Pilot shortage
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Experts said fewer public service flights, falling profits and lower passenger demand could be seeing more cancellations for Canberra, while passengers in Sydney have been told staffing shortages and competing priorities on other routes were adding to the problem.
Will Qantas pilots realise and capitalise on a shortage is structural in nature and made worse by delayed training?
Leverage is everything! Ask Ryanair pilots
Last edited by Rated De; 8th Nov 2017 at 23:43.
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I think this question is redundant. There has never been a pilot shortage aside from a cyclic(sic) recruitment phase.......
Is America's airline industry headed for a major pilot shortage? | Fox Business
America Pilot Shortage Effect on Regional Flights, Ticket Prices | Fortune
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/10/air-...rning-out.html
Air Force has a pilot shortage due to lack of training resources - Business Insider
Air Force pilot shortage climbs to 2,000, inundated aviators carry 'a very heavy burden? | Fox News
https://www.seattletimes.com/busines...s-new-reality/
As the US major airlines announced they retire by 2020 substantial numbers of senior pilots, pilots ought take a pay cut just to make sure?
No doubt Australia is different as the national exceptionalism myth is still strong...
Australia is no different nor exceptional
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interesting articles.
Can you please write one that tells us what makes this pilot shortage different from all the other ones in the past where the world nearly collapsed then too.
Can you please write one that tells us what makes this pilot shortage different from all the other ones in the past where the world nearly collapsed then too.
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Can you please write one that tells us what makes this pilot shortage different from all the other ones in the past where the world nearly collapsed then too.
- Aged care provision
- Tax base shrinkage
- Asset market prices
The projected growth over the next two decades,however, show that the growth of the 65+population will be more than twice as fast as the total population
Your treasury has done the work for you. If you are inclined to do some research, feel free!
https://demographics.treasury.gov.au...on.asp?NavID=6
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I don't think you have been around in the aviation industry long enough to distinguish the smell of bullsh*t from Jet A1.
Mods please close this thread, nothing new here.
Mods please close this thread, nothing new here.
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There are too many unhappy pilots in the Sandpit and Honkers to fill jets for a number of years to come in this country.
Rex will be fine as long as captains don’t start walking faster than they are hiring cadets. Issue for Rex is they are seeing now Saab Captains taking on 777 jobs in Dubai when requirements were dropped recently. Large pay and lifestyle change which will sway many.
The issue at hand that I see now is nobody is learning to fly the ‘traditional way’. Flying clubs are going broke and are closing down all over the place. My local had sold two aircraft and made an instructor redundant in order to avoid bankruptcy. Having a look at the online booking system the whole week is bare expect a few weekend bookings. 10 years back I had to book in a month ahead to secure a 172 on a Sunday arvo.
Any shortages now I would be blaming dysfunctional management and HR bodies making pilots run from the joint. Happening more often than none.
Rex will be fine as long as captains don’t start walking faster than they are hiring cadets. Issue for Rex is they are seeing now Saab Captains taking on 777 jobs in Dubai when requirements were dropped recently. Large pay and lifestyle change which will sway many.
The issue at hand that I see now is nobody is learning to fly the ‘traditional way’. Flying clubs are going broke and are closing down all over the place. My local had sold two aircraft and made an instructor redundant in order to avoid bankruptcy. Having a look at the online booking system the whole week is bare expect a few weekend bookings. 10 years back I had to book in a month ahead to secure a 172 on a Sunday arvo.
Any shortages now I would be blaming dysfunctional management and HR bodies making pilots run from the joint. Happening more often than none.
PoppaJo has covered most of the bases.
A former colleague of mine is a captain with China Eastern, Melbourne based, commuting contract, gross salary approx 3 times what he was earning with VA!
With the massive expansion projected for the Asia Pacific over the next 2 decades, I believe it is inevitable the big major players will have to offer something similar.
The smaller local operators will have to completely change their mindset. Frankly, something I do not think they are capable of.
The senior management of a well discussed regional airline has been predicting parity of captain numbers by Christmas, for the last 5 years! Last week that old chestnut of blind denial surfaced again. At the moment they have 11 Captains about to tender their resignations, and they’re just the ones we know about!
