Where is the revenue Alan? (EK alliance)

[busdriver007]

Originally Posted by Tuck Mach

Bula-

Bula, an associate entity is a 'minority' one, and one that is controlled is not a minority entity under AASB128? JQ Asia may be a 'minority' entity but strangely QF choose to report it in JQ Group, therefore they consider it effectively under the control of the group. The only 'minority' (thus associate entities) reported under AASB 128 are JQ Vietnam and JQ Japan. I suspect you know this already...

That may be what is publicly stated but Qantas owns 99% of Jetstar Asia. 51% of Jetstar Asia was bought for SIN$1 by Dennis Choo. Well known Singapore underworld figure!
Qantas has a 33% ownership of Jetstar Japan(by law) but seems to be the only one propping it up! What was that quote about Alan Bond?

[Tuck Mach]

Dennis didn't pay a cracker,he had the right passport.

Dennis may have paid a dollar!

The whole Pan Asian pivot or whatever the whiz kids called it does not hold water. It never did.None of the entities make a real profit, there has never been a dividend, and in the case of JQ Asia a business having been rebuilt with QF shareholders money for over a decade.

The source of JQ Asia 'profit' has been leasing aircraft, owned and sourced by Qantas to JQ Australia.

One suspects that the EK 'Alliance' is a similar loss leader for the 'group'. Corporate sources suggest that the little general is viscous in his prosecution of dissenters, voicing one's concerns leads to the street, curbside and unemployment. It is highly probable that there is not a shred of return for Qantas shareholders, unless of course they were managers in on the big fix...

CEO QF international and domestic
Two company secretaries on the same day..

[Rated De]

The more things change the more they stay the same....So a five year random walk into bizarro land sees QF return to a well established route having lost half their passengers.

FY19 will see QF bank $80 million a year...
Never did a release detail any such revenue flow from Dubai..

Someone knew what was up

[QuarterInchSocket]

He knew. He did it anyway. Legalised book-cooking. The turnaround fallacy will be paraded forevermore. The Emirates partnership serving as one of many mechanisms that went into achieving his warped outlook. The kicker? No one in a control position cares! He is $25mil better off because "the shareholders" thought him worthy. Made a companion to the OA in addition

[Groaner]

Interesting, no-one has got it yet.

The real reason for the QF/EK alliance (from the QF point of view) is... the FF program. A fabulously profitable business almost invisible to the outside world, and which now has seen off any threat of EK establishing a significant FF program in Oz.

[AerialPerspective]

Originally Posted by Lezzeno

AerialPerspective I hope Olivia is paying you overtime for working Easter or are you really Geoffrey Thomas?

Oh please... sarcastic much... so we're only allowed to have an opinion if it conforms with yours??? No, I am not GT, have no time for that pretender but I do see one airline making billions and another spending billions but making nothing. Can't be THAT much wrong with the way QF is operating if it's making wads of money.
By the way, I don't work for any of the airlines any more.

[Rated De]

The real reason for the QF/EK alliance (from the QF point of view) is... the FF program. A fabulously profitable business almost invisible to the outside world, and which now has seen off any threat of EK establishing a significant FF program in Oz.

In part this is correct. Frequent Flyer businesses are entirely dependent on the airline itself. Revenue can be generated from point sales to corporate entities, but ultimately the 'business' of the repeat customer is entirely contingent upon the airlines itself having 'seats' to redeem.

In accounting for the frequent flyer business airlines basically sell a seat at marginal cost, that would probably fly empty.

In October 2011 (two odd weeks before the grounding) Alan and Qantas signaled their surrender of Qantas International, as they had already established a 'decline narrative' to suit their industrial campaign.


The problem for Qantas with little international network remaining after the changes requested of the International Air Services Commission, was that a rush of point redemptions by frequent flyers would not only place a huge squeeze on revenue and remaining asset valuations but further destabilise the already precarious position Qantas put itself in.

The amount of points held by Qantas members is ever growing, accumulated largely through domestic flights, to be usually redeemed in exchange for a seat(s) on international flights.

