You guys deserve each other. Not all Jetstar pilots, but especially you bunch on here. It is such a waste of time reading this thread and it should be shut down.
If you want to sort out this seniority rubbish, how bout go and spend another $35 000 and buy your way up the seniority list like you fools did in 2004 and continue to do so today.....and yet bitch about how you've been screwed missing out on a command position!
By the way 160,000K for an A320 Captain is a joke!
Enjoy your GA company with a licence to operate jets!
MOU Explanatory Note Quote: Fundamental purpose of the MOU The fundamental purpose of the MOU (see clause 4.1 of the MOU) is to provide a mutual exchange of career opportunities for:
• Qantas pilots to take up employment in Jetstar; and
• Jetstar pilots to take up employment in Qantas.
Firstly it's the mutual exchange between people covered by the MOU, (pre oct 2004?) simple. Secondly, if every opportunity was advertised on both sides to covered people (see above) two things would have happened- 1- a back log in JQ MOU numbers could have been avoided and new JQ pilots would have seen/accepted the MOU being an active part of their employment. 2- If all vacencys in QF were shown to JQ eligible pilots only a few would have been taken up as all QF MOU numbers were either SO or possibly B767 FO slot.
Just, as many QF pilots personally had to apply for NON advetised positions in JQ for a "carrer opportunity" so could have JQ pilots for a QF.
Simply, very few JQ positions were advertised pre 2010, even while it was expanding and QF was the reverse. QF pilots were even told MOU was not active as it was short of crew!
The Qantas Group company's decided on when to advertise the slots to both parties, it was never the pilots choice!
OK AFAP, whats your next brain wave idea in order to disrupt the MOU. The latest email from AIPA is very confincing. Its an actual legal opinion rather than a dummy spit !!!
The smoke has cleared and the circus performers have finished, or is it intermission? Maybe an interlude to a bigger performance, one cannot tell. What is certain, is that the Elephant is still front and centre; it’s just that the performers have given up on the elephant hiding show. Such disappointment cannot be contained but for a glimmer of hope for those lucky enough to have obtained the Rosetta Stone of the MOU. Delving through the legalese they shall find a loaded elephant gun.
Quote:
without suggesting necessarily that MOU is a document which is enforceable as a contract.
One would think that with such a major flaw exposed by the architects of the document it would bring into question the future operation of said contract. If the architects have advice that calls into question the enforceability of the contract it is probably only a matter of time before the Indians start to revolt.
My reading of the advice is simply that the MOU would require interpretation as if it were a contract. Council was not asked to consider whether the MOU was enforceable as a contract, so was making it clear that he was not offering an opinion on that.
Do you know of some additional advice that addresses the issue Tony?
I agree. To my knowledge, council wasn’t asked to consider whether the MOU was enforceable as a contract. It begs the question as to why council would think it necessary or appropriate to introduce doubt or even comment as to its enforceability when not asked. Maybe you should ask council whether it is enforceable, or wait to go to court. Either way, 38 numbers may be the least of your problems. By trying to hold onto 38 numbers you may have lost many more. I dare say more illumination on this subject is due. If I were trying to hold onto the MOU, the last thing I would want is my own council questioning the validity of the contract. Talk about an own goal.
Perhaps an ignorant question, would the pilot at the top of the jetstar seniority list have enough comparable seniority to qualify for a command in QF ?.
According to Wiki, jetstar was established in 2003, so would nine years seniority at QF be long enough to hold a command in QF under present circumstances ?.
1/ Qantas exec' and industrial need the MOU. It will serve as a mechanism to manage surplus of Qf mainline pilots now and into the future. Politically and industrially (read FWA) they need it.
2/ Jetstar management seem happy with it as a source of experienced pilots to operate their aeroplanes they otherwise would not have.
3/ Base freeze aside, AIPA/Qantas pilots are not complaining.
4/ The only group unhappy with it are a poorly led, ill informed cadre of junior JQ pilots who think they are hardly done by.
A clear and objective legal opinion has been provided. If that naive cadre can convince the AFAP to pursue it further, go right ahead. Perhaps after the DJ NO vote they may not feel so adventurous. Or they can spend their own time and money. Personally I would be concentrating on the upcoming EBA. Oh yes, AIPA will be party to that so I would forget trying to sabotage it that way.
Afraid not Josh. The most senior JQ ghost # would qualify for a 73' FO slot. Recent Qf time to command has been no less than 10 years. I think it's currently closer to 14 or 15.
The only pilots that suffer ( in their eyes ) are the ones that joined the company with full knowledge ( plus or minus ) of the MOU being inplace and operating.
So ,its not number one on the jetstar seniority list wanting an A380 command in QF.
This whole argument sounds awfully familiar. I refer to the situation last year(?) (or was it the year before?) when a bunch of JQ cadets complained they were being paid below the poverty line on an agreement to which they agreed to! (obviously separate to the JQ EBA). So the AFAP (and possibly AIPA) got involved and got these whingers back on the EBA after they knew full well what they were getting themselves into...
Sounds to me that the junior JQ guys are whinging for whinging sake. Or am I being too general and simplistic?
Iron bar and others, When you say experienced guys coming across to Jetstar, you are really saying some reasonably experienced F/O's coming to take their first commands. Yes some of these F/O's are reasonably experienced, but theres alot of experience within the Jetstar ranks as well, so to keep going on about how the Jetstar group needs them is far from the truth. As far as the Qantas guys not complaining, also not correct. Ask a few of the Darwin based guys who are the loudest whingers, and you might be surprised when you hear the answer.
1/ Qantas exec' and industrial need the MOU. It will serve as a mechanism to manage surplus of Qf mainline pilots now and into the future. Politically and industrially (read FWA) they need it.
This is all any of this is really about!
While Aipa and the AFAP f*&k around wasting members money getting interpretations from lawyers and leaking money the company (Qantas Group) know that it doesn't matter how much we have beaten each other up they will have the final say on their interpretation on what the MOU says.
And guess what? their interpretation will be the one that suits them on the day!!!!! And at the moment it's all about managing the surplus.
Stop wasting Bullsh#t amounts of OUR money and time and accept this agreement is in place and move on FFS!!!!!
If you you joined post MOU anf don't like it F@%k off and join another "Group".
Or am I being too general and simplistic?
