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Tiger bonding

Old 28th Aug 2016, 05:02
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This might clear a few things up:

"To facilitate an exciting period of growth, Tigerair has a number of contract opportunities for Boeing B737 First Officers in our Melbourne base and Airbus A320 First Officers to join the team in our Brisbane, Melbourne and Sydney bases. Contracts will be for a minimum term of (18) months. At the completion of the contract, it may be possible to gain permanent employment with Tigerair. The endorsement will be provided by Tigerair if required, but is subject to a return of service agreement. Preference will be given to First Officers who already hold a current type rating."

From:

https://tigerair.com.au/corporate/careers
Aurora8 is offline  
Old 29th Aug 2016, 20:28
  #82 (permalink)  
 
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Hawk,
On average between 50 and 70 a month depending on your base etc
No overnights on line flights, so only for sim/SEP/NTS etc, again depending on your base.
Flexi roster with requests/one weekend guaranteed a month OR choose fixed roster 5 on 3 off (with less annual leave).
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Old 1st Sep 2016, 05:25
  #83 (permalink)  
 
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So, Keith, for the obviously ignorant of us, could you please enlighten us on what happens when a pilot completes his compulsory 737 conversion, and then resigns?

Are you suggesting that he/she is free to seek employment elsewhere without any financial penalty whatsoever?
Yes, that’s exactly what happens when there is no bond. You can leave at any time with no liability.

Or are you suggesting that Tiger are merely attempting to bluff pilots into believing there is a bond, when this is not part of the agreement?
No, I’m suggesting that Tiger cannot impose a bond under the current agreement. You are the one asserting that Tiger are imposing bonds, right from your first post and it’s obvious that you haven’t read the agreement or have a clue of what's going on.

Are the answers to these questions only available after clarification in court?
The AFAP have already clarified that for everyone in McLennan v Surveillance Australia. Bonds are not enforceable unless part of an enterprise agreement.

From AFAP briefing of 29 Jun 16:

Quote:
Bond and type freezes – We suggested that the Company consider reducing the length of the bond period for all pilots taking a position on the initial start-up of the B737 operation to 24 months. This can be contrasted with pilots who move onto the B737 in future having a bond/ freeze of 36 months apply, creating an incentive to take up an initial seat.

Further, to encourage bidding for B737 FO positions, we suggested that the Company consider waiving the bond after the 12 month type freeze where an FO takes up a command on the A320. We note that A320 FOs are indicating reluctance to bid because they are concerned about getting their command on the A320 and do not want to be bonded for 36 months as an FO on the B737.

So if I'm ignorant, it seems so are the AFAP.
No, its just you. Gotta love selective quoting. Try a bit more reading, it helps with context. IF Virgin agree to adding the Tiger pilots to the bottom of the Virgin Group Pilots List, as part of the agreement virgin will seek to have bonding for the 737. It’s by no means a done deal. IF the majority of pilots vote for it, it will become part of a new agreement.
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Old 1st Sep 2016, 13:20
  #84 (permalink)  
 
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So aren't the AFAP and Tiger leaving the clarification of this just a little late?

I would have expected a competent organisation would have clarified exactly the terms and conditions of whether or not they are subject to a bond before anyone is sent for the course in question.
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Old 5th Sep 2016, 02:28
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My 2 cents worth
Captain spaghetti hasn't taken his ship into 'black' financial waters since day 1, and a decision to "off" the one part of the fleet actually turnng a profit without him having much of a chance to f#%k with it, is beyond stupid. ANZ were right to demand walk the plank, and take his board of ship mates with him. When every operator in Australia is turning to new newer efficient acft with one eye on the future, (and a rise in oil cost) rather than a last gasp short term profit (could it be parachute time approaching lads) one must ask, he is either a genius yet undiscovered, or a charleton in emperors clothes. I think the latter. The situation is teetering on collapse, albeit for another Capital raising.

Prepare a Plan B, plan C and D

Sadly, a turn to send old worn out 737's to Tiger will only damage the improved reputation so hard worked for with a lot, and I mean a lot of good will from the pilot group. With cabin crew leaving nearly as fast as Aerocare ground staff, and pilots now sourcing an escape plan, and an ambivalent attitude from Tiger Management to the loss of this experience, the future looks grim matey.

Not so much as a gee guys we understand his is VERY disruptive to you, but it was forced on us from Virgin, we're sorry. The spin from management shows how thin the air must be up there. What a great opportunity this is for everyone. Say what!


loss of flight pay
Cattle class tickets to L.A, followed by another leg to Miami to do your 73 rating
Nothing negotiated and in contravention of the EBA (in my vew)
Bonding for the cough "privilege"
Potential for further loss of flight pay if there are unforeseen delays (surely this has been planned in meticulous detail)



I'm feeling the love already.

