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Game Over 457 scam?

Old 24th Apr 2017, 07:10
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Originally Posted by Band a Lot
Thanks for the reply, the 457 type visa is needed in Australia (a few have abused it)


But this paid less bit gets to me, as it is not true (in MOST cases).
It is needed. And I'm pretty sure I'm actually the only non permanent resident working in ATC Brisbane ha ha. But luckily the reform doesn't affect me personally as I really love it here
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Old 24th Apr 2017, 08:43
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Originally Posted by sucati
It is needed. And I'm pretty sure I'm actually the only non permanent resident working in ATC Brisbane ha ha. But luckily the reform doesn't affect me personally as I really love it here


The "other" parts of reform such a citizenship now affect Australians that have foreign partners on the very expensive Partner Visa more. Now they need to be in Australia for up to 7.5 year to apply for citizenship ( all others can apply under new laws at 4 years). That seriously effects our partners travel, work and education aspects of life.

And sadly most are ill informed or care less than to make false statements with zero proof.

Had you personally been underpaid I would have told you how to correct it and or reported it myself.

But after many accusations of "underpaid" aviation staff on 457 visa's never has a slice of proof been supplied and I have repeatedly asked.
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Old 24th Apr 2017, 09:03
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Most 457 Visa holders send as much of their income home as possible. Most of them like Australia so long as it provides them with a better wage and work benefits than what they can get back home, which is often the case.

Money sent overseas means less money for investing in local training.

There is a similar "scam" operating within the education industry where the Australian government offers grants/incentives to education institutions for bringing in overseas students.

Our own politicians are just stupid.
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Old 24th Apr 2017, 09:11
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Tail wheel,

It is very easy to change job descriptions and responsibilities. The persons on the visa rarely complain. I have seen parachute tandem masters who got a visa by being classed as "soccer coaches". There was a European helicopter pilot in Alice Springs (he had a bare CPL) who's visa said "tour guide".

There is nowhere near enough people to police the system. Please don't think that the "rules" stop the system being abused.
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Old 24th Apr 2017, 10:25
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Originally Posted by cattletruck
Most 457 Visa holders send as much of their income home as possible. Most of them like Australia so long as it provides them with a better wage and work benefits than what they can get back home, which is often the case.
I will call you out on this!

Most 457 are from India or surrounding countries and yes it is "customary to look after family" by sending some money (a lot in local money for them).

But I can guarantee you from what I see the goal is to get PR (permanent residence) followed by Citizenship and get family members to Australia not send money back "home".


Most of these are not in aviation but in IT and Medical and many actually studied in Australia for many years at a massive cost to their parents.


*** Now I am happy to talk exact fact and figures on this subject if you are willing to listen and "understand".
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Old 24th Apr 2017, 10:55
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and get family members to Australia
...and then claim welfare, just like my new neighbour who's been on it for 4 years so far.

As I said before, our politicians are just stupid.
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Old 24th Apr 2017, 14:00
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Originally Posted by cattletruck
...and then claim welfare, just like my new neighbour who's been on it for 4 years so far.

As I said before, our politicians are just stupid.

You happy to make this a conversation? I am as you/r statements are wrong.
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Old 24th Apr 2017, 20:08
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Senate Committee: An inquiry into the impact of Australia’s temporary work visa programs on the Australian labour market and on the temporary work visa holders.

Report: A National Disgrace: The Exploitation of Temporary Work Visa Holders Report 17 March 2016: report direct link [.pdf]

Inquiry landing page with more information about the committee, terms of reference, submission etc.
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Old 24th Apr 2017, 21:09
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Originally Posted by Band a Lot
But I can guarantee you from what I see the goal is to get PR (permanent residence) followed by Citizenship and get family members to Australia
And this is the bit that confuses me. Wife and kids can come on 457, but how the hell do they then get all their brothers and sisters out here?

Band a lot, you and I have been around the immigration process in depth (and spoken on other forums) and I have never seen a visa which allows you to import your siblings.
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Old 25th Apr 2017, 06:35
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I flew into Cairns about 6 months back the taxi driver was an Indian on a 457 visa, the taxi was owned by his brother in law. 457's then lead to permanent visa.

They could then say get a brother here on a Student Visa to study medicine, then a Temporary Graduate Visa to work as a Doctor, then bring out his wife and 5 kids as dependants.


Doctor happened to be on skills shortage list:-


So Doctor now can apply 457 or 189 both lead to Permanent residence, his family are already here so no Partner visa fee of $7,000 for her.

All funded by a taxi!

But correct there is no sibling visa as such.

This from the other forum:-


Step by step family visa guidance required please
Hi everyone,
Currently I am on 485 temporary graduate visa in Australia. Now I want to bring my family residing overseas (my wife & two kids). For that I need step by step guidance and documentation required.
Any help in this regard will be highly appreciated.

Thank you

Last edited by Band a Lot; 25th Apr 2017 at 06:53.
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Old 25th Apr 2017, 09:15
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Indian national gets $114,000 of fines dropped.
https://tenplay.com.au/news/national...nes%20forgiven

I hate the privilege of paying tolls for using private roads too, but I'm not as lucky because unfortunately my mistake is I can comprehend Australian laws.

As I said before, our politicians are just stupid.
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Old 25th Apr 2017, 09:55
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The court heard Mr Vasishth arrived as a student, but was now married to an Australian woman with whom he has a child.

