bet that went down well in the Cold War - was there an inquiry to work out what had happened?
Most of the groundcrew on 35 Sqn in 1977 would have died of shock if they'd been told to wear white overalls and polished boots!
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Blacksheep
Quote:
"Exercise Edom! Exercise Edom! Alert Crews to Readiness Zero-Two!" and off they'd go, taxying down to the runway threshold with all nav lights on, anti-colls flashing and landing lights ablaze. I'm surprised we didn't fit them with extra loud 'Baa-Boo' sirens as well. The whole RAF seemed like Monty Python's Flying Circus most of the time. Those public relations scrambles were the biggest Monty Python joke. Freshly painted bombers lined up on parade on the ORP, with the ground crew dressed in white overalls and polished boots. What a load of bullshit!
An element of truth here except we never heard "Exercise Edom! Exercise Edom! Alert Crews to Readiness Zero-Two!" The box would squawk and we were up. Then "Attention atten t i o n .........." and we had gone. The Tower used to fire different coloured vereys at us to signify the required state which could have changed even as we drove down. Good shot one day and the 35 sqn wagon collected a RED under the car. Thereafter they were told to fire away from the cars!
Quote:
On one VIP "Scramble"
and there were many, they always got airborne but not in the way Mr Avro intended. A proper scramble would advance from cockpit readiness power on to engines start and scramble. A VIP Mass Rapid would advance from cockpit readiness power off to scramble with engines running up as we moved but no instruments as the power had not been on. More than one aircraft got airborne on less than 4 engines. Remember one scramble at Finningly were a Mark 1a got airborne on 2 with the 3rd thrusting as he cleared the airfield.
BEagle,
Quote:
Most of the groundcrew on 35 Sqn in 1977 would have died of shock if they'd been told to wear white overalls and polished boots!
You are showing your youth.
Do you remember AVM Parks in the BoB Film? White flying suit? Ground crew wore whites like that We had 4 flying suits. Two were heavish summer flying suits in light blue (Mk 2s). One was Temeperate climate thin slate grey (Mk 4) and similar cloth to the later Winter Flying Suits (Mk 3). And we also had a 'proper' winter flying suit. This abomination was issued as a pair of over trousers with detachable braces and a long belted parka with a cheap wollen liner. The parka was loosely stitched to the trousers so that we could separate them and do some creative tailoring during EinE. Everyone separated them and wore the parka as a rain proof - scruffy wasn't the word.
Anyway our staish, Mr Pastry, decreed that one Mk 2 flying suit was to be properly badged and used for day to day flying so we were smartly turned out in case visitors saw us. The second was to be kept for 'best' when VIPs visited. The very smart slate-grey was to be kept for VVIPs.
To a man everyone removed badges from two flying suits and claimed to be acting in accordance with the Geneva Convention (1949). We won. Mr P then arranged for flying clothing to fasten the badges on in such a way that we could rip them off. B*****ks. Loose article hazard etc etc, We won.
I think white suited groundcrew eventually faded away in the late 60s.
Was on the finger pans at Scampton in around 75 with Hamish off 617 and a wanabee crew chief. We had snatch cables for everything by then, though not for the "extra" crewchief. The new boy had also got p1ssed off with his headset coming disconnected from the long lead so had clipped his headset to the lead with a couple of split rings and he also securely fastened his throat mic . Come the scramble for survival and Hamish and the new boy are on finger 4. Hamish signals me and the other liney to pull the chocks and dive behind the plinth. A short time later Hamish and his apprentice wave the crew off and head for the plinth to miss the jetwash. Shortly after that the new boy is dragged by the neck towards the runway at ever increasing speed. Fortunately he was a portly lad (he had earned the nickname TG (Tame Gorilla)) and the long lead snapped before his neck did. We hardly larffed at all
So, you compromised the safety of an aircraft and crew during a QRA scramble, eh?
We had standing instructions to bale out it if the leads were stuck. In the real thing one would of course, chance it for Queen and Country, but not for an exercise - or even worse, a 'Royal Command Performance'. It was often the case that we would be walking on the wheels of a slowly moving B1A but when you had to start running it was time to leg it. From my point of view the crew compromised the safety of a poor, hard-working Junior Magician by rushing off while he was still pulling the plugs.
I wonder what H & S would make of it these days.
Quote:
except we never heard "Exercise Edom! Exercise Edom! Alert Crews to Readiness Zero-Two!"
Nor did we when we were doing our month on Alpha dispersal, but there was a lighted status board about half way between the QRA caravans and the dispersal so we could check what we were in for as we ran out to the aircraft.
The tannoy message would echo all around the station in the NAAFI, messes and other places. It was because QRA ground crew were permitted to leave Alpha three at a time to go to the Airmen's Mess for meals or the NAAFI shop for soap or toothpaste. A nice pint of 'soap' would often go down a treat if we'd just had an alert and weren't expecting another one very soon.
