Virgin Australia concerns
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: AUSTRALIA
Age: 68
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I would have thought the B737-600 been a better choice over the EMB ,remember the
Clowns bought the EMB 170 and EMB 190 ( Two different engine types) .
If the village idiots had stuck with B737 600/700/800/ ,one type, common crew (pilots and F/A'S, engineering and tech services training , aircraft spares , the list goes on.
Also another great decision from the ring master was to sell the engineering spares, engineering hangar in BNE along with the land option for further hangar expansion ( I guess Engineering is not a core Assett to Virgin ).
Does any one know what Virgin actually owns or is it all leased
Clowns bought the EMB 170 and EMB 190 ( Two different engine types) .
If the village idiots had stuck with B737 600/700/800/ ,one type, common crew (pilots and F/A'S, engineering and tech services training , aircraft spares , the list goes on.
Also another great decision from the ring master was to sell the engineering spares, engineering hangar in BNE along with the land option for further hangar expansion ( I guess Engineering is not a core Assett to Virgin ).
Does any one know what Virgin actually owns or is it all leased
Snakescharma
I'm not saying that all those decisions were not wrong. I totally agree, and in hindsight perhaps Qantas was right in passing on JB.
My only point was that when he took over, it wasn't valued at 5.8B$ as someone else suggested.
As a aside, the CEO puts the plans to the board and the board approves them. Clearly something hasn't gone right, and as much as JB should be held responsible, the board should share the blame for failing to hold him accountable and set quantifiable targets that ones performance can be measured against.
They have all failed the shareholders, and more importantly the staff
I'm not saying that all those decisions were not wrong. I totally agree, and in hindsight perhaps Qantas was right in passing on JB.
My only point was that when he took over, it wasn't valued at 5.8B$ as someone else suggested.
As a aside, the CEO puts the plans to the board and the board approves them. Clearly something hasn't gone right, and as much as JB should be held responsible, the board should share the blame for failing to hold him accountable and set quantifiable targets that ones performance can be measured against.
They have all failed the shareholders, and more importantly the staff
BPB, yes they bought 170's and 190's but they got rid of the 170's and replaced them with the ATR's
They have different engines to the 190 as well, plus different everything else. At least with the 170 they had common crews with economy of scale across a bigger fleet, they had a sim and everything in place.
The 737-600 wasn't a successful aircraft, it is much too heavy and cost double what an Embraer cost. Same crews, so yes the same argument used in the para above could easily be applied to justify the 600, however on balance it didn't go that way - for a bunch of reasons.
Atlas, what makes you think the Embraer wouldn't work on resource type strips?
underslung engines yes are more susceptible to FOD but that comes down to a bunch of factors, including strip maintenance, and they have plenty of performance, but you are correct they need cash with none in sight.
Aussie FO, I am with you hoping they stick around long term.
They have different engines to the 190 as well, plus different everything else. At least with the 170 they had common crews with economy of scale across a bigger fleet, they had a sim and everything in place.
The 737-600 wasn't a successful aircraft, it is much too heavy and cost double what an Embraer cost. Same crews, so yes the same argument used in the para above could easily be applied to justify the 600, however on balance it didn't go that way - for a bunch of reasons.
Atlas, what makes you think the Embraer wouldn't work on resource type strips?
underslung engines yes are more susceptible to FOD but that comes down to a bunch of factors, including strip maintenance, and they have plenty of performance, but you are correct they need cash with none in sight.
Aussie FO, I am with you hoping they stick around long term.
The thing I don't understand is that JB saw at close range all the mistakes that Ansett made with their Noah's Ark approach to fleet planning. Repeating the same mistakes only ten years later is perplexing. How on earth did his board let him do that ?
Should have just struck an agreement with Alliance instead of buying Skywest. I suspect the margins were too thin for an Ejet on mining runs. Sounds like the only reason VA is involved is oncarriage.
The 737-600 was a failure and it's not been replicated as a MAX.
The E2 was quoted as 25% more efficient so one would think if the Ejet was a compelling product both QF and VA would have turned up to the roadshows when Embraer visited last year. Neither did.
Lets face it, if it was making lots of money Virgin wouldn't have gotten rid of it in a pink fit.
The simpler the group fleet the better. On carriage? Get someone else to do it and let them wear the risk.
2010 fleet should have gone like this:
737-700/800/900
777
With orders for:
737-MAX7/8/9/200
787's
NEO 321 Looks impressive.
Ansett had a hotch potch ageing fleet. In the end if you can't afford the latest gear your days are numbered.
The 737-600 was a failure and it's not been replicated as a MAX.
The E2 was quoted as 25% more efficient so one would think if the Ejet was a compelling product both QF and VA would have turned up to the roadshows when Embraer visited last year. Neither did.
