Will Qantas Mainline ever hire another pilot on a permanent contract?
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Well if you wanted to be paid 250% of market rates & do sweet f**8 all for it , it would probably be a pretty good gig
The senior SOs on the A380 are earning up to $280K , mid to senior SOs on the B744 routinely break $200K
Think Cathay are paying $90K aren't they ?
Take the jolly good chap of an SO on sectors that your competition routinely use two crew on
Travel the world with the Hooray Henry Brigade of cabin crew , who just refuse to retire & themselves earn up to $180K
Yes QF International is returning to profit , we have turned the corner , and about to get back in the game !!
Yes the large Asian & ME carriers are a bit rattled by the whole QF International turnaround.
You now have an international fleet capacity that is a whooping 30% greater than 1985 (pax numbers to Aust gone up 600% during this period)
Go QF International - the days of glory will return
The senior SOs on the A380 are earning up to $280K , mid to senior SOs on the B744 routinely break $200K
Think Cathay are paying $90K aren't they ?
Take the jolly good chap of an SO on sectors that your competition routinely use two crew on
Travel the world with the Hooray Henry Brigade of cabin crew , who just refuse to retire & themselves earn up to $180K
Yes QF International is returning to profit , we have turned the corner , and about to get back in the game !!
Yes the large Asian & ME carriers are a bit rattled by the whole QF International turnaround.
You now have an international fleet capacity that is a whooping 30% greater than 1985 (pax numbers to Aust gone up 600% during this period)
Go QF International - the days of glory will return
Last edited by Flyboat North; 23rd Mar 2015 at 04:12.
Nunc est bibendum
Interesting points dolittle and ones that have been discussed amongst many at Qantas. The impact on the issues you raise on the quality of applicants for Qantas is worth considering also.
Flyboat north went onto my ignore list long ago so I have no idea if any useful contribution has been made there- I'd be surprised based on past performance before being added to my ignore list
.
One thing to consider as a difference between Virgin, Jetstar and Qantas. Qantas have 1700 pilots. 50 pilots a year hit retirement age (65 ostensibly*) every year for the next 15 years. What's the demographic at Virgin and Jetstar? They've had exponential growth for a number of years now but if it's back to organic growth of only a couple of percent a year, what does that do for promotional opportunities when so many of their Captains are very young?
*Yes I know it's not a hard and fast number but it's not like there are 40% of crew going beyond 65. It's actually less than 10%.
Flyboat north went onto my ignore list long ago so I have no idea if any useful contribution has been made there- I'd be surprised based on past performance before being added to my ignore list
.One thing to consider as a difference between Virgin, Jetstar and Qantas. Qantas have 1700 pilots. 50 pilots a year hit retirement age (65 ostensibly*) every year for the next 15 years. What's the demographic at Virgin and Jetstar? They've had exponential growth for a number of years now but if it's back to organic growth of only a couple of percent a year, what does that do for promotional opportunities when so many of their Captains are very young?
*Yes I know it's not a hard and fast number but it's not like there are 40% of crew going beyond 65. It's actually less than 10%.
Flyboat I say this with total sincerity, let it go.
The angst and frustration you hold so tight to will actually do you physical harm over the years, and most likely impact upon your personal relationships.
Two years ago you were looking to do your CMEIR and were seeking info on a Jetstar cadetship and then on Air NZ SO jobs and the TTMRA so you're pretty fresh to the industry to harbour so much ill will and to continually bang on about the the pay rates of people who have been successful.
I'm not being facetious, you should choose not to worry about it for your own sake. The guys and girls who have got those great jobs didn't get there by nurturing a bad attitude.
The angst and frustration you hold so tight to will actually do you physical harm over the years, and most likely impact upon your personal relationships.
Two years ago you were looking to do your CMEIR and were seeking info on a Jetstar cadetship and then on Air NZ SO jobs and the TTMRA so you're pretty fresh to the industry to harbour so much ill will and to continually bang on about the the pay rates of people who have been successful.