Quote:
I think white suited groundcrew eventually faded away in the late 60s.
Old groundcrew never die, we slowly fade away.
Last edited by Blacksheep; 22nd Aug 2007 at 08:24.
I was watching the old "Hole in the Ground" film (for reasons we won't go into, but suffice to say it wasn't prompted by the resurgent North Sea Bear population ) where after a limited strike, the Observer Corps are plotting fallout drift. The 'phone rings, apparently it's the RAF wanting to know which airfields are safe to use. Now to the question. This is presumably post V-Force strike as we've already seen the white beast rocketing skywards. Was the Vulcan (in particular) NBC proof in the modern sense and, if so, could it be turned around for a second go under fallout conditions or not?
I know I'm going to get a finger-wagging for asking such "special" questions, so ducking now! Don't need detail, just satisfying the old grey cells (or should that be Green cells?)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Meat
This is presumably post V-Force strike as we've already seen the white beast rocketing skywards. Was the Vulcan (in particular) NBC proof in the modern sense and, if so, could it be turned around for a second go under fallout conditions or not?
White beast suggests the pre-low level days.
Under the Bomber Command War SOP 1st edn crews were instructed to contact the nearest British Embassy and Air Attache or Bomber Command on HF and seek instructions.
I believe there would have been sufficient Red Beard and possibly even Yellow Sun that had missed the first raid to a second strike. Given the assumption that the Soviet Union had insufficient weapons such that a 2nd strike was possible it is also possible that fallout would have been sufficiently low that crews could have survived long enough for a 2nd mission.
Once the force was forced to go low level I believe the Soviet capability had reached the point that a second strike was most unlikely to be mountable. The advice to call home was removed from the 2nd Edn.
Was the aircraft NBC proof? Possibly. It would fly with cabin airs off and crew on 100% oxygen. After flight of course there was no NBC clothing, respirators or anything until the early 70s, a gap of some 10 years. Lots of what ifs and most highly dubious.
That time we ran out to the QRA aircraft and there was no status on the board - a real scramble! - once the aircraft had trundled off to the runway it dawned on us that we had no standing orders for what to do next.
The only thing to do was stand out in the open and wait to be vapourised...
Fortunately it was a Bomber Controller cock-up. I suppose a Vulcan could land on a glass runway, but who would have been around to do the reload?
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Blacksheep, in your time any thoughts of a 2nd strike had vapourised.
The plan was to move families into the empty bunkers across the road and for the airmen to shelter in the basements of the barrack block.
One exercise, the off-duty ops officer was floating in the open air swimming pool. He was a 'real' flying officer with about 10 years seniority as OC Ops would never write him up as fit. Anyway we are now at fallout black.
Along comes a plod in landrover and hairy blue - "Oy, its fallout black get in a shelter."
"I know cpl, that is why I am in the swimming pool washing off the fallout. Now either get it the water or trot off to a shelter somewhere."
Quote Pontius Navigator; Was the aircraft NBC proof? Possibly. It would fly with cabin airs off and crew on 100% oxygen. After flight of course there was no NBC clothing, respirators or anything until the early 70s, a gap of some 10 years. Lots of what ifs and most highly dubious.
What about Op Aroma. Were these airframes specialy prepared?
The plan was to move families into the empty bunkers across the road and for the airmen to shelter in the basements of the barrack block.
Basements in the barrack blocks? There's that Monty Python again!
(An emoticon for laughing until you cry would be useful here.) As most of us realised, not many seconds after the last V-Bomber departed - perhaps even before any of the bombers managed to get away - a nuclear device would explode within a few hundred yards of directly above our heads. Not that any of us would know anything about it...
The youngsters here should realise that in the fifties and sixties we truly believed that this was going to happen. Nuclear Holocaust was inevitable. The war may have "Cold" but it was war real enough - one reason why after the Cuban Crisis we mad twenty-somethings lived like there would be no tomorrow.
Thank God that Joan Baez and Bob Dylan won it for us.
Vulcan Tow Bars
and he also securely fastened his throat mic 
. Come the scramble for survival and Hamish and the new boy are on finger 4. Hamish signals me and the other liney to pull the chocks and dive behind the plinth. A short time later Hamish and his apprentice wave the crew off and head for the plinth to miss the jetwash. Shortly after that the new boy is dragged by the neck towards the runway at ever increasing speed. Fortunately he was a portly lad (he had earned the nickname TG (Tame Gorilla)) and the long lead snapped before his neck did. We hardly larffed at all 
) where after a limited strike, the Observer Corps are plotting fallout drift. The 'phone rings, apparently it's the RAF wanting to know which airfields are safe to use. Now to the question. This is presumably post V-Force strike as we've already seen the white beast rocketing skywards. Was the Vulcan (in particular) NBC proof in the modern sense and, if so, could it be turned around for a second go under fallout conditions or not?