Put simply it is stupid to expect people join frequent flyer program to get cheap groceries. Ever wonder why Woolworths and QAN had a frequent flyer redemption? Qantas needed, in light of its shrinking network to have alternatives to get rid of points.

You will see it increasingly difficult to redeem points for a seat, there will be further dilutions of redemption value as the points liability continues to grow and the 'game changing' 787 (already 600 operating-not sure what is going to not have already changed?) will remove additional capacity from the market as 787 replace 744 one for one.

Perhaps as such, skywards is the only way to burn off a points balance and actually go somewhere. The key to whether it actually benefits the Qantas 'group' accounts and with the changes announced in Australia with respect to credit cards it is likely that the EK alternative may be a way to get a seat.

The issue remains as the title of the thread implies is that Qantas never made a dollar from the hastily cobbled together EK 'partnership'. They know it and I can certainly attest their competitors knew it all along.

[blow.n.gasket]

An interesting thread , to say the least.
Overheard a theory recently , trying to explain why Alan would sign up to what appears to be from the outside , a dud deal for Qantas , reference the Qantas Emirates code share alliance.
Circa early 2013 , the Dixon ,Singleton , Carnegie ,
( along with Harvey and Gregg ) consortium dumped their speculative takeover bid for Qantas.
Apparently , the rumour intimates that the takeover putch was relying on a foreign capital injection from Dubai.
Now , looking at timelines the famous Alan Joyce , Tim Clark , Wolgan valley " love in " was in May 2012.
The time that the " consortium " was pushing hard for a takeover.
The theory suggests that if the consortium money was to come from Dubai , that could only mean one person, one entity .
So the theory suggests Clark saw an opportunity , once notified by his boss and summoned Alan to Wolgan.
One can only speculate what was layed out on the table at the "love in " .
The suggestion of "sign this alliance deal or the takeover consortium will get their money and you're out of a job " , was one of the theories I heard suggested.
So once Clark had Alan over the barrel and got his agreement to the " deal " it took until April 2013 to sort the fine print and approvals out.
It was around January 2013 that Dixon et al , realise their quick pump and dump operation was a dead duck.

[Rated De]

Overheard a theory recently , trying to explain why Alan would sign up to what appears to be from the outside , a dud deal for Qantas , reference the Qantas Emirates code share alliance.
Circa early 2013 , the Dixon ,Singleton , Carnegie ,

The deal was contingent on financing. It needed the acquiescence of key work groups.


Your theory is very close to the truth as I understand it.

Mr. Joyce had been in Singapore scouting for an alliance with Tamasek in the period immediately prior. I'm told literally weeks.

Did Tim Clark see Mr Joyce coming? I think it highly likely.
Having suffered an own goal with the 'terminal decline' Qantas was desperate to stem the losses in FY12-13. Code share revenue would presumably fill the gap and with street talk suggesting a bid and the sole remaining shareholder of note very close to stopping out, time probably was of the essence. Had that block provided the liquidity, Messrs Dixon et al were odds on. Competitor airline management were astounded Qantas would abandon solid routes through Asia. They promptly added capacity.

As the thread title indicated, public accounts show no revenue or margin improvement for Qantas. The 'transformation' of Qantas largely a result of falling fuel prices and depreciation changes.

Where exactly Qantas gained anything remains to this day a pertinent relevant and interesting question.

Correlation is not necessarily causation, but the absence of any public actualised revenue gain and a rush back to Singapore suggests that the thread is very relevant, if one cares to look.

Subsequently, it appears others are counting too...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-10-1...b-idea/9040916

[blow.n.gasket]

Having suffered an own goal with the 'terminal decline' Qantas was desperate to stem the losses in FY12-13.

The rumours as to what was behind the "terminal decline " era are also "entertaining" to say the least.
Do a bit of research behind Dixon , GAAM , which entity controlled the leases of all those 747's & 767's that got Victorvilled after GAAM got sold .
How the hell do they get away with portraying the " wee fella " as a paridigm of business acumen????