Lets face it, if it was making lots of money Virgin wouldn't have gotten rid of it in a pink fit.
The simpler the group fleet the better. On carriage? Get someone else to do it and let them wear the risk.
2010 fleet should have gone like this:
737-700/800/900
777
With orders for:
737-MAX7/8/9/200
787's
NEO 321 Looks impressive.
Ansett had a hotch potch ageing fleet. In the end if you can't afford the latest gear your days are numbered.
In my opinion keeping the older 700s with the bigger engines was their biggest mistake, and no matter what way you play it, the EJet whilst nice to ride on has been a mistake. Yes there is a place for a 100 seater in Oz, but all the ones that work in OZ do so because they are old, cheap and depreciated. The E-Jet was brand new - thus expensive to either buy or lease, and doesn't burn a heap less fuel than the 737-700. The 700 also has the potential to carry 30 odd more pax, and you don't need a whole new set of crew to fly it, FAs, GSE as well as parts etc.
The whole Jet vs T/Prop discussion is a null point - ask your average friend without any aviation knowledge when they book on VA or QF website to say ROK if they know they had booked on an ATR/737 or Q400, no one would even know.
E-jet is also apparently experiencing increased PDAs, engine wear and engineering issues as they age. By all accounts American, Air Canada are dumping theirs, and JetBlue is also looking and removing them as well. Crew love it, pax love it, but the accountants (and engineers) hate the thing. Engineers say
Every
Mechanical
Breakdown
Requires
An
Electrical
Reset
Couple of old articles about the problems Jetblue have had with them.
JetBlue CEO Laments Embraer 190 Costs | Commercial Aviation content from Aviation Week
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...g-cost-problem
The whole Jet vs T/Prop discussion is a null point - ask your average friend without any aviation knowledge when they book on VA or QF website to say ROK if they know they had booked on an ATR/737 or Q400, no one would even know.
E-jet is also apparently experiencing increased PDAs, engine wear and engineering issues as they age. By all accounts American, Air Canada are dumping theirs, and JetBlue is also looking and removing them as well. Crew love it, pax love it, but the accountants (and engineers) hate the thing. Engineers say
Every
Mechanical
Breakdown
Requires
An
Electrical
Reset
Couple of old articles about the problems Jetblue have had with them.
JetBlue CEO Laments Embraer 190 Costs | Commercial Aviation content from Aviation Week
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...g-cost-problem
Yes the DPS slots.
Ah the game change program.....where vai outsources to tiger who outsource to qf who outsource to anyone and then all airline management in Australia get what they want...big bonuses and no Australian employees. That game change program?
Ah the game change program.....where vai outsources to tiger who outsource to qf who outsource to anyone and then all airline management in Australia get what they want...big bonuses and no Australian employees. That game change program?
Join Date: May 2011
Location: BNE
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No problem RC; we have all done it. But back to the topic of Virgin Australia, today's daily update from Airline Route indicates that Malindo Air intends to fly daily 737-800 services from BNE-DPS-KUL from the end of this month. It all sounds a bit preliminary, but may add pressure on VA's DPS operations after the TT shemozzle. I think that would also be the only direct service between BNE and Malaysia.
"Malindo Air in the GDS and the week of 26FEB17’s OAG Schedules Analyser update filed preliminary schedule for Brisbane, tentatively scheduled to commence on 31MAR17. The airline plans to operate Kuala Lumpur – Denpasar – Brisbane routing on daily basis, on board Boeing 737-800 aircraft.
OD157 KUL1805 – 2110DPS2200 – 0540+1BNE 738 D
OD158 BNE0715 – 1145DPS1245 – 1545KUL 738 D
Reservation is currently not available on its website. Service on Kuala Lumpur – Denpasar routing is also to see an increase from 2 to 4 daily, based on current listing, instead of from 2 to 3 daily."
"Malindo Air in the GDS and the week of 26FEB17’s OAG Schedules Analyser update filed preliminary schedule for Brisbane, tentatively scheduled to commence on 31MAR17. The airline plans to operate Kuala Lumpur – Denpasar – Brisbane routing on daily basis, on board Boeing 737-800 aircraft.
OD157 KUL1805 – 2110DPS2200 – 0540+1BNE 738 D
OD158 BNE0715 – 1145DPS1245 – 1545KUL 738 D
Reservation is currently not available on its website. Service on Kuala Lumpur – Denpasar routing is also to see an increase from 2 to 4 daily, based on current listing, instead of from 2 to 3 daily."
& just like many Chinese airlines do, seem prepared to undercut Virgin nonstop flights BNE-DPS + do they also offer more checked baggage ? Virgin yields will surely drop on this route, where they sometimes have more than 1 flight a day, or is this just in school holidays ?