Sadly pilots are like Dairy Farmers, and until they all go on strike to recover some dignity, let alone some conditions of service, nothing will change.
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Old 5th Sep 2016, 07:09
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You can always vote no. Hand the "**** sandwich" back and see what happens. Keep in mind that you got at least another 2 years worth of employment out of VA buying you in the first place.
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Old 5th Sep 2016, 07:21
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I certainly scratch my head at the decisions made by Virgin, and I appreciate the disruption to TGs pilots (and the ATR guys, and the Ejet guys), however one must wonder exactly how "profitable" Tiger would be without the ability to launch routes that Virgin conveniently withdraw from, and without the various ancillaries that Virgin provide.
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Old 5th Sep 2016, 07:29
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Porch, don't think bigbrother is talking about the vote, rather the forcing across to the 737. In his/her shoes we to wouldn't be happy. "Here's a bunch of books, go learn them for no extra money". Normally when doing an endorsement, we are accustomed to a pay or lifestyle rise so it would be hard to take. Also, it would be pretty painful going 320 to 73 for the obvious reasons. I guess the Ejet guys can sympathise, although they are getting a payrise. Having said that, some of them (even senior ones) are being forced out position and base so I guess it's that puts things into perspective.

Better than being out of a job, so fingers crossed it works!

Last edited by Berealgetreal; 5th Sep 2016 at 08:31.
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Old 5th Sep 2016, 08:39
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Yes, I figured that, but my point stands. They need to say no. The company is requiring the type change, that isn't an individual changing types. As far as the T's and C's are concerned, it's really type for type. It would be simply unrealistic to expect extra money for flying a 737v's an A320. I don't think that's the beef tho. The type costs are, as you said. I disagree with the requirement, and I think the company will cave, if there is enough resistance. However, it isn't me, and I've been wrong before.
What does their EBA say about redundancy? The only reason the E jet guys are getting a payrise is because the larger type they are going onto pays more.
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Old 5th Sep 2016, 09:36
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grrowler,

In think you will find that now Virgin management have a deed of agreement signed with AFAP/VIPA that they are able to expand Tiger on existing VA routes. The purpose of the deed is to ensure that any such expansion does not disadvantage VA group pilots by making that flying available to them.
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Old 5th Sep 2016, 11:33
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The numbers were run by Singapore a few years ago. Tiger couldn't turn a profit as standalone entity unless they had 30 aircraft.

Two options. Close it, or get Virgin to run it on cheap end of lease 737s. Even with sky high fuel prices, the numbers still favour these 737s which are being leased next to nothing.

The writing has been on the wall for at least 7 years.
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Old 22nd Nov 2018, 23:07
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Could anyone PM me with current interview information? Do they still make you pay for type rating? Many thanks
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Old 23rd Nov 2018, 03:03
  #93 (permalink)  
 
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3 year bond, $45k.
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Old 23rd Nov 2018, 05:10
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Airlines need to pay to train crew. Not applicants. Simply a cost of doing business. I will never pay back a bond if forced to sign one. It is disgusting that so many airlines have them nowadays. They can all get stuffed!
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Old 23rd Nov 2018, 05:13
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Airlines need to pay to train crew.
That is what they are doing.
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Old 23rd Nov 2018, 07:03
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Originally Posted by zanthrus
Airlines need to pay to train crew. Not applicants. Simply a cost of doing business. I will never pay back a bond if forced to sign one. It is disgusting that so many airlines have them nowadays. They can all get stuffed!
i’m afraid It’s what we’ve allowed.
Pay over the top for a license, go through ga and earn bugger all, self fund atpls, self fund ipcs.
Finally have some competitive experience and get told you won’t be considered without a MCC, so go and pay 6k for a week course consisting of readbacks in a fixed base sim.
Then you’re lucky enough to pay for your type rating.

And if you have morals and refuse, there will be someone with 200 hours willing to pay.
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Old 23rd Nov 2018, 07:09
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Which airlines in Australia charge for a type rating? Not bonding as that is not paying for a type rating.

Go to university or TAFE and it is also self funded.
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Old 23rd Nov 2018, 10:51
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Bonded and full pay from day 1. Even the crem de la creme (QF) don’t do that.
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Old 23rd Nov 2018, 21:24
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Cheers for the info folks. Can anyone PM me with base pay and also any information about the interview process? IE what sort of questions to expect in the panel interview and sim profile etc. Cheers!
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Old 24th Nov 2018, 00:43
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Originally Posted by wishiwasupthere
Bonded and full pay from day 1. Even the crem de la creme (QF) don’t do that.
Virgin does. Full pay from day one, allowances whilst training, bonded on type for 3yrs. It’s no issue if you don’t plan on leaving within the 3yr period.
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