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Old 23rd Dec 2016, 05:06   #1 (permalink)
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Air Nauru and Norfolk Island Airlines

Apparently Norfolk Island Airlines are to take up AKL-NLK after Air NZ pull out.

The CASA website is really useless for searching but I can't find an AOC for Norfolk Island Airlines.

Do they have one?
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Old 23rd Dec 2016, 05:41   #2 (permalink)
 
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Norfolk Island Airlines charter Nauru Airlines


ORFOLK ISLAND AIRLINES
PRESS RELEASE
In-light of Air New Zealand’s suddenly withdrawing its Auckland service, Norfolk Island Airlines will now bring forward its planned 2017 Brisbane service to include an Auckland service.
The aircraft for the service is a chartered Boeing 737-300 operated by Nauru Airlines.
Subject to approvals being obtained for the Auckland sector, Norfolk Island Airlines would be able to commence its weekly Sunday Brisbane – Norfolk Island – Auckland – Norfolk Island – Brisbane service in May to provide continuity for the Islands New Zealand visitors.
This new service would replace the loss of the Air New Zealand Auckland services and add much needed weekend capacity from the Australian market.
Norfolk Island Airlines has written to Senator Nash seeking an urgent meeting to discuss the New Zealand service.
Gregg Prechelt
Director
16 December 2016
For more information please contact
Glen Buffett on + 6723 52268 or email glen@norfolkislandairlines.com.au
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Old 19th Apr 2017, 12:30   #3 (permalink)
 
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Looks like Norfolk Island Airlines have started to sell tickets for AKL-NLK and BNE-NLK with a leased 733 from Nauru Airlines.
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Old 19th Apr 2017, 12:46   #4 (permalink)
 
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Sorry, but excuse me if I don't fall down laughing hysterically... the former 'Administration' of Norfolk which was dissolved by the Commonwealth went on this folly with OzJet and the Our Airline previously. From what I could gather it was a waste of money hand over fist. If Air NZ aren't flying the route any more, it's because there is INSUFFICIENT TRAFFIC to make it viable. Starting another operation isn't going to make it more viable, it's just going to make sure millions more dollars go down the Norfolk sink hole on another 'we want an airline folly'... the last one they brought in a guy who had previously run a failed airline but beside that, there were people who were on the Adminstration who's businesses benefited and the whole thing was a complete and utter waste of money and what happened in the end??? The Commonwealth stopped paying... then we have Islanders complaining that they have had their Assembly taken away... well, maybe that's because of the money that is wasted on this sort of crap and quite frankly the media reports and suggestions of bloodless genocide... please, there are people dying in real genocide around the world and it is inappropriate for this to be said. History repeats is all I can say... wonder who they'll get to run it this time. Someone from the Island who doesn't know squat about aviation but is quick to insist they are experts.
I don't want to be cruel but maybe this is why the Commonwealth government lowered the boom a few years ago. If the Island wants to be independent good luck to them but it just seems that they do these things, they cost lots of money then the hand goes out to the Commonwealth again and taxpayers on the mainland and then all sorts of accusations are made about Australia in the media.
Someone tell me if I've got this wrong???
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Old 19th Apr 2017, 13:16   #5 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by AerialPerspective View Post
Sorry, but excuse me if I don't fall down laughing hysterically... the former 'Administration' of Norfolk which was dissolved by the Commonwealth went on this folly with OzJet and the Our Airline previously. From what I could gather it was a waste of money hand over fist. If Air NZ aren't flying the route any more, it's because there is INSUFFICIENT TRAFFIC to make it viable. Starting another operation isn't going to make it more viable, it's just going to make sure millions more dollars go down the Norfolk sink hole on another 'we want an airline folly'... the last one they brought in a guy who had previously run a failed airline but beside that, there were people who were on the Adminstration who's businesses benefited and the whole thing was a complete and utter waste of money and what happened in the end??? The Commonwealth stopped paying... then we have Islanders complaining that they have had their Assembly taken away... well, maybe that's because of the money that is wasted on this sort of crap and quite frankly the media reports and suggestions of bloodless genocide... please, there are people dying in real genocide around the world and it is inappropriate for this to be said. History repeats is all I can say... wonder who they'll get to run it this time. Someone from the Island who doesn't know squat about aviation but is quick to insist they are experts.
I don't want to be cruel but maybe this is why the Commonwealth government lowered the boom a few years ago. If the Island wants to be independent good luck to them but it just seems that they do these things, they cost lots of money then the hand goes out to the Commonwealth again and taxpayers on the mainland and then all sorts of accusations are made about Australia in the media.
Someone tell me if I've got this wrong???

