CASA - NEW FATIGUE POLICY
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CASA - NEW FATIGUE POLICY
https://www.casa.gov.au/sites/g/file...f?v=1381844306
CASA has produced an excellent resource. Hopefully it will now be implemented successfully with all airlines and crew. Managing fatigue is definitely a shared responsibility. I liked how this guide reinforces that. As they say you can't manage fatigue with coffee and willpower.
CASA has produced an excellent resource. Hopefully it will now be implemented successfully with all airlines and crew. Managing fatigue is definitely a shared responsibility. I liked how this guide reinforces that. As they say you can't manage fatigue with coffee and willpower.
Problem is Mr Skidmore put it off until April 2017 not 2016 as stated on the document. Reason given because "airlines are not ready!" or in Rex's case the new rules cost too much! Emirates have told their own pilots that FRM will increase productivity by 30%. That is NOT what FRM is all about!
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Eagles Nest
Posts: 485
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Whats it going to take for the industry to sit up and take notice of fatigue ? Start banning airlines from operating in some countries airspace if their FTL's are beyond a joke ? Or we have to wait for a few thousand to perish ?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I missed the delay until 2017. He (Mr Skidmore) probably just acquiesced to airline management. Fatigue causes mental health issues and all sorts of other problems. Time to implement not delay.
Problem is that although CASA is stressing that Fatigue Management is a joint responsibility there has been little input into the new FRMS regime by aircrew!
Having spoken to management at my own airline about this, the manager concerned took great pleasure in telling me that he thought that the new FRMS rules to be implemented by my airline were going to give greater productivity and flexibility. He said ' we are really looking forward to its introduction because if we can show CASA that rostering 5 night flights in a row is better for fatigue management than the current cap on night duty hours then they will let us do it!'.
Given CASA's past eagerness to grant concessions and exemptions whenever required I don't hold out much hope for the FRMS. A truly collaborative process were we are all jointly responsible would have involved a hell of a lot more consultation on what the final scheme would look like at each airline. Instead we have been told that the airline will design it, get it approved and we will get to look at it just prior to implementation.
Having spoken to management at my own airline about this, the manager concerned took great pleasure in telling me that he thought that the new FRMS rules to be implemented by my airline were going to give greater productivity and flexibility. He said ' we are really looking forward to its introduction because if we can show CASA that rostering 5 night flights in a row is better for fatigue management than the current cap on night duty hours then they will let us do it!'.
Given CASA's past eagerness to grant concessions and exemptions whenever required I don't hold out much hope for the FRMS. A truly collaborative process were we are all jointly responsible would have involved a hell of a lot more consultation on what the final scheme would look like at each airline. Instead we have been told that the airline will design it, get it approved and we will get to look at it just prior to implementation.
Last I checked there was actually very little real Scientific investigation into Fatigue Management in Aviation. So the question must be asked, if Operators are now able to make their own FRMS, on what are they basing their justification and proof that it will keep the Pilots safe, other than a whole lot of hot air and fancy words that seem appropriate at the time?
I, as I suspect many others do, think that all this will accomplish is allowing Operators to push Pilots even further so long as they can "Justify" it when all and sundry know their only real reasoning is to make more money. If the all operators increase the number of Hours their Pilots are Flying and are On Duty then would it not stand to reason that safety must have been reduced? I don't believe anyone could possibly think that increasing these hours could possibly INCREASE safety in any way, shape or form.
I, as I suspect many others do, think that all this will accomplish is allowing Operators to push Pilots even further so long as they can "Justify" it when all and sundry know their only real reasoning is to make more money. If the all operators increase the number of Hours their Pilots are Flying and are On Duty then would it not stand to reason that safety must have been reduced? I don't believe anyone could possibly think that increasing these hours could possibly INCREASE safety in any way, shape or form.
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: OZ
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To have your FRMS looked at by CASA you have to have gathered 12 months of data which has to have been analysed over the 12 months by some scientist or somebody.
So if you haven't done this yet or haven't started this then I would say you'll be using the standard numbers in CAO 48, when exemptions finally expire.
I can't see any small company with less than 20 aircraft going down that path, which means there really will not be that many submissions to CASA anyway.
