Today, August 24th
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As for the length of the Dispute (no it wasn't a strike),
"A rose by any other name would smell as sweet" isa commonly quoted part of a dialogue in William Shakespeare's play Romeo andJuliet, in which Juliet argues that the names of things do not matter, onlywhat things "are".
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Recursion.
Hamlet : Thrift, thrift, Horatio! the funeral baked meats
Did coldly furnish forth the marriage tables.
Would I had met my dearest foe in heaven
Or ever I had seen that day, Horatio!
Did coldly furnish forth the marriage tables.
Would I had met my dearest foe in heaven
Or ever I had seen that day, Horatio!
Aye well: the wheel turns, the dead are buried, wounds are healed and the true horror of the conflict forgotten; it's a very necessary, self protective human trait. But I'll raise a glass or two in quiet remembrance with a couple of 49'ers and 89'ers; then let it slide away. History will continue to repeat itself I expect; but next time it does, look for me in a quiet corner, farthest away from the fire, knitting socks for the troops.
Selah.
Last edited by Kharon; 26th Aug 2013 at 21:01.
I was a tad young in '89 to be involved in all this, however was old enough to know what career I wanted to pursue...
In that year, I was in high school watching the whole thing unfold and seeing my "heroes" being torn apart by a Labor government (seemingly amazingly). I also recall needing to travel to see relatives urgently and being bungled into the back of a C-130 for a rather slow and noisy trip to Townsville...
The thing that had me confused (and still does, despite my (admittedly) not greatly in depth research on the event) is how can a union be so thoroughly bashed by a Bob Hawke Labor government? I appreciate that the disruption to the country's infrastructure and the impact on business would be enough to "poke the bear" big time, but the support of the government to allow airlines to sue pilots personally and forfeit the protection of their assets / super etc - well, it seems to me like there was something greater at stake that I have missed.
These days, many in these forums who advocate strongly for the AFAP also bay for the blood of a Labor government. Forgive me, but wouldn't AFAP (or any union) be better off under that side of politics?
In my time in the industry I note that the AFAP has never really been a strong force (certainly not like the AWU, CFMEU, or other labour unions, etc) - so if anyone can provide those of us too young to have understood the intricacies of the time a short / clear explanation, I'd be appreciative. Regarding the history of '89, I recall an older gentleman pilot being introduced to me but before he would acknowledge me or shake my hand in greeting, he literally pulled out a notebook to see if I was what was / is known as a "scab" (I recall being mildly offended, as for him to think I am that old was a blow...
)
Personally, I'm no unionist, but certainly respect history in the hope that we learn it's lessons to avoid repeating them. This is a genuine request for a summarised education on the issue, before anyone thinks I am playing "troll".
In that year, I was in high school watching the whole thing unfold and seeing my "heroes" being torn apart by a Labor government (seemingly amazingly). I also recall needing to travel to see relatives urgently and being bungled into the back of a C-130 for a rather slow and noisy trip to Townsville...
The thing that had me confused (and still does, despite my (admittedly) not greatly in depth research on the event) is how can a union be so thoroughly bashed by a Bob Hawke Labor government? I appreciate that the disruption to the country's infrastructure and the impact on business would be enough to "poke the bear" big time, but the support of the government to allow airlines to sue pilots personally and forfeit the protection of their assets / super etc - well, it seems to me like there was something greater at stake that I have missed.
These days, many in these forums who advocate strongly for the AFAP also bay for the blood of a Labor government. Forgive me, but wouldn't AFAP (or any union) be better off under that side of politics?
In my time in the industry I note that the AFAP has never really been a strong force (certainly not like the AWU, CFMEU, or other labour unions, etc) - so if anyone can provide those of us too young to have understood the intricacies of the time a short / clear explanation, I'd be appreciative. Regarding the history of '89, I recall an older gentleman pilot being introduced to me but before he would acknowledge me or shake my hand in greeting, he literally pulled out a notebook to see if I was what was / is known as a "scab" (I recall being mildly offended, as for him to think I am that old was a blow...
)Personally, I'm no unionist, but certainly respect history in the hope that we learn it's lessons to avoid repeating them. This is a genuine request for a summarised education on the issue, before anyone thinks I am playing "troll".
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Flying Bear
Basically Hawke and his government were dead in the water.
He needed a diversion, and interfered in what should have been a minor industrial issue, aided and abetted by his great mate Abels, and Murdoch who controller public opinion via News Ltd
A morally bankrupt Hawke got re-elected and did not give a flying rats @rse about any collateral damage
Basically Hawke and his government were dead in the water.
He needed a diversion, and interfered in what should have been a minor industrial issue, aided and abetted by his great mate Abels, and Murdoch who controller public opinion via News Ltd
A morally bankrupt Hawke got re-elected and did not give a flying rats @rse about any collateral damage
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You might want to add, Marauder, that AFAP acted outside the advice of the ACTU. AFAP also ignored directives from The Industrial Relations Commission. These 2 factors put them outside the 'protection' of a so-called pro-union Labour Party. The ALP only supports the working man when he does as he is told.
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The Australian Pilots Dispute of 1989 by Alex Paterson
To Flying Bear, and others too young to remember--For a pilots perspective on the whole ugly thing. This is a very comprehensive summary of the whole affair. Biased? Certainly written from one mans perspective, well written nonetheless. Accurate? Rings of truth, although that will obviously vary with your personal viewpoint. It bought back some memories for me of the era.
