Qantas and the 787-900
Alan loved you all along. He just wanted to see you commit self harm first.
But what he does see is the share price at worst, holding its current position or growing as long as there's no threat of industrial action.
I'd be feeling reasonably keen to avoid confrontation and thus hurrying the negotiations too if the value of my bonus was tied to the share price.
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Inside their OODA loop
Posts: 243
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The other issue is that oil is freakishly low and if (when) it goes back to $110 per barrel then we (international) will likely be losing money again
For more information see Annual Average Oil Prices in Table Form.
The red line on the chart shows oil prices adjusted for inflation in January 2014 dollars. The black line indicates the nominal price (in other words the price you would have actually paid at the time).Current prices as of December 17th 2014 are $49.50 down significantly from recent highs but still above the average inflation adjusted price of $41.70 from 1946 - 2014.
The red line on the chart shows oil prices adjusted for inflation in January 2014 dollars. The black line indicates the nominal price (in other words the price you would have actually paid at the time).Current prices as of December 17th 2014 are $49.50 down significantly from recent highs but still above the average inflation adjusted price of $41.70 from 1946 - 2014.
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: thelodge
Posts: 139
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FYSTI,
You make a very good point.
Oil is currently in oversupply. Shale production in the USA is still high.
Oil is forecast to stay low for a considerable time.
The whole point of the 787 is the lower maintenance cost AND lower fuel burn should I fact the unexpected happen and prices rise again.
That alone will be the future proofing of QF.
Pilot salaries are not the make or break here. They are 1-5% of the overall cost.
Im not suggesting some win wins not be considered.
Just don't think it wise to sell the farm at the start of a big turnaround.
There is no rush, unless your Qantas.
You make a very good point.
Oil is currently in oversupply. Shale production in the USA is still high.
Oil is forecast to stay low for a considerable time.
The whole point of the 787 is the lower maintenance cost AND lower fuel burn should I fact the unexpected happen and prices rise again.
That alone will be the future proofing of QF.
Pilot salaries are not the make or break here. They are 1-5% of the overall cost.
Im not suggesting some win wins not be considered.
Just don't think it wise to sell the farm at the start of a big turnaround.
There is no rush, unless your Qantas.
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: AUS
Posts: 236
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Average inflation adjusted prices do not account for reduced supply - hence the growth of shale oil etc - becasue they are only adjusted for INFLATION and not for supply source availability. There is a reason that countries like the USA are trying to boost domestic sources of oil. The Saudis have learnt from history and want to starve these guys out of the game with their cost base of $10/barrel. That is the single reason proces are at current levels - because the Saudis are choosing to maintain OPEC output for their own selfish, long term reasons and they could change their minds at anytime. Your data also doesn't adjust for increasing future demand for oil with the emergence of China, India and other countries' middle classes. That's why I'd rather go with my future scenario of oil heading back towards $100 than your 'inflation adjusted' figure from the past. It's a nice graph looking BACK, but I don't think it tells us much looking FORWARD. Why don't you start your graph even further back at the year 1800 so the average price oil is 5 bucks? So what? It would just been even more irrelevant.
Anyway I think this is meant to be about the long haul EBA...
Airlines typically operate on proft margins of less than 4% (http://www.iata.org/pressroom/pr/Pag...-12-10-01.aspx) and labour costs are one of the few major differences, since fuel and aircraft costs are much less variable between airlines. To that extent, pilots costs absolutely can be the difference between a route being profitable or unprotiable over the medium to long term - we shouldn't stick our heads in the sand about that. That doesn't mean selling the farm though, I do agree, but I don't think we should be militant in not being willing to structure our terms differently to reflect the possibility of more proftiable ULH operations over the next decade or two and I'm bloody sure most pilots feel the same way. There will be plenty of politics to be played and slogans to be thrown around by a small number of senior pilots with this EBA, but in the end the majority will decide.
Anyway I think this is meant to be about the long haul EBA...
Airlines typically operate on proft margins of less than 4% (http://www.iata.org/pressroom/pr/Pag...-12-10-01.aspx) and labour costs are one of the few major differences, since fuel and aircraft costs are much less variable between airlines. To that extent, pilots costs absolutely can be the difference between a route being profitable or unprotiable over the medium to long term - we shouldn't stick our heads in the sand about that. That doesn't mean selling the farm though, I do agree, but I don't think we should be militant in not being willing to structure our terms differently to reflect the possibility of more proftiable ULH operations over the next decade or two and I'm bloody sure most pilots feel the same way. There will be plenty of politics to be played and slogans to be thrown around by a small number of senior pilots with this EBA, but in the end the majority will decide.
Last edited by Tuner 2; 24th Mar 2015 at 08:27.
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: thelodge
Posts: 139
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From the Sydney Morning Herald
"In February, over 2600 members of the Transport Workers Union working at Qantas agreed to the wage freeze in return for commitments that they would continue to work under the existing terms if Qantas creates a new corporate entity for its international business, improved consultation and training provisions and access to long service leave".
TWU got to keep existing terms and conditions with a pay freeze back in September.
"In February, over 2600 members of the Transport Workers Union working at Qantas agreed to the wage freeze in return for commitments that they would continue to work under the existing terms if Qantas creates a new corporate entity for its international business, improved consultation and training provisions and access to long service leave".