$10 says this Australian woman legally fits the criteria to be called such, and has a very Indian background that is not required to be mentioned.
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Old 25th Apr 2017, 13:37
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And as a Purple Cone Head. You know, I know a bit more than average Joe about migration to/in Australia.
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Old 25th Apr 2017, 21:23
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Talk or rorting the system applies to an absolute minimum of employers and workers. Are the Government going to stop all driving because a small percentage speed or drive inebriated?

Some years ago a senior Immigration official told me the 457 Visa system was being seriously rorted. He claimed (from memory) 1.7% of employers were investigated and just under 1% were prosecuted or faced administrative action.

If we assume a whopping 5% of 457 Visa holders are rorting our system and should be repatriated, that currently leaves 90,000 trade and professionally qualified workers employed in their trade or profession, productively working in Australia, for Australians.

The latest changes to the skilled temporary worker system are intended to significantly reduce (and presumably eliminate) that number of productive workers and increase Government income from a raft of Visa and other fees.

I suspect it will be impossible now or even over the next decade, to find an additional 90,000 Australian professional and trade qualified and experienced workers, in addition to supplying the additional numbers required to meet increased labour market demands.

Apprentice numbers are down 40% in a decade. Entry to essential professional qualifications at University (doctors, nurses etc) are also significantly down.

Changes to the skilled temporary worker visa system was solely a short sighted political decision to appease the Unions and the left and center left voters.

Our national skills deficit will get worse, impacting building, manufacturing, health and other services and further erode our value added/manufactured exports. Expect to pay far more for trade and professional services unless the National and State Governments invest far, far more into promoting and providing quality vocational training at a cost all Australians can afford.
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Old 25th Apr 2017, 22:05
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Originally Posted by Band a Lot
And as a Purple Cone Head. You know, I know a bit more than average Joe about migration to/in Australia.
That is for sure, the dept must quiver in fear when they see your number on the caller id
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Old 25th Apr 2017, 23:07
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If apprentice numbers are down 40% in a decade, this would be because apprenticeships are not available in the numbers they were previously. I doubt there is a vacancy offered for an apprentice that is not filled. The reasons for the decline in apprenticeships available is something that obviously needs drastic attention. I'm pretty sure that any more university places made available for future professionals to study would also be quickly filled although the course requirements and costs might need tweaking.
Our national skills deficit gets worse because we do not do enough to train the young up and comers who are already here but instead take the short term fix and import workers. Skilled migration should be used to fill unexpected shortcomings, not as the norm. We had a mining boom and the level of tradesmen, engineers and the like could not reasonably have been foreseen so we sought skilled migrants. At the same time, we should have seen a huge ramp up of training of Australian youth. These newly skilled people should now be in our workforce and so the need for skilled migration should be almost zero in the current economic climate but is it?
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Old 26th Apr 2017, 00:00
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The one killer of apprenticeships in my view is the "repair by replacement" mentally that the western world has adopted. Once upon a time your mechanic/electrician would remove a defective part and repair it. Supervisor would check it and it would be re installed. Now the defective part is sent to a reconditioning service and then returned. The mechance doesn't know how to do anything other than undo and do up bolts.
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Old 26th Apr 2017, 00:29
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Aircraft Worker 1 is an employee who isundertaking up to 38 hours induction training.
$672.70 + supa
$692.10 after 3 months
Most apprentices now are adult or months away, from that after year 12.
Min starting pay $626.64 + supa and from memory the trade school wanted them for 13 weeks a year.

So why pay 13 weeks ($8,146.32) over a year, when if you pay $65.46 a week extra ($3,403.92 a year) you get 13 weeks extra labour?

By the bureaucrats this (an apprentice term 4 years), the house has bolted.

It then takes government incentives to start the cycle all over again, but to fill the gap we need 457 type workers.

They will come for 2 reasons LOT's $$$ for a shortish term

or
A reasonably affordable salary with the option to stay permanently with their family.

The people that think we can turn on and off our requirement to fill our self made skills shortages are dreaming because we don't pay large expatriate wages.

** Kelly the problem with your mining boom training ramp up is that bubble burst about 2 years ago, so in 2 years time the newly trained will be released into an already depressed market.

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Old 26th Apr 2017, 03:16
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Not quite sure what you're saying here - if you pay not much more than apprentice wages you can get an extra 13 weeks work, but no-one is prepared to take the job?

This is the main rort with 457 visas (and H1B in the USA) - advertise the job at a pay rate where you don't get any applicants, then import someone who will work for the lower rate.

Related is the problem where no business is prepared to train someone. Apprentices are not supposed to be cheap labour, they are an investment in the future of your company, or at least your industry.

By far the highest users of 457 visas is the IT industry, where this is very common. An unwillingness to train, and an unwillingness to pay reasonable rates mean there are a lot of people looking for work while people are brought in on 457 visas.
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Old 26th Apr 2017, 04:13
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From a financial point of view it is not worth putting on an apprentice (most leave at end of term or soon after - so rarely an investment in your company).

The first few years they certainly are not worth that amount in most cases, so they are put on as an aircraft worker (not apprentice) for a slightly higher rate but work 13 weeks more.

While an Australian company can have say a LAME employed at $120,000 they can advertise for another at the award rate of around $52,000. It is not likely they will get any takers.

But they can not get in a guy on a 457 and pay him $52,000 - the 457 must get the same as the other LAME being $120,000.

That assumes they have the same licence.
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