Qantas non-stop PER to LHR?
KGI has just removed the "A332" from the parking bay details in Jepp...
Kal is less than 60 Mins away. Its close enough. As long as Customs can be happy with inbound international services doing Gas and Goes where pax stay on the Aircraft, rather than wanting to meet aircraft at their first point of landing, the terminal facilities shouldn't be a barrier either. Kal and Gero (even closer- and probably already has Customs in town thanks to the Port) should do just fine so long as the usual issues (parking, lighting, etc) are covered.
Thats also not to mention the ability to carry Learmonth (-yes lighting issues at night, I know...), and possibly even Adelaide, on the LHR to PER sector is enhanced by the faster flight time in that direction.
Sure, there are issues to be dealt with before hand. However, for the relatively small amount of times a year that a diversion might be a consideration, I don't think the availability of alternates is going to be a massive barrier to it all. Regardless, it's certainly not the issue that warrants Darwin over Perth.
Perth Airport's 'vision' has been around for circa 30 years but they have done very little in actually getting the vision to become reality. Even back in the mining boom days with aircraft having 30 mins ground hold they were still in denial about the need to build anything.
...and to have it put back again? Probably not a great effort required to have wide bodies included again if they already had been for years, I would have thought.
Kal is less than 60 Mins away. Its close enough. As long as Customs can be happy with inbound international services doing Gas and Goes where pax stay on the Aircraft, rather than wanting to meet aircraft at their first point of landing, the terminal facilities shouldn't be a barrier either. Kal and Gero (even closer- and probably already has Customs in town thanks to the Port) should do just fine so long as the usual issues (parking, lighting, etc) are covered.
Thats also not to mention the ability to carry Learmonth (-yes lighting issues at night, I know...), and possibly even Adelaide, on the LHR to PER sector is enhanced by the faster flight time in that direction.
Sure, there are issues to be dealt with before hand. However, for the relatively small amount of times a year that a diversion might be a consideration, I don't think the availability of alternates is going to be a massive barrier to it all. Regardless, it's certainly not the issue that warrants Darwin over Perth.
Kal is less than 60 Mins away. Its close enough. As long as Customs can be happy with inbound international services doing Gas and Goes where pax stay on the Aircraft, rather than wanting to meet aircraft at their first point of landing, the terminal facilities shouldn't be a barrier either. Kal and Gero (even closer- and probably already has Customs in town thanks to the Port) should do just fine so long as the usual issues (parking, lighting, etc) are covered.
Thats also not to mention the ability to carry Learmonth (-yes lighting issues at night, I know...), and possibly even Adelaide, on the LHR to PER sector is enhanced by the faster flight time in that direction.
Sure, there are issues to be dealt with before hand. However, for the relatively small amount of times a year that a diversion might be a consideration, I don't think the availability of alternates is going to be a massive barrier to it all. Regardless, it's certainly not the issue that warrants Darwin over Perth.
Poxy option.
Perth needs options.
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Cat III in Perth. If there is fog, a skinny KGI/GET could be carried, but the likelihood of actually having to land there will be almost zero. Land in Perth with zero vis. You have legally fulfilled all requirements. KGI/GET need not do any upgrades.
Used to use Meeka coming back from Africa, what ever happened to that?
Used to use Meeka coming back from Africa, what ever happened to that?
The only ultra long routes that will matter are Sydney to London and Sydney to New York.
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"Perth Airport's 'vision' has been around for circa 30 years but they have done very little in actually getting the vision to become reality. Even back in the mining boom days with aircraft having 30 mins ground hold they were still in denial about the need to build anything"
As Ben Sandlinds stated the sector length from Sydney to Melbourne in 1968 was 65 minutes. It is now 95 minutes. I don't think either airport moved that much..
Melbourne airport has had plans for an additional runway for over 30 years, conveniently to help out their mate sin the consortium's the government of the day neglected to mention anything of that requirement..Much easier to charge obscene amounts for parking, build shops and sweat the asset..
