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Old 7th Jan 2017, 21:36   #1 (permalink)
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ADS-B ground stations

Does anyone know if there is a list of the current and proposed ASA ADS-B ground station sites published anywhere? The ASA site seems to only give the coverage. With the mandate approaching I thought a list of sites and expected coverage at say 3000 ft would be available.
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Old 8th Jan 2017, 00:10   #2 (permalink)
 
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Don't think that info has ever been published but the 5000ft coverage map on the website makes it fairly easy to work out where a lot of them might be. The large gap up the north Qld coast is interesting - one would expect a few stations might still have to go in along there.
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Old 8th Jan 2017, 03:16   #3 (permalink)
 
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Old 8th Jan 2017, 04:10   #4 (permalink)
 
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As I said previously at typical helicopter VFR altitudes there is no coverage over about 90% of Aus.

That's why it's prudent to keep the second radio on 121.5. Normally will get an instant answer in an emergency from a high flying airline .

The CASA/AMSA recommendation of the area frequency will quite often result in no communication.

It's called airmanship - taught to me by Jim Hazelton.

And what's happened to Adelaide? No risk of a collision there? And Darwin?

Last edited by Dick Smith; 8th Jan 2017 at 04:21.
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Old 8th Jan 2017, 04:19   #5 (permalink)
 
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I love it. From next month an IFR training organisation at Cairns must fit ADSB but the Government has saved the money on the other half of the equation.

A bit of political hypocrisy goes a long way.
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Old 8th Jan 2017, 06:05   #6 (permalink)
 
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Dick, they only show ADS-B coverage. SSR is still available at Adelaide and Darwin.
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Old 8th Jan 2017, 12:22   #7 (permalink)
 
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SSR is available in the other capital cities as well.
So why the need for expensive ADSB at these locations?
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Old 8th Jan 2017, 12:54   #8 (permalink)
 
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For SYDWAM around SY and on Mt Macedon to provide coverage when the Macedon radar is out - terrain shielding by Macedon significantly reduces coverage to the northwest of ML. Cheap redundancy.
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Old 8th Jan 2017, 14:32   #9 (permalink)
 
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Dick, your logic is wasted here mate. All you'll get is excuses and 3rd world solutions from people who haven't seen how a 1st world aviation nation delivers a service.
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Old 8th Jan 2017, 21:21   #10 (permalink)
 
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Dont mean to keep beating the ADSB-2 drum, but aircraft such as those in the US and Europe will be using ADSB-2.
Thus, per mandate:
"Transmissions from unapproved equipment configurations could mislead aircraft with ADS-B IN capabilities and could also mislead ATC." Such as ADSB-2 aircraft.

“If an aircraft carries ADS-B transmitting equipment which does not comply with an approved equipment configuration, the aircraft must not fly in Australian territory unless the equipment is
(a) deactivated; or
(b) set to transmit only a value of zero for the NUCp or NIC.”

NIC set to zero means null location. ASA has already stated that ADSB-2 aircraft must transmit 0 NIC

From the ASA maps, you can interpolate coverage below 5000 feet as being pretty minimal. In the US, ADSB will not be required for at/below 3000 feet, because of the coverage issue.
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Old 8th Jan 2017, 21:53   #11 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Dont mean to keep beating the ADSB-2 drum, but aircraft such as those in the US and Europe will be using ADSB-2.
No need to apologize. I think you should keep up te pressure on this.
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Old 8th Jan 2017, 21:56   #12 (permalink)
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I have seen the coverage maps above. What I would like to see is a list of existing and proposed locations. A coverage map for 3000 ft would be of interest.
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Old 8th Jan 2017, 23:12   #13 (permalink)
 
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Oz at ADSB-0...whats in your ac?

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Old 8th Jan 2017, 23:16   #14 (permalink)
 
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In looking at the Boeing timeline above, (Airbus similar) please note this requirement from ASA:

Note: 'accepted'...while 'accepted' by ATC, there are caveats, such as position integrity. In addition, in the US and Europe, UAT is used below 10K feet.



From a Jeppeson seminar on ADSB mandate in the US.



It is not only the GA aircraft that will feel the pain from the ADSB mandate...

Last edited by underfire; 8th Jan 2017 at 23:40.
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Old 8th Jan 2017, 23:42   #15 (permalink)
 
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What has that got to do with the topic??
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Old 9th Jan 2017, 01:51   #16 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
What has that got to do with the topic??
wondered how long it would be before you stalked my post.

Thanks!

Perhaps read the thread for relevance, maybe post #11, as relevance is not something you are accustomed.
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Old 9th Jan 2017, 02:14   #17 (permalink)
 
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Underfire, I am sick and tired of clicking on new posts on a topic of which I have an interest, only to find you have gone off on yet another tangent, pushing your ADS-B 2 barrow.

If you want to make a point about it, start your own thread. Stop hijacking others.

If you think stalking is trying to stop herring-merchants waffling on on a tangent, then so be it.

Quote:
Perhaps read the thread for relevance, maybe post #11
is not relevant to the thread, it is merely supporting your tangent!
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Old 9th Jan 2017, 05:01   #18 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
at typical helicopter VFR altitudes there is no coverage over about 90% of Aus.
Yes but in fairness of that 90%, helicopters do not operate in at least 70% of it
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Old 10th Jan 2017, 00:32   #19 (permalink)
 
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Unfortunately the coverage charts are indicative only and don't show the name of the ground station location so it's a little hard to work out where you will/won't have covereage. When suggested to Airservices that they overlay the ADS-B coverage at different altitudes on the PCA, one was told that they didn't have the capacity to do it! Take 1000 people out of that organisation after being told this means that there is zero chance of ever seeing a decent coverage chart or list of proposed ground stations, unless you're privy to ASTRA discussions.

And Dick, whilst I agree with your airmanship comments I must add to your comment on the VFR coverage for ADS-B. ADS-B is only mandated for IFR from Feb for most operations. There is no VFR mandate only a Mode-S (ADS-B compatible) upgrade requirement if you replace your existing Mode-C. I agree it would be nice to be under surveillance all the time if you have spent the $$$ to upgrade your VFR machine.

Hopefully we will see either more ground stations OR Australia using the satellite based Aireon ADS-B (https://aireon.com/resources/its-just-ads-b/) so we get full FIR coverage - for those with ADS-B antenna's able to take advantage of it.
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Old 10th Jan 2017, 01:12   #20 (permalink)
 
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Underfire, your comment "In the US, ADSB will not be required for at/below 3000 feet, because of the coverage issue." only tells some of this story.

In the US, any aircraft (IFR or VFR) operating within 30NM of an aerodrome with Class B airspace requires ADS-B, regardless of altitude. There are about 36 of these airports with Class B airspace - of course these are the busiest airports in the US.
Only telling some of the story is misleading and possibly damaging to any arguement being put to our regulator about being more pragmatic about ADS-B requirements now and into the future. I would encourage those with an interest in the US system to make sure they're well versed in it before making assertions. (https://www.faa.gov/nextgen/equipads.../requirements/)

Of course Australia doesn't make use of Class B airspace - yet, although it is promulgated in AIP in the event it's needed. With Sydney's second airport coming on line early next decade I would suggest the SY airspace will become even more complex and therefore the need to incorporate this standard may be considered. And with ML and BN new runways coming online they may follow. This would result in EVERYONE within 30NM of these airports requiring transponders and ADS-B.
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