I don't disagree with you AerialPerspective. If Air NZ can't make ALK - NLK work I'm not sure how Norfolk Airlines will.
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Old 19th Apr 2017, 15:29   #6 (permalink)
 
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86% Australian population. About time NZ stopped doing charity work
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Old 19th Apr 2017, 22:28   #7 (permalink)
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Wouldn't be the first route that was operated for reasons other than making a profit, particularly servicing isolated islands, they are usually subsidised by concerned governments.
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Old 19th Apr 2017, 22:40   #8 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by TurboProp2120 View Post
I don't disagree with you AerialPerspective. If Air NZ can't make ALK - NLK work I'm not sure how Norfolk Airlines will.
Maybe back to the future with Queenairs....
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Old 19th Apr 2017, 22:42   #9 (permalink)
 
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Whilst I don't know a lot about the AKL-NLK market, I'd suggest that Air Nauru with a smaller aircraft (B733 vs A320) and lower cost structure could very well make a go of it. I doubt they would be rushing into it without doing proper research.
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Old 20th Apr 2017, 00:29   #10 (permalink)
 
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Whilst I don't know a lot about the AKL-NLK market, I'd suggest that Air Nauru with a smaller aircraft (B733 vs A320) and lower cost structure could very well make a go of it. I doubt they would be rushing into it without doing proper research.
Not the case I don't think. In the OzJet days, OzJet flew for a fee and the 'Island' just paid the fees and tried to make a profit out of the cost of paying O7 vs the fares it charged.
It got complicated because Norfolk Air as it was then didn't have an AOC, thus didn't have an IATA code so could not do anything beyond basically paying for OzJet to operate the route which at the time was codeshared with QF.
Likely ON couldn't care less. If they're told they'll be paid x amount of $ per hour and it covers their costs then they don't care if Norfolk don't make a profit, that's Norfolk's problem. The problem with the Island is that there are people there who, let's face it, live a pretty isolated life, they're not 'world-wise' and they think they know everything there is to know about running an airline and even with bringing people in from outside in the past they have completely fallen flat on their face and presumably will do this time as facts don't change. ON likely know that they will get their money either way because likely, as in the past, the Commonwealth will bail them out (the Island that is). To get an idea of the parochialism one only has to talk to a few people at BNE Airport some 10 or so years ago and the type of behavior exhibited by certain persons in a position of responsibility on the Island when confronted with not being able to be checked in... a tirade of foul abuse is an understatement... and everyone would know who I was talking about... that were involved. What I'm getting at is there is a certain arrogance and a demonstrated inability to learn from mistakes. Most of the people on the Island are welcoming and lovely people but there are a small band who have been down this road before and it's always ended in financial turmoil... feel free to offer examples to refute that if someone has them.
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Old 20th Apr 2017, 01:19   #11 (permalink)
 
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One day a week service it seems...

In the good old days three Super King Airs BNE-LDH-NLK-LEDH-BNE daily plus SYD-LDH-SYD connections to NLK. Extra flights in holiday seasons..
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Old 20th Apr 2017, 11:49   #12 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by AerialPerspective View Post
Not the case I don't think. In the OzJet days, OzJet flew for a fee and the 'Island' just paid the fees and tried to make a profit out of the cost of paying O7 vs the fares it charged.
It got complicated because Norfolk Air as it was then didn't have an AOC, thus didn't have an IATA code so could not do anything beyond basically paying for OzJet to operate the route which at the time was codeshared with QF.
Likely ON couldn't care less. If they're told they'll be paid x amount of $ per hour and it covers their costs then they don't care if Norfolk don't make a profit, that's Norfolk's problem. The problem with the Island is that there are people there who, let's face it, live a pretty isolated life, they're not 'world-wise' and they think they know everything there is to know about running an airline and even with bringing people in from outside in the past they have completely fallen flat on their face and presumably will do this time as facts don't change. ON likely know that they will get their money either way because likely, as in the past, the Commonwealth will bail them out (the Island that is). To get an idea of the parochialism one only has to talk to a few people at BNE Airport some 10 or so years ago and the type of behavior exhibited by certain persons in a position of responsibility on the Island when confronted with not being able to be checked in... a tirade of foul abuse is an understatement... and everyone would know who I was talking about... that were involved. What I'm getting at is there is a certain arrogance and a demonstrated inability to learn from mistakes. Most of the people on the Island are welcoming and lovely people but there are a small band who have been down this road before and it's always ended in financial turmoil... feel free to offer examples to refute that if someone has them.
Agreed. The old Norfolk Jet also left a very long line of unhappy creditors, including more than $500,000 in landing fees to the administration.