“Happy trails Hans!”
A former colleague of mine is a captain with China Eastern, Melbourne based, commuting contract, gross salary approx 3 times what he was earning with VA!
With the massive expansion projected for the Asia Pacific over the next 2 decades, I believe it is inevitable the big major players will have to offer something similar.
The smaller local operators will have to completely change their mindset. Frankly, something I do not think they are capable of.
The senior management of a well discussed regional airline has been predicting parity of captain numbers by Christmas, for the last 5 years! Last week that old chestnut of blind denial surfaced again. At the moment they have 11 Captains about to tender their resignations, and they’re just the ones we know about!
“Happy trails Hans!”
Last edited by KRUSTY 34; 14th Nov 2017 at 06:03.
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Whilst i agree with PoppaJo there are many unhappy drivers overseas it seems there is still a reluctance to 'reintroduce' them back into oz by the major operators. I know of a few that got the nod from overseas but i know of many more good operators and good people who didn't even get close whilst others with very minimal experience did. I think that whilst over the past couple of decades the whole shortage thing has been largely B.S the baby boomer apocalypse might be coming within the next 5 years. There are many at QF alone who plan on going early and don't seem to have any intention of alerting the company to this fact.
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I know of a few that got the nod from overseas but i know of many more good operators and good people who didn't even get close whilst others with very minimal experience did.
There is a shortage of intelligent young people that see a future in an industry where conditions are only going backwards.
At every EBA we are told we have to give something up to keep pace with inflation. The end result is that intelligent people that do their due diligence will choose another career path.
Perhaps "giving up something" for EBA's is standard across all industries. Regardless, find me an Airline Pilot that would encourage their child to take up flying.
Do Lawyers of 20 years experience go backwards? Doctors? Bankers? Can't really find anything that I pay for that is cheaper going forward.
Now is the time for the choke hold yet nothing seems to be happening.
Anyway 5 minutes of typing is probably too much on this topic. Who gives a ..
At every EBA we are told we have to give something up to keep pace with inflation. The end result is that intelligent people that do their due diligence will choose another career path.
Perhaps "giving up something" for EBA's is standard across all industries. Regardless, find me an Airline Pilot that would encourage their child to take up flying.
Do Lawyers of 20 years experience go backwards? Doctors? Bankers? Can't really find anything that I pay for that is cheaper going forward.
Now is the time for the choke hold yet nothing seems to be happening.
Anyway 5 minutes of typing is probably too much on this topic. Who gives a ..
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There is a shortage of intelligent young people that see a future in an industry where conditions are only going backwards.
At every EBA we are told we have to give something up to keep pace with inflation. The end result is that intelligent people that do their due diligence will choose another career path.
Perhaps "giving up something" for EBA's is standard across all industries. Regardless, find me an Airline Pilot that would encourage their child to take up flying.
Do Lawyers of 20 years experience go backwards? Doctors? Bankers? Can't really find anything that I pay for that is cheaper going forward.
Now is the time for the choke hold yet nothing seems to be happening.
Anyway 5 minutes of typing is probably too much on this topic. Who gives a ..
At every EBA we are told we have to give something up to keep pace with inflation. The end result is that intelligent people that do their due diligence will choose another career path.
Perhaps "giving up something" for EBA's is standard across all industries. Regardless, find me an Airline Pilot that would encourage their child to take up flying.
Do Lawyers of 20 years experience go backwards? Doctors? Bankers? Can't really find anything that I pay for that is cheaper going forward.
Now is the time for the choke hold yet nothing seems to be happening.
Anyway 5 minutes of typing is probably too much on this topic. Who gives a ..
Secondly, yes they're too smart for this industry. Why would you invest so much for minimal return? 8 years of medicine costs less than a MECIR + ATPL subjects. Troubling really. However, from speaking to someone doing their speciality in pediatrics, the speciality takes longer and is more cost intensive. Further though, there are more scholarships and funding in public universities such as UNSW, Sydney, Melbourne, UQ etc for these professions. Where is the scholarship funding in ours?
No scholarships would suggest to me that the industry has lost its prestigious position among the science faculty. Why? Due to the rise of penny pinching and the striping of conditions.