I'm not being facetious, you should choose not to worry about it for your own sake. The guys and girls who have got those great jobs didn't get there by nurturing a bad attitude.
Nunc est bibendum
Flyboat north went onto my ignore list long ago so I have no idea if any useful contribution has been made there- I'd be surprised based on past performance before being added to my ignore list .
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Framer thank you so much for your concerns very nice of you.
I can assure you that there is no angst or frustration at all, however if I did feel there was I would be consulting someone who had professional qualifications and experience in that field , not an aeroplane pilot.
The point I was making in the post was really a rhetorical one.
That is the questions asks when will QF hire new pilots ?
It's the wrong question really , just look at the scenario QF International has , it is mathematically impossible for them to make a profit.
So what are the options ? Really the only one is to shut it down, which in reality is what Joyce has been doing.
Again the QF International fleet is probably about the same size as it was in 1985 , during that time time international pax to Australia have gone up 600%
Do you think there might be a message in that little statistic , & it is more than just all a management conspiracy ?
I can assure you that there is no angst or frustration at all, however if I did feel there was I would be consulting someone who had professional qualifications and experience in that field , not an aeroplane pilot.
The point I was making in the post was really a rhetorical one.
That is the questions asks when will QF hire new pilots ?
It's the wrong question really , just look at the scenario QF International has , it is mathematically impossible for them to make a profit.
So what are the options ? Really the only one is to shut it down, which in reality is what Joyce has been doing.
Again the QF International fleet is probably about the same size as it was in 1985 , during that time time international pax to Australia have gone up 600%
Do you think there might be a message in that little statistic , & it is more than just all a management conspiracy ?
Flyboats said :
Right about now, I'd take that bet.
It's the wrong question really , just look at the scenario QF International has , it is mathematically impossible for them to make a profit.
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QF Long Haul has around 350 less pilots flying its fleet than it had 4 years ago.
Even with that almost every pilot category is operating on min hours. There is a lot of slack to be taken up before recruitment happens. Bring on the new type.
Pure Seniority: There are only 440 captains slots at this time in long haul. There are about 40 permanent FO's so the pure seniority number required to get a LH command right now is about 480. (yes I know there are currently pilots with commands on numbers higher than that.)
I put that out there because even with a new type, some former 767 captains may not re-qualify for a LH command for a long time. The 737 may be their only option till we get a LOT of new type aircraft, remembering that the 747 is likely going to disappear in the short/medium term and the pilots will have to go somewhere.
The same situation applies for FO's, with different number thresholds of course.
Even with that almost every pilot category is operating on min hours. There is a lot of slack to be taken up before recruitment happens. Bring on the new type.
Pure Seniority: There are only 440 captains slots at this time in long haul. There are about 40 permanent FO's so the pure seniority number required to get a LH command right now is about 480. (yes I know there are currently pilots with commands on numbers higher than that.)
I put that out there because even with a new type, some former 767 captains may not re-qualify for a LH command for a long time. The 737 may be their only option till we get a LOT of new type aircraft, remembering that the 747 is likely going to disappear in the short/medium term and the pilots will have to go somewhere.
The same situation applies for FO's, with different number thresholds of course.
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Never read so much BS in all my life.
Why don't we wait and see what the profitability is for QF International come the full year results and next FY. No rush to sign up a new deal. Ask yourselves why QF are in a rush before the Full year results.
Sure Alan and the exec teams bonus will be great!
To suggest a few night credits and a bit of overtime cut are suddenly going to propel QF international to massive profitability are a joke.
Do you really think they are going to look at that and say, "wow, how good Are the pilots sawing off their own legs, let's flush them with 787s, like the good boys and girls they are".
Anyone considered what happens to terms and conditions once the 787 replaces all the 747s and the a330s?
Why don't we wait and see what the profitability is for QF International come the full year results and next FY. No rush to sign up a new deal. Ask yourselves why QF are in a rush before the Full year results.