As Ben Sandlinds stated the sector length from Sydney to Melbourne in 1968 was 65 minutes. It is now 95 minutes. I don't think either airport moved that much..
Melbourne airport has had plans for an additional runway for over 30 years, conveniently to help out their mate sin the consortium's the government of the day neglected to mention anything of that requirement..Much easier to charge obscene amounts for parking, build shops and sweat the asset..
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As for Qantas 'could and maybes' not one 787 has been delivered yet. Perth airport are correct to call BS on the Rome, Paris and Frankfurt spin...There will be over 500 flying by the time Qantas has one. Who would fly 17 1/2 hours in a 737 domestic seat in nine across in Y class?
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Icarus2001
"Would they expect duty free shops to set up in the QF terminal for two flights a day? "
Quite right, Qantas expect a lot. Having trash talked their brand and people into the ground, they almost seem suprised to be considered a fringe player. Alan cried wolf a lot and that has repercussions.
Sadly the brand was very damaged and lost of lot of penetration. Given that they abandoned every European port bar two slots a day to London, is it any wonder Perth airport are a bit dubious that anything prefaced with a 'could' or 'may' as far as plans Qantas has, may be treated with skepticism?
"Would they expect duty free shops to set up in the QF terminal for two flights a day? "
Quite right, Qantas expect a lot. Having trash talked their brand and people into the ground, they almost seem suprised to be considered a fringe player. Alan cried wolf a lot and that has repercussions.
Sadly the brand was very damaged and lost of lot of penetration. Given that they abandoned every European port bar two slots a day to London, is it any wonder Perth airport are a bit dubious that anything prefaced with a 'could' or 'may' as far as plans Qantas has, may be treated with skepticism?
Terminal row could ground London link
Geoffrey Thomas and Gareth Parker - The West Australian on November 21, 2016, 12:40 am
WA appears poised to lose a planned direct flight to London after Perth Airport all but closed the door on Qantas’ push to run the international route from its domestic terminal.
The State Opposition has called on Premier Colin Barnett to intervene personally in the dispute to prevent Qantas operating its new 787 Dreamliner from an Eastern States airport.
Failure to secure the route would risk jobs and tourism-related spending.
Over the weekend, the airport said in a statement that though it supported a direct London flight, it would have to operate from Terminal 1, the international terminal on the eastern side of the airport.
Qantas insists it will operate the flights from its domestic terminal on the western side of the airport, which requires a $25 million upgrade.
Perth Airport’s chief executive Kevin Brown said that it “has offered Qantas a generous multimillion-dollar incentive package’’ to use Terminal 1.
“T1 International has the capacity to accommodate direct services to the UK and Europe, and these services can commence from T1 International at any time,” he said.
But airport consultants dispute that claim, saying that T1 has only eight gates and often they are all being used, with some passengers having to walk across the tarmac to get to their plane.
They point out that the highest priority for the airport is to build a new international satellite terminal — T5 — to accommodate growth.
A Qantas spokesman said: “The opportunity to create a western hub with the Perth-London flight will be here in 18 months, and the only place we can do that in a seamless way that actually makes it viable is the proposal we’ve put to Perth Airport to use our existing domestic terminals for international flights,” the spokesman said.
Mr Barnett repeated his comments of last week that he was prepared to accept an interim solution of Qantas operating from the domestic terminal for the next five years.
“I would then expect Qantas to move across to the T1 international terminal,” he said.
“Securing the western gateway hub through Perth Airport will be a boost to our State and I am optimistic that an agreement will be reached soon.”
Opposition Leader Mark McGowan said he understood it was a commercial matter to be negotiated between Perth Airport and Qantas, but it was also an important issue for the State.
“The Premier, as Tourism Minister as well, needs to urgently call in all parties for a roundtable discussion to seek a resolution that secures the flights for WA,” he said. “It would be disappointing for Perth if we lost this flight on Mr Barnett’s watch.”