Most doctors and lawyers negotiate individual contracts, not EBAs.
Secondly, yes they're too smart for this industry. Why would you invest so much for minimal return? 8 years of medicine costs less than a MECIR + ATPL subjects. Troubling really. However, from speaking to someone doing their speciality in pediatrics, the speciality takes longer and is more cost intensive. Further though, there are more scholarships and funding in public universities such as UNSW, Sydney, Melbourne, UQ etc for these professions. Where is the scholarship funding in ours?
No scholarships would suggest to me that the industry has lost its prestigious position among the science faculty. Why? Due to the rise of penny pinching and the striping of conditions.
Secondly, yes they're too smart for this industry. Why would you invest so much for minimal return? 8 years of medicine costs less than a MECIR + ATPL subjects. Troubling really. However, from speaking to someone doing their speciality in pediatrics, the speciality takes longer and is more cost intensive. Further though, there are more scholarships and funding in public universities such as UNSW, Sydney, Melbourne, UQ etc for these professions. Where is the scholarship funding in ours?
No scholarships would suggest to me that the industry has lost its prestigious position among the science faculty. Why? Due to the rise of penny pinching and the striping of conditions.
Last edited by havick; 15th Nov 2017 at 11:04. Reason: Spelling police can’t deal with phone autocorrect mistakes
short flights long nights
There are too many unhappy pilots in the Sandpit and Honkers to fill jets for a number of years to come in this country.
Rex will be fine as long as captains don’t start walking faster than they are hiring cadets. Issue for Rex is they are seeing now Saab Captains taking on 777 jobs in Dubai when requirements were dropped recently. Large pay and lifestyle change which will sway many.
The issue at hand that I see now is nobody is learning to fly the ‘traditional way’. Flying clubs are going broke and are closing down all over the place. My local had sold two aircraft and made an instructor redundant in order to avoid bankruptcy. Having a look at the online booking system the whole week is bare expect a few weekend bookings. 10 years back I had to book in a month ahead to secure a 172 on a Sunday arvo.
Any shortages now I would be blaming dysfunctional management and HR bodies making pilots run from the joint. Happening more often than none.
Rex will be fine as long as captains don’t start walking faster than they are hiring cadets. Issue for Rex is they are seeing now Saab Captains taking on 777 jobs in Dubai when requirements were dropped recently. Large pay and lifestyle change which will sway many.
The issue at hand that I see now is nobody is learning to fly the ‘traditional way’. Flying clubs are going broke and are closing down all over the place. My local had sold two aircraft and made an instructor redundant in order to avoid bankruptcy. Having a look at the online booking system the whole week is bare expect a few weekend bookings. 10 years back I had to book in a month ahead to secure a 172 on a Sunday arvo.
Any shortages now I would be blaming dysfunctional management and HR bodies making pilots run from the joint. Happening more often than none.
Over regulation and "user pays" has killed the industry. The CFI said that none was learning to fly privately anymore..it is just two expensive.
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Your(sic) also forgetting that in the medical industry that doctors control the supply of doctors.
The shortage is structural.
At every EBA we are told we have to give something up to keep pace with inflation. The end result is that intelligent people that do their due diligence will choose another career path.
Yes in Australia, in the late 1980's Bill Kelty, Hawke and Keating effectively removed arbitrated outcomes holding them at nominal CPI, which is way behind REAL CPI.
As such real wage decline occurred across many industries. As real purchasing power declines, the economy lags. The result for the policy maker is reduce the cost of debt all in order to keep the consumerism wheels turning.
Now in Australia the real estate (Morrison) treasurer laments wages growth. It is wages growth (in real terms) that drives increased spending and growth.
Companies the western world over cannot understand what Henry Ford summarised for them over 100 years ago and I paraphrase:
'If i fail to pay my workers enough to buy my cars then I do not have a viable business.
Everything has a limit.
Suppressing real wage growth in aviation is two fold:
- Learning to fly becomes too expensive (relative to other pursuits)
- Pilots leave as the return on an investment is insufficient.
Perhaps "giving up something" for EBA's is standard across all industries.
Perhaps pilots in Europe, Asia, Australia and North America may want to critically ask what is left to give up and what if any push back is their representation making?