I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lincolnshire
Age: 70
Posts: 9,422
At the risk of monopolising this thread this evening - goon suits!
Goon suits were a fairly recent innovation in the Vulcan force around the early 70's I think. At that time I was Cyprus based and thus ineligible.
One of the first V-force training films we saw in the early 60s had a silver Mark 1 Vulcan on an Atlantic navex, so see what it was like over the Atlantic. Its callsign was Pedro Zebra. One thing that was never explained in the script was how it ran out of fuel. It ditched and we were then entertained to a modern version of 'The Sea Shall Not Have Them". The navigator managed to get his nav bag into the dinghy and the captain set up a watch roster with the plotter maintaining a log. The crew had 5 sarah beacons so could radiate for a total of 40 hours. They had to calculate when to switch on the first beacon having allowed about 5 hours for overdue action, the Shackleton SAR launch andc transit. Oh happy days.
When we asked a 10-ton budgie driver how far out he could rescue us we got the good news. Lightning jock 60 miles. Vulcan crew 10 miles.
SmoketooMuch, quite possibly. My logbook is at work but I think that I may have left Waddington by Oct 69.
August 1969 was a busy time - or was there some connection between these events we never saw at the time. Sometime around the 26th of August 1969 an exercise was initiated for the Cyprus based Vulcans during which the aircraft were loaded with 21 x 1,000 pounders. The wing subsequently launched and dropped the bombs on the range at El Adem, Libya.
We were told later that the exercise was connected with the Russians helping Gaddafi take control in Libya.
Odd thing about this was the live bombs and the fact that we were issued pistols. The only time is saw a firearm issued to aircrew.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lincolnshire
Age: 70
Posts: 9,422
Brain fade. It was Mike d'Arcy who was the stn cdr in Aug 69. He tried to kill me in the Lanc on his first take-off as he careened down the runway. We needed two new main wheel tyre as the treads were so badly worn - sideways. He had not been briefed that the throttles were not synchronised.
FEBA,
You've got me. Our car was a C-reg Hillman Minx, pale green. Once a month it was necessary to visit the consulate in Hull. Roads were not very good then and we had to use the A134 through Thetford to visit the consulate in Kings Lynn and then go via Boston, then a back road on the B1192 to the A153 until we found it quicker to use the A17 as far as the A607 to Leadenham. Nice pubs along the Lincoln Edge, especially the George at Leadenham for an evening meal or the Horse and Jockey at Waddington. Met lots of interesting people, Prager, Britain, etc. Then A15 A631 to Doncaster, take in Goole, and then across to Hull. Boring bit that A63 winding all that way through industrial sites. Getting home was much quicker, down hill all the way, Woolfox Lodge, Cottesmore, Wittering, sorry I meant Stamford, Huntingdon and home via Bentley Priory, oops I mean Bushey and Stanmore.
Just realised there is something wrong with the dates here. Some of the Cottesmore Vulcans left for Akrotiri, with a Scramble take-off, on the 19th of March 1969. I was in XM572 (my favourite aeroplane). Obviously, since it was a Scramble, several aircraft left at this time. PNav remembers that Cottesmore was required to generate 16 aircraft for the August 1969 exercise. Did Cottesmore still have 16 usable Vulcans at that time?
Being very busy exploring the kebab houses and the Kokinelli in downtown Limassol I rather lost track of events in the real World!
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lincolnshire
Age: 70
Posts: 9,422
Boing, was the Cyprus incident anything to do with Stacey the stn cdr. A right one he was.
After each NEAF nuclear exercise he would order a re-generation in the conventional role. It would take about 5 hours to remove all the nuclear gear and rearm with 1,000lb. The black-hand gang had to work like the proverbial stowing away 16 by 950s and loading 16x21 x 1,000lb. command used to watch with glee waiting for him to fall flat on his face. He never did.
His favourite trick was to treat VIPs to a sunrise silver service breakfast on the cliffs as the dawn broke.
Kept the Ladies Room bar fully stocked and out of bounds. Similar bar down the air terminal. After a flight we were invited into the bar at the air terminal for a debrief. There was a steward from the mess and Stacey had one beer with us before departing. Ask the barman for whatever you want he said. Generous to a fault.
We found out later that he ran both bars on mess guests.
Boing,
OK more brain fade. You are probably right and it may have been Wittering who certainly would not have been able to generate 16 Blue Steel.
I know the generation was not limited to Waddington and Finningley. I guess you are right about Cottesmore though. 9 or 35? I was 35.
Stacey was the Station Commander. Certainly an impressive looking individual. Never had any "social" interaction with him. I remember he used to drive a white painted Trabant as his service vehicle. Now, you would think a white Trabant would be fairly noticeable. Unfortunately, Bill Southcombe failed to notice this conspicuous machine as he burned down the long straight to the beach clubs at warp speed in his new mini. Bill got the honour of a private interview with the Station Commander.
Stacey did seem to be a very "cool" individual. One evening Akrotiri was "attacked" by a Marine unit. The Officer's Mess bar was crowded when the Marines entered with dummy grenades and weapons. They were, of course, in camo. gear with blackened faces. After their attack, which would have wiped out a large proportion of the Akrotiri aircrew, Stacey calmly identified the officer in charge and brought the Marines a drink!
Were you there when the Canberra, returning to the field with a hang-up, tossed a 25 pounder into the NAAFI car park? Somebody should have told the pilot that you do not break into the circuit with a hung up bomb on board.
OK more brain fade. You are probably right and it may have been Wittering who certainly would not have been able to generate 16 Blue Steel.