The non-stop flight is expected to draw passengers from throughout Australia.
The service would be ideal for Adelaide and Brisbane passengers who do not have a Qantas option to Europe without flying to Melbourne or Sydney.
Qantas is expected to expand the service from a daily flight to London to add Paris, Frankfurt and possibly Rome. It could lure international travellers who are put off by the time and stops required to reach Australia.
Perth Airport said it was reviewing additional information provided by Qantas.
Geoffrey Thomas and Gareth Parker - The West Australian on November 21, 2016, 12:40 am
WA appears poised to lose a planned direct flight to London after Perth Airport all but closed the door on Qantas’ push to run the international route from its domestic terminal.
The State Opposition has called on Premier Colin Barnett to intervene personally in the dispute to prevent Qantas operating its new 787 Dreamliner from an Eastern States airport.
Failure to secure the route would risk jobs and tourism-related spending.
Over the weekend, the airport said in a statement that though it supported a direct London flight, it would have to operate from Terminal 1, the international terminal on the eastern side of the airport.
Qantas insists it will operate the flights from its domestic terminal on the western side of the airport, which requires a $25 million upgrade.
Perth Airport’s chief executive Kevin Brown said that it “has offered Qantas a generous multimillion-dollar incentive package’’ to use Terminal 1.
“T1 International has the capacity to accommodate direct services to the UK and Europe, and these services can commence from T1 International at any time,” he said.
But airport consultants dispute that claim, saying that T1 has only eight gates and often they are all being used, with some passengers having to walk across the tarmac to get to their plane.
They point out that the highest priority for the airport is to build a new international satellite terminal — T5 — to accommodate growth.
A Qantas spokesman said: “The opportunity to create a western hub with the Perth-London flight will be here in 18 months, and the only place we can do that in a seamless way that actually makes it viable is the proposal we’ve put to Perth Airport to use our existing domestic terminals for international flights,” the spokesman said.
Mr Barnett repeated his comments of last week that he was prepared to accept an interim solution of Qantas operating from the domestic terminal for the next five years.
“I would then expect Qantas to move across to the T1 international terminal,” he said.
“Securing the western gateway hub through Perth Airport will be a boost to our State and I am optimistic that an agreement will be reached soon.”
Opposition Leader Mark McGowan said he understood it was a commercial matter to be negotiated between Perth Airport and Qantas, but it was also an important issue for the State.
“The Premier, as Tourism Minister as well, needs to urgently call in all parties for a roundtable discussion to seek a resolution that secures the flights for WA,” he said. “It would be disappointing for Perth if we lost this flight on Mr Barnett’s watch.”
The non-stop flight is expected to draw passengers from throughout Australia.
The service would be ideal for Adelaide and Brisbane passengers who do not have a Qantas option to Europe without flying to Melbourne or Sydney.
Qantas is expected to expand the service from a daily flight to London to add Paris, Frankfurt and possibly Rome. It could lure international travellers who are put off by the time and stops required to reach Australia.
Perth Airport said it was reviewing additional information provided by Qantas.
Qantas should just buy up the 200 or so households on the Cocos islands and fill them with ground staff and crew
Then set up a Qantas hub on the Cocos islands
They could reach EVERY city in Europe and Africa from there
They could even get a few developers in and build resorts and tourist attractions and wipe the ME3 out of Australia
The airport is there, just needs a new terminal and perhaps a runway extension and some foresight
Then set up a Qantas hub on the Cocos islands
They could reach EVERY city in Europe and Africa from there
They could even get a few developers in and build resorts and tourist attractions and wipe the ME3 out of Australia
The airport is there, just needs a new terminal and perhaps a runway extension and some foresight
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Nice article written from the Chairman's lounge no doubt..
Qantas has committed nothing to this, it is simply an idea bubble, wrapped in PR and marketing spin. The 'may' go here 'could' do that is BS and Perth airport called it.