So if you haven't done this yet or haven't started this then I would say you'll be using the standard numbers in CAO 48, when exemptions finally expire.
I can't see any small company with less than 20 aircraft going down that path, which means there really will not be that many submissions to CASA anyway.
What fatigue expertise is there in CASA?
So CASA will need to approve any FRMS proposed by airlines. Fair enough in concept. But what process will be followed to assess a proposed FRMS, and who in CASA has the expertise to do this objectively and scientifically?
The brightly-coloured brochure is hardly a resource to provide professional guidance. It reads more like a list of issues compiled from wikipedia, with not a scientific reference on fatigue to be seen.
Seabreeze
The brightly-coloured brochure is hardly a resource to provide professional guidance. It reads more like a list of issues compiled from wikipedia, with not a scientific reference on fatigue to be seen.
Seabreeze
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Melbourne
Age: 60
Posts: 952
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You are NOT fatigued, you are just tired!! Anyone else heard this from their enlightened management/safety department?
Many times!
Last time I was in EP's we were told that "YOU are the only person who can say if you're fatigued". I had to correct them to say that "My Fleet manager is the only person who can say if I'm fatigued." They were unimpressed.
Last year I had 1 in 3 of my fatigued days changed to Sick days by my Fleet manager, after he'd decided that I wasn't fatigued after all.
DIVOSH!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The stigma must end. Fatigue is fatigue, period. People become exhausted, sick and tired. It all comes from being fatigued. Nobody gives a darn at CASA or airline management.
We have good days and nights and then some days and nights it feels like wading through quicksand due to exhaustion even with light exercise, sound sleep and good food, no alcohol and appropriate hydration.
Again, coffee and willpower just don't cut it.
Is it going to take a prang for something 'real' to change...?
We have good days and nights and then some days and nights it feels like wading through quicksand due to exhaustion even with light exercise, sound sleep and good food, no alcohol and appropriate hydration.
Again, coffee and willpower just don't cut it.
Is it going to take a prang for something 'real' to change...?
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Santa Barbara
Posts: 912
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My experience of FRMS is that it is designed to protect & absolve the employer. It is not designed to protect the employee. It is purely a tool to allow an employer to sign off on ridiculous tactical staff replacement. It is not a tool to help or protect an employee.
Nunc est bibendum
you are just tired!! Anyone else heard this from their enlightened management/safety department?
This is the definition Qantas uses now:
A physiological state of reduced mental or physical performance capability resulting from sleep loss or extended wakefulness and/or physical activity that can impair a crew member’s alertness and ability to safely operate an aircraft or perform safety related duties.
This is the link Qantas provides to the CASA info.
https://www.casa.gov.au/operations/s...3Apc=PC_100913
Just ask Canadian Rail what happens when they overwork their employees because of inadequate fatigue management policies.
I have a feeling in 10-15 years there'll be a documentary on TV about how a major accident was caused by crappy fatigue management in aviation, and how it was the catalyst for robust FRMS's. All too late of course....
morno
I have a feeling in 10-15 years there'll be a documentary on TV about how a major accident was caused by crappy fatigue management in aviation, and how it was the catalyst for robust FRMS's. All too late of course....
morno
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Santa Barbara
Posts: 912
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't think people quite understand FRMS. It's risk management for the employer NOT a set of rules ensuring your (the employee) health & wellbeing. It allows them (management) signing off on your known fatigue with appropriate (there are none) mitigators. Heaven help a manager that signs off on fatigue when it goes tits up.
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 208
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sadly still, this leave a strong safety mechanism out for abuse - continual abuse. People notifying central of fatigue after annual leave, after single sector duties (e/w), after 36hr slips..... fortunately its only cabin crew who take the piss.... Just a shame the business is left to pick up the pieces again.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dizzy, perhaps a touch unfair re Cabin Crew. A bit of a sweeping statement perhaps. No offense or personal stuff. Perhaps all aircrew both flight and cabin may be considered?
Are you ever fatigued? I know I am and I see how the cc are flogged.
Are you ever fatigued? I know I am and I see how the cc are flogged.