Sure Alan and the exec teams bonus will be great!
To suggest a few night credits and a bit of overtime cut are suddenly going to propel QF international to massive profitability are a joke.
Do you really think they are going to look at that and say, "wow, how good Are the pilots sawing off their own legs, let's flush them with 787s, like the good boys and girls they are".
Anyone considered what happens to terms and conditions once the 787 replaces all the 747s and the a330s?
Well if you wanted to be paid 250% of market rates & do sweet f**8 all for it , it would probably be a pretty good gig
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here's an interesting idea.
We seem to be giving heaps of money to Kiwis of late (eg. millions to dump their average wine in OZ)
when Kiwi airlines flying domestically in Australia, either RPT or charter, can the pilots/cabin crew be employed on Kiwi salaries & conditions ?
(that's with kiwi registered aircraft & a kiwi AOC)
We seem to be giving heaps of money to Kiwis of late (eg. millions to dump their average wine in OZ)
when Kiwi airlines flying domestically in Australia, either RPT or charter, can the pilots/cabin crew be employed on Kiwi salaries & conditions ?
(that's with kiwi registered aircraft & a kiwi AOC)
Well if you wanted to be paid 250% of market rates & do sweet f**8 all for it , it would probably be a pretty good gig
ALL the 'staff' at QF work bloody hard for the money but more importantly put up with absolute rubbish from complete fools whose airline qualifications are probably that they once made a paper aeroplane or maybe even sat next to someone at school whose brother made one. I am very confident the complaints (which get back to money) would barely be mentioned if the daily dose of complete garbage and lunatic 'strategies' did not have to be swallowed.
Last edited by V-Jet; 24th Mar 2015 at 02:10.
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Not talking about J* rates
The fact is that Qantas Second Officers are earning more than US Widebody Capts & that is why your international business doesn't make money
Plus probably the fact that you take the bum boy along for sectors than nobody else does
440 LH Capts , for what ???
Only 12 Airbus 380s , 26 A330s , not a lot of 747s - a dozen perhaps, what an excessively high crewing ratio you guys have
Especially when you consider at least 16 of the 330s are domestic usage only ; standard crew ratio of 5:1 - well that's how the rest
of the world does it anyway
You have them crewed at ULR ratios , for an airline that primarily does regional international flying
Truly Bizarre
The fact is that Qantas Second Officers are earning more than US Widebody Capts & that is why your international business doesn't make money
Plus probably the fact that you take the bum boy along for sectors than nobody else does
440 LH Capts , for what ???
Only 12 Airbus 380s , 26 A330s , not a lot of 747s - a dozen perhaps, what an excessively high crewing ratio you guys have
Especially when you consider at least 16 of the 330s are domestic usage only ; standard crew ratio of 5:1 - well that's how the rest
of the world does it anyway
You have them crewed at ULR ratios , for an airline that primarily does regional international flying
Truly Bizarre
Last edited by Flyboat North; 24th Mar 2015 at 07:54.
10 crew per aircraft for long haul ops. Same as the middle east company I work for uses.
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Dom you need to look at the data a bit more closely , see you don't have 44 long haul aircraft - maybe you have 24 LH aircraft , 10 MH aircraft , and 18 SH aircraft in your WB fleet.
Emirates have a crewing ration of 9 crews per aircraft for ULR , lesser crewing ratios for LH , and lesser again for MH
You guys are exceeding the most extravagant crewing ratios out there.
This sounds truly like Hollywood - hey I want to come to this party , where's my invitation ?
Emirates have a crewing ration of 9 crews per aircraft for ULR , lesser crewing ratios for LH , and lesser again for MH
You guys are exceeding the most extravagant crewing ratios out there.
This sounds truly like Hollywood - hey I want to come to this party , where's my invitation ?
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when Kiwi airlines flying domestically in Australia, either RPT or charter, can the pilots/cabin crew be employed on Kiwi salaries & conditions ?