Qantas has committed nothing to this, it is simply an idea bubble, wrapped in PR and marketing spin. The 'may' go here 'could' do that is BS and Perth airport called it.
Chicken and Egg though.
Why would they commit anything when Perth Airport is not configured the way they feel they need it for the services to be profitable? They are trying to avoid the issues associated with separate terminals that currently exist. The carrot of these services and their potential economic benefit to the State is being dangled so they don't have to wear the cost and thus, the risk, if the services don't work as planned.
Sydney and Brisbane are inconvenient for domestic to international connecting passengers because of separate terminals. Now in Perth, they have a unique opportunity to introduce a common terminal for all of their services and remove this inconvenience, until a common facility is completed at the current international site.
If a combined terminal facility is the deal breaker, they aren't going to announce services unless they get what they're asking for.
You don't walk into a Car dealership and say "I am definitely, no matter what, going to buy that car and I am not going anywhere else... Now... whats your best deal?". Well, if you do, you're a fool.
If they were to say that these services are definitely going ahead no matter what, they'll certainly get nothing, because there is nothing for the other stakeholders to lose. BY the same token, this could be a bit of a ruse to get Brisbane or Melbourne Airports to offer better arrangements for the direct Dallas services that both are pushing for. Either way, Qantas potentially gets a better deal out of it somewhere(not to mention some nice free publicity). Perhaps QF also gets a move to a common user facility on the International side in a shorter time frame than currently promised, as GT and the other Media in Perth go to town on the State Government and Perth Airport management for 'costing' Perth these services.
Why would they commit anything when Perth Airport is not configured the way they feel they need it for the services to be profitable? They are trying to avoid the issues associated with separate terminals that currently exist. The carrot of these services and their potential economic benefit to the State is being dangled so they don't have to wear the cost and thus, the risk, if the services don't work as planned.
Sydney and Brisbane are inconvenient for domestic to international connecting passengers because of separate terminals. Now in Perth, they have a unique opportunity to introduce a common terminal for all of their services and remove this inconvenience, until a common facility is completed at the current international site.
If a combined terminal facility is the deal breaker, they aren't going to announce services unless they get what they're asking for.
You don't walk into a Car dealership and say "I am definitely, no matter what, going to buy that car and I am not going anywhere else... Now... whats your best deal?". Well, if you do, you're a fool.
If they were to say that these services are definitely going ahead no matter what, they'll certainly get nothing, because there is nothing for the other stakeholders to lose. BY the same token, this could be a bit of a ruse to get Brisbane or Melbourne Airports to offer better arrangements for the direct Dallas services that both are pushing for. Either way, Qantas potentially gets a better deal out of it somewhere(not to mention some nice free publicity). Perhaps QF also gets a move to a common user facility on the International side in a shorter time frame than currently promised, as GT and the other Media in Perth go to town on the State Government and Perth Airport management for 'costing' Perth these services.
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PER airport might think Qantas is bluffing, but PER will either come to the party (or mostly to the party) or Qantas will take its toys elsewhere.
Most big airports in AUS/NZ are making an absolute killing compared to pretty much every large airport anywhere else in the world and other listed companies in Australia. Maybe they should be putting some of those profits into long term investments like this, rather than having the airlines and the punters shoulder the load for everything?
Most big airports in AUS/NZ are making an absolute killing compared to pretty much every large airport anywhere else in the world and other listed companies in Australia. Maybe they should be putting some of those profits into long term investments like this, rather than having the airlines and the punters shoulder the load for everything?
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Tuner you are partly right. The whole privatisation of monopoly assets is a farce. Monopolies are only bad if you do not own one.
With respect to Qantas' bluff, Qantas has reversed positions on Red Q, government bailouts, being in 'terminal decline' now transformed. (probably forgetting a few!)It is right to question their statements when you consider their stunning lack of direction the company has been exposed to under the ill directed folly of Messrs Joyce and Clifford.
With respect to the 787, there is a total airframe count (due in the next three years) of 8.