TWU got to keep existing terms and conditions with a pay freeze back in September.
Based on current profitability measures.... Pretty much anywhere in the world really!
Bourke to Halls Ck
Mt Gambier to Napier
Katherine to Mt Hagen
Ok, ok. I'll stop giving them all the good ideas.
Bourke to Halls Ck
Mt Gambier to Napier
Katherine to Mt Hagen
Ok, ok. I'll stop giving them all the good ideas.
10 months since the last post.
Qantas 787-9s likely to fly MEL-DFW | Plane Talking
Qantas 787-9s likely to fly MEL-DFW | Plane Talking
There are credible rumours that the seat count in the Qantas Boeing 787-9s due from the end of 2017 will be a low, and comfortable 235, and Melbourne-Dallas will be one of the routes.
Another new route mentioned is Perth-London, presumably via Dubai, although with improved bad weather landing systems at the Perth end, non-stop flights eastbound mightn’t be out of the question.
These are among the details heard in informed gossip. The real announcement is believed to be made this April, at least at this stage, although there is another high visibility option for Qantas to provide details when it announces its anticipated record first half year profit result on 23 February.
According to information the configuration of the 787-9s will be 42 business class seats in a new product, apparently further improved compared to the new J class sleepers now being fitted in the Qantas A330 fleet.
There will be 28 premium economy seats, and 165 in normal economy. It wasn’t known if the economy seats will be the originally intended eight across totally ‘dreamy’ seats Boeing intended for its Dreamliners, or the horrid nine across bum crushers so enthusiastically endorsed by sadistic bean counters for many 787 configurations.
But on a 17 hour flight between Dallas and Melbourne, there is hope, as well as a need on humanitarian grounds, for the seats to as wide as those on the Qantas A380s that fly its Sydney-Dallas Fort Worth dailies.
Another new route mentioned is Perth-London, presumably via Dubai, although with improved bad weather landing systems at the Perth end, non-stop flights eastbound mightn’t be out of the question.
These are among the details heard in informed gossip. The real announcement is believed to be made this April, at least at this stage, although there is another high visibility option for Qantas to provide details when it announces its anticipated record first half year profit result on 23 February.
According to information the configuration of the 787-9s will be 42 business class seats in a new product, apparently further improved compared to the new J class sleepers now being fitted in the Qantas A330 fleet.
There will be 28 premium economy seats, and 165 in normal economy. It wasn’t known if the economy seats will be the originally intended eight across totally ‘dreamy’ seats Boeing intended for its Dreamliners, or the horrid nine across bum crushers so enthusiastically endorsed by sadistic bean counters for many 787 configurations.
But on a 17 hour flight between Dallas and Melbourne, there is hope, as well as a need on humanitarian grounds, for the seats to as wide as those on the Qantas A380s that fly its Sydney-Dallas Fort Worth dailies.
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: melbourne
Posts: 164
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Townsville refueller rumor.
744 ER to have cabin reconfig extended life past 2020.
789 SYDNEY LAX MEL LAX SYD DFW SYD-DXB EK only to LHR
A380 Reduced to 7 to 11 hour sectors high yield Asia routes.
A330 Current with new routes opening.
2017/2018 interesting times ahead.
744 ER to have cabin reconfig extended life past 2020.
789 SYDNEY LAX MEL LAX SYD DFW SYD-DXB EK only to LHR
A380 Reduced to 7 to 11 hour sectors high yield Asia routes.
A330 Current with new routes opening.
2017/2018 interesting times ahead.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Great Southern Land
Age: 72
Posts: 511
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That will damn near kill the barons.
Townsville refueller rumor.
744 ER to have cabin reconfig extended life past 2020.
744 ER to have cabin reconfig extended life past 2020.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 265
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A380 Reduced to 7 to 11 hour sectors high yield Asia routes.
The only problem with that theory is that there are no high yield Asia routes.
Why would they bother to reconfigure the last two 747s when they can continue to treat the poor paying customers with the contempt with which Qantas believe they deserve. They did it with the classics for years. Save the money so someone can have good KPIs and a bonus. Remember I think EBU sat at Avalon for so long that eventualy they couldn't fix it due to corrosion, but they had purchased all the interior parts already.
Yes as somebody who deals directly with the passengers and their disappointment with the worn out non reconfigured 744s I know what you mean.
All things considered you'd imagine doing the last two would make sense.
Oh, that right.......
British Airways Stays Loyal to Its Boeing 747-400s
All things considered you'd imagine doing the last two would make sense.
Oh, that right.......
British Airways Stays Loyal to Its Boeing 747-400s
Nunc est bibendum
The only problem with that theory is that there are no high yield Asia routes.
Admittedly, that may mean slightly less crap than they were but the person I spoke to about it in December is in a position to know. The term he used was 'making Sh!tloads'.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: everywhere
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I was fortunate enough to travel JFK-LAX-BNE on OJM a few weeks back in J and it was very very average. Nothing wrong with 744, but the seats & IFE were rubbish.
OJT & OEH on the way over was light years better, maybe not the best around but I think perfectly acceptable product.
OJT & OEH on the way over was light years better, maybe not the best around but I think perfectly acceptable product.