IIRC Wittering ceased Victor ops in 1968. early '69 at the latest. I know that Scampton was involved as I discussed the event with a couple of mates on 27 & 617. Finningley?, OCU was just wrapping up there, first Scampton course was in Jan 1970. Did they have any weapons at Finningley when the OCU was there?
The 25lb PB in the NAAFI car park had a V-Force dimension. The pilot was an ex Vulcan copilot (the name can be forced out of me by the judicious application of pints of Bass). He and I did a bit of QFI'ing together in later years.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lincolnshire
Age: 70
Posts: 9,422
Yellow Sun Yes, Finningley had nukes. Waddington had to provide 4 crews for Finningley. Always gave them a head start over Cottesmore as both had to generate 24 aircraft. One exercise though the engineers excelled themselves. The total generation for Waddington was 31 and we were thus short of 7 target packs.
I think we were given some uncovered targets from the other wings but as it was only a Mickey Finn no real material was involved. On that exercise we sent crews to Finningley to man their 4. Then we had to send 3 more as they generated another 3. We now had some 27 crews committed and Finningley had to send OCU crews to Waddington to cover later generations. This was towards the end of the Mk 1 era and the final build up of the Mk 2. It was probably mid-67.
Another exercise comes to mind. This time a high level Vulcan declared an emergency with an engine problem overhead. Clanging of bells and the crash crews were ready in seconds - and then had to wait 20 minutes before the big "Manta Ray" reached ground level!
That wouldn't have been Karup in June 1972 would it?
You really started something important here. One day -which is coming at a lick - there will be the same number of Cold War guys left as there are today from the BofB. We need to get their stories before it is too late. Why don’t you press for this to become a sticky? Did I dream that four QRA Victors were launched and moved out for two hours before they turned round? As one of the co-pilots concerned said to me ‘You go a long way in two hours’. The SAC and the Blinder mates must have some tales to tell as well, but that may be a dream too far.
I totally agree with you John, however if this thread is awarded 'sticky' status then it should be moved to Aviation history and nostalgia. Happy new year to you FEBA
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lincolnshire
Age: 70
Posts: 9,422
John Farley,
One of the stories I heard involved the Victor Training Flight. Not the final conversion unit but the initial one in the mid-50s.
Apparently they used to do long range radar recce sorties to the east. Flying on a western heading at 45,000 feet and 0.9 mach nothing could catch them. The jets from 2ATAF would be launched to delouse them as they came streaming over the border.
Thanks for that. I don't know how to post a link, but if you check out Op Jiu Jitsu at the address below you will read about related exploits a few years earlier by a guy I was proud to work with many years later - John Crampton - who operated some USAF B45s in RAF markings over Russia more than once.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lincolnshire
Age: 70
Posts: 9,422
John,
I think the Victors were about 55 or 56. I know they did not take part in Suez as it was a Valiant main force do and only one sqn had radar bombing capability. They were the ones that hit their target. The Victor, as far as I can remember, was pre-OCU.
About the B45s I found a similar article that mentioned a broad sweep of RB47 down through Siberia 'just to see what happened'
Why we ever had a cold war I don't know. The Yankees seemed to give plenty of provocation. When the Sovs fired back they were always presented as the bad guys.
Talking of 'balls', ever hear the 'offer' by the Royal Navy to get its submarines into the deterrent game in the early 60s? Sail a sub into the White Sea as far as Severomorsk and drop off some Red Beards. The plan was not received with open arms as it meant laying the 'mines' about a week or so before they went pop. This was pre-Dreadnought and not exactly retailliation.
Nimrodnosewheel on the Bucc thread reminds me about bombing accuracy. On 35 at Akrotiri, in one 6 month period, the 50% accuracy figure for practice laydown on the raft at Epi using visual or radar for the whoe squadron was 300 feet. One crew achieved 280 and one crew achieved 320. The other 8 were all on the money. I told NEAF that I would no longer be reporting laydown bombing accuracy. They did not blink.
With regards the RN contribution, I seem to recall they went as far as building some mini submarines to actually carry the bombs back in the mid 1950's but they were scrapped shortly after. Now who would volunteer for a suicide mission like that?
Spy Flights of the Cold War by Paul Lashmarr Published by Sutton Publishing Ltd, 1996 ISBN 0 7509 1183 2
The author was the producer of the BBC "Timewatch" documentary "Spies in the Sky" which covered much the same ground as the book, but with interviews of some of the participants (both sides).
Shadow Flights by Curtis Peebles Published by Presidio Press Inc, 2000 ISBN 0 89141 700 1 or 2
Covers similar ground, but with more empahasis on the U2 operations.
Finally,
The Hidden Hand by Richard J. Aldrich Published by John Murray Ltd., 2001 ISBN 0 7195 5423 3
A mighty tome!, 645 pages, but worth a look. The book examines the workings of the intelligence community throughout the cold war and contains a few real gems.
Probably a good place to start looking for these and similar books would be on:
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lincolnshire
Age: 70
Posts: 9,422
Beagle,
I accept what you say but my lecture included all the comms proceedures, authentication, weapons, profiles, routes, targets, and recovery bases. It was fully illustrated and I was surprised the ONLY issue was copyright of the photographs.
One of the best was a low level shot of a Valiant from a Turkish web site.
There was absolutely nothing previously classified at Top Secret Atomic that I was not cleared to discuss. I was even cleared to give the absolute release parameters of the WE177 and the escape manoeuvres.
Lots of details came from AWRE's own web site.
Stories from the Kipper fleet would also make interesting reading, especially the air miss with a MAY. They didn't complain and we didn't report it.