Qf staff have fretted about this for 10+ years. And the logic follows that genius decision to shut the business down. Work out the staff numbers from then? 25,000 ish staff and not a single aircraft being operated. Why didn't they sack everyone?
Qantas is at the stage where it isnt beyond the realms of not having enough aircraft to operate. And that is most certainly NOT the fault of staff, who of course will bear the brunt of the blame yet have been warning of this train wreck for years and years and years. The last few comments here could almost have come from board members writing in Qf Pravda!
'Times are tough in aviation and with the oil price having risen from $140 a barrel to well over $30 we are going to have to exercise our latest and grandest Glorious Five Year Plan and cancel our 787 order, defer the remaining 380's and use a number of 330's to park at SIT so our Chairmans Club Guests about to fly EK to Europe can have some Qantas aircraft to look at. An announcement regarding the expanded Management Posititons required in the new Operational, Logistical and Marketing Divisions required to make this adjustment will be made shortly. A Presentation Ceremony will be held at the Qantas Campus to welcome the lucky candidates to their new positions and we urge all staff to make the effort to come along on 1st July to help celebrate this special event'
Qantas is at the stage where it isnt beyond the realms of not having enough aircraft to operate. And that is most certainly NOT the fault of staff, who of course will bear the brunt of the blame yet have been warning of this train wreck for years and years and years. The last few comments here could almost have come from board members writing in Qf Pravda!
'Times are tough in aviation and with the oil price having risen from $140 a barrel to well over $30 we are going to have to exercise our latest and grandest Glorious Five Year Plan and cancel our 787 order, defer the remaining 380's and use a number of 330's to park at SIT so our Chairmans Club Guests about to fly EK to Europe can have some Qantas aircraft to look at. An announcement regarding the expanded Management Posititons required in the new Operational, Logistical and Marketing Divisions required to make this adjustment will be made shortly. A Presentation Ceremony will be held at the Qantas Campus to welcome the lucky candidates to their new positions and we urge all staff to make the effort to come along on 1st July to help celebrate this special event'
Spare aircraft....
Qantas is at the stage where it isnt beyond the realms of not having enough aircraft to operate
Check out their mid week "Fleet Optimisation Plan" in YMML
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10 crew per aircraft for long haul ops. Same as the middle east company I work for uses.
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Fly boat,
You really have it wrong.
Alan has downsized QF international over a long period of time.
Why?
1.Massive growth/investment in Jetstar at the expense of QF. Unless you count a lounge as a fleet investment
2.Ancient fleet of QF international aircraft that required high maintenance and high fuel consumption at previous record high fuel prices above $150 barrel
3.The dollar was $1.15 US
4.Foreign competitors were dumping capacity with the high Aussie dollar
5.QF pulled out of European and UK rights to partner with Emirates.
Your suggesting flight crew cost was a major factor, which shows how baseless and poorly considered your argument is.
Thankfully the fuel price has more than halved and Is forecast to remain low,
The dollar has dropped 35% and is forecast to drop further
Foreign competitors are cutting back capacity, improving our yields.
Our cost base just dropped with the fall in the AUD.
Let's just see the full year result and the forecast for next year.
You really have it wrong.
Alan has downsized QF international over a long period of time.
Why?
1.Massive growth/investment in Jetstar at the expense of QF. Unless you count a lounge as a fleet investment
2.Ancient fleet of QF international aircraft that required high maintenance and high fuel consumption at previous record high fuel prices above $150 barrel
3.The dollar was $1.15 US
4.Foreign competitors were dumping capacity with the high Aussie dollar
5.QF pulled out of European and UK rights to partner with Emirates.
Your suggesting flight crew cost was a major factor, which shows how baseless and poorly considered your argument is.
Thankfully the fuel price has more than halved and Is forecast to remain low,
The dollar has dropped 35% and is forecast to drop further
Foreign competitors are cutting back capacity, improving our yields.
Our cost base just dropped with the fall in the AUD.
Let's just see the full year result and the forecast for next year.