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Old 12th Dec 2003, 03:51   #41 (permalink)
 
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I did. You still collecting stuff? I shot photos of his T-33 display at Biggin one year. Probably still have the negatives, if not prints. Sea Fury too, I think.

Treadders: Also photographed Peter Phillips in Islander and BA-4B, at a Goodwood display. As I recall, his Islander routine included some asymmetric stuff not quite Bob Hoover with both feathered, but very impressive. Wasn't it while doing an (aerobatic?) routine in Africa with a Trislander that Peter had a bad accident? BTW, the Chilton tangent that we darted off on in the 'Significant British lightplane' thread, combined with this one, reminded me that Manx Kelly used to own 'AFSV. It was painted red/black/white at the time, and carried the name 'Barbara Ann' or somesuch. Must have been around the time he was also involved in the short-lived Owl Racer that crashed fatally into the Thames Estuary.
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Old 12th Dec 2003, 04:12   #42 (permalink)
 
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Flying Lawyer
John Mclean was killed over Morcambe Bay practicing for the start of season, it was a three ship display and they were practising a loop with the third guy going in the reverse direction and going through the middle of the other two - unfortunately they didn't make it, John and Andy (Walbridge?) were both killed in this.
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Old 12th Dec 2003, 04:22   #43 (permalink)
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OK,

I never made it to the loft, found my press release list of pilots from 1970-1979 at the office! I knew I had seen it somewhere..

So..

Manx Kelly - 1970/71/72/73/74 all as leader. Manx was tragically killed while flight testing a Stolp Acroduster in the USA, 1976 I think.

Iain Weston - 1970/71/72/73/74/75. Sadly no longer with us.

Neil Williams - 1970/71/77. Neil was killed in Spain while ferrying a Spanish built Heinkel 111 in 1977. I seem to remember it was today, the 11th December. Thats a strange co-incidence if it was.

Ray Hogarth - 1970

Barry Tempest - 1971. Barry's still around and doesn't look a day over 21

Mike Thompson - 1971

Rod Freeman - 1971

Mike Findlay - 1972/73/74/75/77/78. As mentioned, he's in France growing grapes?

Andrew White - 1972/73

Tim Mills - 1974. In Australia and contributing to this thread.

David Perrin - 1974/75/76/77/78. Flew as the solo pilot after this. Tragically killed in a Helicopter accident in 1982

Colin Woods - 1975/76. Sadly no longer with us.

Graham Rutson - 1976/77. Working for the CAA as a Flight Ops Inspector.

Bob Thompson - 1976/78. Currently Chief Test Pilot for Martin-Baker

Marcus Edwards - 1978/79. Instrumental in getting the Sea Vixen flying again, but sadly no longer with us.

George Smith - 1978

Mike Cairns - 1978/79. Sim Instructor in Florida?

Rod Rea - 1979. Still around, flying for TNT?

Alan Dix - 1979

Brian Lecomber - 1979. MD & Chief Pilot of Firebird Aerobatics, and STILL displaying, with John Taylor of Skyhawks/Unipart Duo fame ! Both of them don't look a day over 21 either.

Thats all the info I have, but would be interested to know what happened to the team after 1979, and who the pilots were.


Z

Last edited by Zlin526; 12th Dec 2003 at 04:41.
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Old 12th Dec 2003, 05:24   #44 (permalink)
 
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Z526: Outstanding! But who knows what treasures you may still have in the loft? Do risk Mrs Z's wrath and take a look.

News of Manx's death came during a display at Booker. I was there as writer/photgrapher and sat in on a pilots' briefing given by Neil, and I remember he interrupted the brief with the tragic news from the States.

As I recall Neil and Doug Bianchi departed this world over the same weekend both great losses to the historic/airshow movements.
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Old 12th Dec 2003, 05:52   #45 (permalink)
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Aerohack,

The books of Neil Williams certainly had a great influence in my future aviation career. My parents gave me 'Airborne' as a Christmas Present, and 'Aerobatics' followed on my 14th birthday. I still read them occasionally as if they were newly bought.

My first flight in the aeroplane that Neil wrote about and I now regularly fly was on the day he died.
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Old 12th Dec 2003, 06:22   #46 (permalink)
 
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It does make you wonder if there is enough archive film out there
to make a cracking documentary. Sadly it has personnal loss but there also great escapes like the Weston 'incident' and a real story to be told about fine aviators.
Maybe it's a flight of fantasy which needs to be transfered
to Hollywood and a large dose of American rewriting!
I envisage a 'new' Robert Redford and team pitched in duels against an opposing team with dastardly tactics!
The temptation to 'steal' the Bond Bede sequence but with three Pitts inverted through a dusty Californian hanger door really appeals!
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Old 12th Dec 2003, 15:56   #47 (permalink)
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I have an idea that Alan Dix may have been on the B-17? Name rings a bell...

The Weston pic is truly awesome; I saw it long before I read about the circumstances.

And how about that other great "ouch" photo? Lewis Benjamin in a Super Tiger poised vertically about 2ft off the ground after flicking in to a spin during a crazy flying routine... both flew again.

A documentary or a book of airshow memories and photos is a splendid idea. Lecomber has written a couple of good articles on the subject...
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Old 12th Dec 2003, 16:27   #48 (permalink)
 
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<<And how about that other great "ouch" photo? Lewis Benjamin in a Super Tiger poised vertically about 2ft off the ground after flicking in to a spin during a crazy flying routine... both flew again>>

Can't think of that picture without calling to mind the 'thought balloon' that was added to the copy on the wall of the old Tiger Club tea room at Redhill: "If this doesn't kill me, Norman (Jones) will!".
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Old 12th Dec 2003, 17:00   #49 (permalink)
 
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Mike Denteth flys the Utterly Butterly wing walkers at Vic Normans
Rendscombe field
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Old 13th Dec 2003, 22:40   #50 (permalink)
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'Man in the Sky' was a short film about David Perrin, the Rothmans solo pilot. It mentions that he operated from a "lonely farm strip on the south coast, close to Beachy head"

Anyone know where this was? The only strip I know down that way is at Friston, where Piece of Cake was made during the 80s.