This time they are operating a three class cabin well above Air NZ prices.

Example, flying BNE to NLK on 17/06:
NIA: $277 - Economy / $525 Premium / $612 Business
ANZ: $277 - Seat+Bag / $307 - TheWorks / $372 - The Works Deluxe

Return prices are the same.

I will watch this incarnation with interest but feel it may be like watching a long slow train crash. Just don't book your tickets in advanced.
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Old 20th Apr 2017, 11:59   #13 (permalink)


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Originally Posted by Chris2303 View Post
Apparently Norfolk Island Airlines are to take up AKL-NLK after Air NZ pull out.

The CASA website is really useless for searching but I can't find an AOC for Norfolk Island Airlines.

Do they have one?
why would Norfolk Island Airlines need an AOC when Nauru Airlines, has a perfectly good Australian one.
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Old 20th Apr 2017, 12:02   #14 (permalink)
 
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Norfolk Is has passed its used by date. Not considered a major destination in this era of cheap air travel and first class resorts etc etc..

Lord Howe is stil an interesting go to place for some..
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Old 20th Apr 2017, 12:03   #15 (permalink)


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Originally Posted by TurboProp2120 View Post
Agreed. The old Norfolk Jet also left a very long line of unhappy creditors, including more than $500,000 in landing fees to the administration.

This time they are operating a three class cabin well above Air NZ prices.

Example, flying BNE to NLK on 17/06:
NIA: $277 - Economy / $525 Premium / $612 Business
ANZ: $277 - Seat+Bag / $307 - TheWorks / $372 - The Works Deluxe

Return prices are the same.

I will watch this incarnation with interest but feel it may be like watching a long slow train crash. Just don't book your tickets in advanced.
air services of some sort, have to be underwritten to Norfolk by OZ govts, otherwise the Chinese, will "move in". Do we really want China so close ?


The works & works deluxe fares above are economy, not business class I believe.
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Old 20th Apr 2017, 12:07   #16 (permalink)


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thinking about Norfolk, it would be much better if it were designated as an international destination, not an Australian domestic destination.


At present, only OZ or NZ airlines can operate in & out of Norfolk, at least from OZ end (many airlines could operate from NZ end). ON is really an Australian airline, OZ AOC & OZ rego.


If Norfolk was designated international (they do have duty free sales already) then many non OZ/NZ airlines could operate OZ mainland/Norfolk/NZ.
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Old 20th Apr 2017, 22:51   #17 (permalink)
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Way back, 1978, Nauru had its own register, C2-RN?, have they given that up now and become Australian registered?
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Old 20th Apr 2017, 22:59   #18 (permalink)

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How many international carriers operating B737 and larger does an island with a population of 2,210 need, before the last person turns out the lights? Champagne tastes on beer money?

Sydney to Norfolk Island is 1,673 km (903 naut miles) and Auckland to Norfolk Island is 1,074 km (580 naut miles).

Service frequency is the secret to a successful air service. It seems to me a Dash 8 or similar turbo prop would be the appropriate aircraft for the Sydney - Lord Howe - Norfolk Island - Auckland service?
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Old 21st Apr 2017, 23:16   #19 (permalink)
 
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Surely an Alliance F70 would of been an better fit, and maybe run twice weekly?

Think one of the pervious attempts had been on an F100 to AKL?
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Old 21st Apr 2017, 23:41   #20 (permalink)
 
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How many international carriers operating B737 and larger does an island with a population of 2,210 need,
It goes beyond the immediate travel needs of the local population - there's a significant tourist market to serve as well.
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