Qantas Maintenance Changes
Managers perspective, thanks for the diatribe.
And thanks also for not addressing any of the issues. Qantas has the right to operate their aircraft however they like, and on this,my opinion doesn't count. I accept that, however, now we have a situation where the information you allude to is not available to the pilots.
Again the question is "are we legal."
So get off the blinkered high horse and understand the problem. Qantas has introduced a system where the information the required by the pilot in command is not there. Do the pilots have access to the OEM or AMM?
Answer=no
As for the taronga park line, I've visited a few different zoos around the world and the Qantas one on coward street has a goose as the prized animal, the biggest monkeys enclosure out of the lot of them, and a huge trough out the back,which if drunk from, seems to be able to produce effluent of giant proportions when you consider the metrics of running a successful business.
And thanks also for not addressing any of the issues. Qantas has the right to operate their aircraft however they like, and on this,my opinion doesn't count. I accept that, however, now we have a situation where the information you allude to is not available to the pilots.
Again the question is "are we legal."
So get off the blinkered high horse and understand the problem. Qantas has introduced a system where the information the required by the pilot in command is not there. Do the pilots have access to the OEM or AMM?
Answer=no
As for the taronga park line, I've visited a few different zoos around the world and the Qantas one on coward street has a goose as the prized animal, the biggest monkeys enclosure out of the lot of them, and a huge trough out the back,which if drunk from, seems to be able to produce effluent of giant proportions when you consider the metrics of running a successful business.
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There are a few comments popping up where posters are saying the pilots should be monitoring systems, picking up potential tech issues of their own accord etc, but I don't think that is the point of this thread.
The point is that a system that worked well was in place, it was a system that added an extra 'defence' in the Swiss cheese model. But in my opinion that particular defence has now been removed. The removal of just one defence creates an elevated level of risk. How many more defences will be removed before the remaining holes in the cheese line up?
The point is that a system that worked well was in place, it was a system that added an extra 'defence' in the Swiss cheese model. But in my opinion that particular defence has now been removed. The removal of just one defence creates an elevated level of risk. How many more defences will be removed before the remaining holes in the cheese line up?
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cant speak for the type mentioned by the op but for the bus, oil qty checks preflight by the tech crew are in the normal procedures. minimum qty and an allowance for burn are promulgated.
reading that first post simply seems the tech crew missed it preflight.
when mgmt get sick of the delays, return to gates and getting aircraft stuck at non engineering ports i guess they'll change it back
agreed, mgmt do seem to take limits as targets.
reading that first post simply seems the tech crew missed it preflight.
when mgmt get sick of the delays, return to gates and getting aircraft stuck at non engineering ports i guess they'll change it back
agreed, mgmt do seem to take limits as targets.
Again the question is "are we legal."
A bad day for a senior QF manager is a leaking pen, or losing your smartphone in the toilet at Rockpool. Trying to explain a double engine failure at V1 in a nasty crosswind will just get a blank look. I don't think they understand 'cause' and 'effect'.
Which is why an Engineer, Pilot, F/A and Ground staff member really needs to be on the board, so they can explain to the numpties what it is an airline REALLY does and what it NEEDS to do. And it sure as hell aint Lounges and shiny new corporate HQ's.
Does anyone actually know what the minimum oil quantity is for 738's ?
I asked a LAME while doing a walk around a few months ago and he said 16. That made sense to me as it is always 16 or higher on our aircraft as we get topped up every turn around (EDTO). But try as I might I couldn't find it in any manual.
Does anyone have anything definitive?
I asked a LAME while doing a walk around a few months ago and he said 16. That made sense to me as it is always 16 or higher on our aircraft as we get topped up every turn around (EDTO). But try as I might I couldn't find it in any manual.
Does anyone have anything definitive?
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Gold Plating???????
In a galaxy far far away and many light years passed a flight engineer would examine water drains after every refuel,oil would be topped up regardless of qty indication,landing gear struts would be wiped clean and hydraulic qty at optimum ops level and oil tank caps inspected before dep.
This is now referred to as gold plating maintenance.id rather have gold like the smell the taste the touch of it than any other form.
This is now referred to as gold plating maintenance.id rather have gold like the smell the taste the touch of it than any other form.
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Accurate Engine Oil Levels.
Just a small point. To get accurate oil level indications following several hours on the deck, the engines need to be operated for 5 minutes at idle. 
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Thnx for the posts guys. Interesting to see an array of answers. If I could ask a couple of questions specifically about Pilot maintenance. Is there information given to you as part of your 738 training about minimum oil levels? What have you guys been told or taught about this and other things such as tyre and brake limits?
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From the maintenance manual minimum dispatch oil level on a 738 is 70% .
I don't remember if 1 qt is 4 or 5% but I assume it is 14 at 5% a can.
Hope that helps after that the oil pressure starts to drop too low.
I don't remember if 1 qt is 4 or 5% but I assume it is 14 at 5% a can.
Hope that helps after that the oil pressure starts to drop too low.
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From what I understand , the airline must be maintained by a part 145 MRO , and the Qantas CASA approved part 145 rules do not allow for pilot maintenance in any form. Not even for an independent inspection if only 1 lame on station. The devil is in the detail of what is considered maintenance or servicing.
Pilots can check oils on the indicators, fair enough, but if EDTO rules are changed to allow pilots to carry out ETOPS checks, what about the IDG oil and delta p checks required ? Servicing function?? Will you be trained to vent the IDG to get the correct oil level ? Will u have PPE to prevent breathing in MJ2 vapour?