Z
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Old 14th Dec 2003, 00:30   #51 (permalink)
 
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Weston 1972 mid air:

I chaps,

I remember sitting on a blanket next to my dad's Messenger when I saw this happen. (was only a child). It had a lasting effect on me and I can remember it as if it were yesterday. The WW2 crash truck came screaming across the airfield, very narrowly missing us in the process..! I can still remember the silence for a few seconds as it happened.

Incidently, my 'ol man went on to organise the Avon air days at Weston for the next few years, One year we had the Reds, a Lightning and Concorde display.. not to mention all the aerobatic greats - Happy Days..

Kingy
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Old 14th Dec 2003, 01:15   #52 (permalink)
 
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Broadening the theme a little to "others", I`m surprised nobody has mentioned the Zlin Duo of James Black and Carl Schofield, and their mirror flying.Superb to watch, as any Zlin display is/was. Bloody hard work on limited power, but graceful aerobatics--- none of this "angry bee" stuff!!
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Old 14th Dec 2003, 04:53   #53 (permalink)
 
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Seconded, sycamore perhaps one of the best mirrors ever. Your 'angry bee' reminds me of the Pitts' UK debut (if you don't count Betty Skelton at Gatwick in 1949) at the World Aerobatics Championships at RAF Hullavington in 1970. The U.S. team was mostly equipped with S-1Ses, which then seemed tiny and very angry bee/wasp like, while the Russians had big Yak-18PMs and 'PSes. I think it was John Blake who likened the Yaks to grand pianos, the Pittses to xylophones an analogy that has stuck in my mind ever since.
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Old 14th Dec 2003, 07:03   #54 (permalink)
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I remember seeing the Zlin duo at Biggin Hill one year, think it was early 80s when they got a bit too close, and banged their tailfins during a mirror formation. Not much damage, but just shows how close they used to fly!

Oh to see that type of aircraft again in displays...An aircraft that needs skill to fly accurately, not like the modern Extras etc (Move the stick around the cockpit and the world rotates).

Talking of others, anyone remember the Tiger Club Stampe duo with Pete Jarvis and Carl Schofield? Also flown by Brian Smith and Pete Kynsey. Another demonstration of how to fly smooth, graceful aerobatics in an aeroplane that wasnt exactly over-endowed with power or aerodynamics. One of their Stampes displayed at Old Warden this year.


Z
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Old 15th Dec 2003, 17:26   #55 (permalink)
 
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Re: "Broadening the theme a little to "others", I`m surprised nobody has mentioned the Zlin Duo of James Black and Carl Schofield, "

I mentioned them some time ago ! :

"And James Black and aforementioned Neil Williams of Aerobatics International - Zlins G-AWJX & AWSH & Pitts S1 G-AZPH - seemed to be everywhere"

- didnt know that Schofield was the 3rd member.Cant remember them in the '80s, but certainly the '70s.

I thought a great mirror was flown by the JP equipped "Gemini Pair" , it became their trade mark. Also the Patrouille de France who slow rolled it, looked very elegant in the Magisters.

Also Zlin requested what happened to the Roths after '79. I posted the 1980 team earlier:

1980 (last season?) No1 Marcus Edwards,Brian Lecomber, John McClean,Rod Rea
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Old 15th Dec 2003, 20:31   #56 (permalink)
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Another excellent display that arose from the Rothmans ashtray (sorry, the puns get worse!) was the "Jaguar Duo" - or some such soubriquet that involved somebody who's name I have entirely forgotten, ex F-4 driver? in Brian Lecomber's lovely Stampe, counterpointed by Brian himself in the Extra 230.

Fantastic combination of the old and the new, lovely classic aeros from the Stampe, and cutting edge unlimited stuff from the Extra - tumbles and knife-edge spins were fairly new then and as I recall Brian was out-classing people in the ever more common Sukhois and the like.
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Old 15th Dec 2003, 20:34   #57 (permalink)
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Quote:
BADX, Crashed in Lanzarote, 26.5.78, Pilot killed (who??)
For the record, Zlin, I believe that was George Smith on his first year with the team, and I seem to recollect it was a spin from a 'knife-edge' final turn?
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Old 17th Dec 2003, 03:32   #58 (permalink)
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BOAC,

Many thanks for that. I suspected it might be. Any idea who was piloting 'BAEA when it crashed after take off at Sywell in '76?

Treadigraph,

Recall John Harper flying the Stampe at some stage, maybe others too, but John is not ex Military. BBC, but not RAF!
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Old 17th Dec 2003, 04:27   #59 (permalink)
 
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Neil William's G-AZPH

The original rudder from G-AZPH now adorns the back of my aircraft and will be at Shuttleworth tomorrow!

I'd love to see the David Perrin film, saw one movie about him in 1992, guess it is the same one, tremendous footage.

Also saw the Rothman's tour of the middle East vid, too. That was also very entertaining.



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Old 17th Dec 2003, 07:14   #60 (permalink)
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Zlin, don't think it was John Harper as I know his reputation quite well... and think he was campaigning one of the Goode Yak 50s at the time. Fairly certain about the F-4 bit - but it wasn't John Allison!

Cheers

Treadders

Last edited by treadigraph; 17th Dec 2003 at 07:29.
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