Having heard all the stories about a mystical further commitment, Qantas has not availed itself of the last two AGM, two half yearly results announcements nor numerous other opportunities to announce anything else. It isn't 'not wanting to spook the market', it actually relates to gearing and off balance sheet debt. Any additional aircraft are a long way of..
Perth airport is right to ask for a little more than a media campaign orchestrated by local shill GT.
After all the Qantas releases contain a lot of 'may' and 'could' statements.
With respect to Qantas' bluff, Qantas has reversed positions on Red Q, government bailouts, being in 'terminal decline' now transformed. (probably forgetting a few!)It is right to question their statements when you consider their stunning lack of direction the company has been exposed to under the ill directed folly of Messrs Joyce and Clifford.
With respect to the 787, there is a total airframe count (due in the next three years) of 8.
Having heard all the stories about a mystical further commitment, Qantas has not availed itself of the last two AGM, two half yearly results announcements nor numerous other opportunities to announce anything else. It isn't 'not wanting to spook the market', it actually relates to gearing and off balance sheet debt. Any additional aircraft are a long way of..
Perth airport is right to ask for a little more than a media campaign orchestrated by local shill GT.
After all the Qantas releases contain a lot of 'may' and 'could' statements.
Maybe they should be putting some of those profits into long term investments like this, rather than having the airlines and the punters shoulder the load for everything?
I completetly agree that the monoply provider status should have them spending NOW to develop the east side terminals and that bloody parallel runway should be under way NOW.
I saw a report a few weeks ago that the WA transport department are hunting around for a second airport site. They said it would be required by 2030. Why? When a second runway would push that out. It sounds a long way in the future but if it takes five years to build it will open around 2022.
Geoffrey Thomas is a complete ****** who wouldn't know the truth if it bit him on the arse. On Saturday in the west he was quoting some tripe done in Sydney from a study about direct air services, and the value it would bring to the economy, from a study that had jack**** to do with anything about a Perth-London route...
Half the ****e he writes is a complete fabrication. Have to love the "4 cities" crap being floated from Perth....hahahahaha a 787 hub LOL.
IF this is such a lucrative and iconic route, then QF would be happy to fly the thing out of the terminal it that Perth Airport just spent $500m upgrading.
Half the ****e he writes is a complete fabrication. Have to love the "4 cities" crap being floated from Perth....hahahahaha a 787 hub LOL.
IF this is such a lucrative and iconic route, then QF would be happy to fly the thing out of the terminal it that Perth Airport just spent $500m upgrading.
Isn't easy to make money on a 18hr sector with only 250 pax. Good luck to them. How many airlines on the Kangaroo route now? Price rules the booking, and the premium needed for the direct to Perth (still a long way from civilisation) will not be paid by most.
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A succinct point Don.
The economics on the route seem very thin.
250 passengers don't give you much flexibility.
Of course needing to fly to Perth first adds at least five hours to the journey, so it is pretty close, flight journey wise to the whole Asia Europe route. Abandoning Asian ports for a hastily and ill thought out hub that no one likes in Dubai, could well be seen another astonishing own goal from the self annoited 'dream team' in management.
As I stated before, Qantas has little footprint left internationally, exactly as they wanted when embarking on JQ the world with all its inherent rhetoric. None of it worked, Bruce departed and Qantas is a shell with lots of spin no substance. The other airlines know it and it looks like airport operators too..
The economics on the route seem very thin.
250 passengers don't give you much flexibility.
Of course needing to fly to Perth first adds at least five hours to the journey, so it is pretty close, flight journey wise to the whole Asia Europe route. Abandoning Asian ports for a hastily and ill thought out hub that no one likes in Dubai, could well be seen another astonishing own goal from the self annoited 'dream team' in management.
As I stated before, Qantas has little footprint left internationally, exactly as they wanted when embarking on JQ the world with all its inherent rhetoric. None of it worked, Bruce departed and Qantas is a shell with lots of spin no substance. The other airlines know it and it looks like airport operators too..