Manufacturer and industry standards do not translate to best practice.
It's good to get an overview of opinions from various departments.
Cheers
Pilots can check oils on the indicators, fair enough, but if EDTO rules are changed to allow pilots to carry out ETOPS checks, what about the IDG oil and delta p checks required ? Servicing function?? Will you be trained to vent the IDG to get the correct oil level ? Will u have PPE to prevent breathing in MJ2 vapour?
Manufacturer and industry standards do not translate to best practice.
It's good to get an overview of opinions from various departments.
Cheers
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A small correction.
Pilot Maintenance is not performed under a Part 145 Maintenance Organisation Approval.
It is performed under the CASA approved policies and procedures of the CAMO under Part 42.300.
The Part 42 Manual of Standards limits Pilot Maintenance to the following activities:
1. A pre-flight or daily inspection or an inspection that is equivalent to a pre-flight or daily inspection in the aircraft maintenance program.
2. Replacement of bulbs and lights.
3. Replacement of seats, if the replacement does not involve disassembly of any part of the primary structure of the aircraft.
4. Replenishment of a system fluid other than a gas.
5. Maintenance that is required for the application of a minimum equipment list if the maintenance does not involve any of the following:
(a) removal or disassembly of parts;
(b) disassembly of control systems;
(c) the use of special tools or equipment.
6. Maintenance required by an airworthiness directive, if the airworthiness directive permits a pilot licence holder or a flight engineer to carry out the maintenance.
These activities can only be approved after the pilot has been appropriately trained and approved by the CAMO.
MP
Pilot Maintenance is not performed under a Part 145 Maintenance Organisation Approval.
It is performed under the CASA approved policies and procedures of the CAMO under Part 42.300.
The Part 42 Manual of Standards limits Pilot Maintenance to the following activities:
1. A pre-flight or daily inspection or an inspection that is equivalent to a pre-flight or daily inspection in the aircraft maintenance program.
2. Replacement of bulbs and lights.
3. Replacement of seats, if the replacement does not involve disassembly of any part of the primary structure of the aircraft.
4. Replenishment of a system fluid other than a gas.
5. Maintenance that is required for the application of a minimum equipment list if the maintenance does not involve any of the following:
(a) removal or disassembly of parts;
(b) disassembly of control systems;
(c) the use of special tools or equipment.
6. Maintenance required by an airworthiness directive, if the airworthiness directive permits a pilot licence holder or a flight engineer to carry out the maintenance.
These activities can only be approved after the pilot has been appropriately trained and approved by the CAMO.
MP
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Thnx Manager. The CAMO now doesn't cover this oil level check.
It used to form part of a daily check. That check is now a 48 hourly check and is no longer daily.
It used to form part of a daily check. That check is now a 48 hourly check and is no longer daily.
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2. Replacement of bulbs and lights.
*The reason why the light is broken may be because the wrong bulb was fitted in the first place.
Doesn't lamp removal invariably involve the removal of a part and the disassembly of a light assembly?
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QF engineering policy for replacement of lamps is, power isolated (pull C/B), document pulled C/B in maintenix and use of PPE in the form of eye shields. Ensure correct P/N lamp is used IAW AMM - IPC
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If you read the new regulations, pilots of a Large Aircraft can no longer perform ANY maintenance unless he is trained and approved by a Part 145 AMO. This includes changing light bulbs and pulling CB's for the application of an MEL.
Refer CASR 1998 Division 42.G 4 and MOS part 42
maintenance means any task required to ensure, or that could affect, the continuing airworthiness of an aircraft or aeronautical product, including any one or combination of overhaul, repair, inspection, replacement of an aeronautical product, modification or defect rectification.
And the penalties are:
24 Interference with crew or aircraft
(1) A person commits an offence if:
(a) the person does an act; and
(b) the act:
(i) interferes with a crew member of an aircraft in the course of the performance of his or her duties as such a crew member; or
(ii) threatens the safety of an aircraft or of persons on board an aircraft.
Penalty: Imprisonment for 2 years.
(2) A person must not tamper with:
(a) an aircraft; or
(b) an aeronautical product that is of such a type that tampering with it may endanger the safety of an aircraft or any person or property;
if tampering with it may endanger the safety of the aircraft or any person or property.
Penalty: Imprisonment for 2 years.
Refer CASR 1998 Division 42.G 4 and MOS part 42
maintenance means any task required to ensure, or that could affect, the continuing airworthiness of an aircraft or aeronautical product, including any one or combination of overhaul, repair, inspection, replacement of an aeronautical product, modification or defect rectification.
And the penalties are:
24 Interference with crew or aircraft
(1) A person commits an offence if:
(a) the person does an act; and
(b) the act:
(i) interferes with a crew member of an aircraft in the course of the performance of his or her duties as such a crew member; or
(ii) threatens the safety of an aircraft or of persons on board an aircraft.
Penalty: Imprisonment for 2 years.
(2) A person must not tamper with:
(a) an aircraft; or
(b) an aeronautical product that is of such a type that tampering with it may endanger the safety of an aircraft or any person or property;
if tampering with it may endanger the safety of the aircraft or any person or property.
Penalty: Imprisonment for 2 years.
Last edited by SRM; 22nd Apr 2014 at 05:59. Reason: Penalty for undocumented maintenace