To Flying Bear, and others too young to remember--For a pilots perspective on the whole ugly thing. This is a very comprehensive summary of the whole affair. Biased? Certainly written from one mans perspective, well written nonetheless. Accurate? Rings of truth, although that will obviously vary with your personal viewpoint. It bought back some memories for me of the era.
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To return to the thread's theme....
Every soldier who completes the Israeli Defence Force basic training climbs to the top of the mountain fortification known as Massada which fell to the Romans after a long siege about 2000 years back. At the summit they take the oath...."Never again shall Massada fall"
I would like the year ahead to be a similar "Never again" aspirational and healing year leading the the 25th Anniversary of the Dispute. Never again will pilot be pitted against pilots, never again will the voice of Australia's pilots be muted, or divided, or disregarded, never again will pilots be forced to choose between good decisions and decisions that secure their jobs.
Healing, unity and learning from history.......three fundamental foundations of the future of our profession.
We seek them with diligence and enthusiasm....or ignore them at our peril. To put your own career and bank balance ahead of the collective good....is to imperil all, most especially yourself.
There endeth the sermon. If you'd like to know more, or have some positive plans on how to use this year well.....PM me.
Captain Sherm
Every soldier who completes the Israeli Defence Force basic training climbs to the top of the mountain fortification known as Massada which fell to the Romans after a long siege about 2000 years back. At the summit they take the oath...."Never again shall Massada fall"
I would like the year ahead to be a similar "Never again" aspirational and healing year leading the the 25th Anniversary of the Dispute. Never again will pilot be pitted against pilots, never again will the voice of Australia's pilots be muted, or divided, or disregarded, never again will pilots be forced to choose between good decisions and decisions that secure their jobs.
Healing, unity and learning from history.......three fundamental foundations of the future of our profession.
We seek them with diligence and enthusiasm....or ignore them at our peril. To put your own career and bank balance ahead of the collective good....is to imperil all, most especially yourself.
There endeth the sermon. If you'd like to know more, or have some positive plans on how to use this year well.....PM me.
Captain Sherm
Last edited by Captain Sherm; 27th Aug 2013 at 07:37.
My god, flew with a Captain a while ago who with great pride showed me his 'scab list'. To be honest I couldn't really of cared less, I have read some excellent information on the 89' dispute, but to be honest the fact that I was in college at the time means I have absolutely NO interest in listening to who used to be a scab and who wasn't.
I understand that, for those who were around at the time feelings run deep. I prefer to take people as I find them and find it really unhelpful to be 'prewarned' about my colleagues because of something they did 24 years ago. The saddest thing from my point of view about the 89' dispute is that 24 years later we are still a 'fractured' community who are incapable of united together to stop the rot in our terms and conditions.
Not only did the choices made back then radically change the lives of many, they continue to change the lives of people today. Just don't ask me to dislike someone I have to fly with because, in your opinion, they were on the wrong side back then.
I understand that, for those who were around at the time feelings run deep. I prefer to take people as I find them and find it really unhelpful to be 'prewarned' about my colleagues because of something they did 24 years ago. The saddest thing from my point of view about the 89' dispute is that 24 years later we are still a 'fractured' community who are incapable of united together to stop the rot in our terms and conditions.
Not only did the choices made back then radically change the lives of many, they continue to change the lives of people today. Just don't ask me to dislike someone I have to fly with because, in your opinion, they were on the wrong side back then.
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6 feet UNDER
Ollie,
I too find it amazing that after 24yrs, the '89' dispute is still festering. Those Australian '89' pilots are worse than little children playing in a sandpit.
To 'proudly show his list of scabs' does show the true character of the man who you were unfortunately crewed with. These characters have no place in the flight decks of 'millennium airlines' ie. the post dinosaur age.
Their 'baggage' is unwelcome and should be buried '6 feet UNDER'.
However, there is ONE GOOD thing that occurs every 24Aug anniversary - it is ONE year closer to the day when ALL '89' generation pilots are no longer part of the crews that we younger 'post dinosaur age' pilots comprise.
I fully expect a tirad of abuse- more like a tsunami ? - to appear here as the sun rises over 33°56′46″S 151°10′38″E which is in approx. 8hrs.
I too find it amazing that after 24yrs, the '89' dispute is still festering. Those Australian '89' pilots are worse than little children playing in a sandpit.
To 'proudly show his list of scabs' does show the true character of the man who you were unfortunately crewed with. These characters have no place in the flight decks of 'millennium airlines' ie. the post dinosaur age.
Their 'baggage' is unwelcome and should be buried '6 feet UNDER'.
However, there is ONE GOOD thing that occurs every 24Aug anniversary - it is ONE year closer to the day when ALL '89' generation pilots are no longer part of the crews that we younger 'post dinosaur age' pilots comprise.
I fully expect a tirad of abuse- more like a tsunami ? - to appear here as the sun rises over 33°56′46″S 151°10′38″E which is in approx. 8hrs.
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"I would like the year ahead to be a similar "Never again" aspirational"
Ok Ok, I have one.
"Never again will I surrender my own personal opinion to a bunch of self interested industrially naive legally incompetent twits into professionally doom again.
Never!!!!!
Ok Ok, I have one.
"Never again will I surrender my own personal opinion to a bunch of self interested industrially naive legally incompetent twits into professionally doom again.
Never!!!!!
