Regardless of the relaxing of standards of the governing body, as far as our " line in the sand" goes.... If it is not safe , it's not departing . There is a huge amount of pressure from above in making that call, especially pushing curfew. I would rather face the consequences of being wrong than departing the flight and being proven right . In my experience with foreign carriers, that's what makes us amongst the best when it comes to safety . I'm not trashing any other airline.. I'm basing my opinion on what I've seen and been involved with .
Nobody likes bad news and the greatest impediment to change is the acceptance that change is required. QANTAS product delivery is not a matter of ‘passenger perception/expectation’ – it is a matter of comparison – comparison with what a significant number of other carriers offer and deliver. Unfortunately for so many, QANTAS doesn’t cut it anymore. On the issue of comparative safety – it is true and it’s not true. I have operated under about a dozen jurisdictions and trained and checked in most of them. The safety comparison is not true with respect to QANTAS’ main opposition carriers, and it is true of some other operators; but I can’t think of too many of these who significantly compete for QANTAS customers. If QF domestic wasn’t the safest operator in the world, there would be something terribly, terribly wrong – benign climate, low density traffic routes, efficient safety driven English speaking ATC, quality equipment, cultural compatibility, quality maintenance, and monitored compulsory training standards. The overall environment is about as good as it gets worldwide – probably the best.
Whilst I don’t profess to dwell in Sunfish’s lofty circles, I am a frequent J Class traveler. Ignoring gross corporate mismanagement (if you can), one of the premier issues for return business is product delivery, and in very many cases in the high and medium yield world, I have to say that the bad news is that for so many , Sunfish has it nailed.
Last edited by Olive61; 18th Oct 2012 at 10:58.
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I get the thrust of your comments Olive but I just want to skewer an ongoing myth and make a few points.
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...benign climate, low density traffic routes....
1. SYD-MEL-SYD is amongst the busiest routes in the world. SYD-BNE-SYD probably isn't too far behind. Add in the plethora of other traffic from other places into the mix as well as the mix of aircraft type and it's a bit of a shambles. 2. Our airfields are mostly a long way apart- at least compared to Europe and many parts of the US. 3. Whilst our climate is relatively benign, I reckon it's a lot more changeable. Rare to get unforecast thunderstorms in SIN or LHR. Not uncommon at BNE, MEL, SYD, PER. Never had unforecast FG in SIN, get it a few times a year in BNE, SYD, MEL, and PER. Once that occurs, point 2 applies.
I've flown overseas on the odd occasion over the years. Flying around Australia on nice days is easy and your point is valid on those days. Flying around Australia on an unpleasant day is worse than anything I've experienced when flying in/ out of London, Rome, Frankfurt, LAX, New York (admittedly it was only snowing when I was there, not a blizzard), Tahiti, Auckland, Wellington, Christchurch (snowing), Narita (snowing one season, Thunderies the next), Osaka, Taipei, Manila, Hong Kong, Port Moresby, Honolulu, Shanghai, etc.
Anyway, not trying to start a 'our life is tougher than everywhere else' type comparison. Quite obviously many places have their days. Just don't want the BS line that 'Australia is easier than everywhere else' myth to perpetuate.
Lol. Dig at them not intended. Both our ATCOs and BuMET forecasters do the best job they can with the cards they've been dealt.
LAX doesn't get the mix of jets/ lighties that Sydney does. Yes, they get lighties. They don't get as many of them. They've also got a better airspace structure and more tarmac to move them. Same applies to LHR, FRA, NRT, etc.
As for weather forecasting, our environment is just crappy. I don't envy them the job. Cry wolf with FG in PER too often and the airlines are bleating about carrying fuel for when it wasn't needed. Get it wrong just once and don't forecast it and you've got angry pilots bleating about not having enough fuel.
Hello Keg - no argument from me – my points which were made about climate and traffic density were general relative comparisons. Australia has had no airport which ranks in the world’s top 40 for aircraft movements for yonks. Having operated on every continent, with the exception of South America, I can assure you that generally the Australian climate is indeed benign as you acknowledge, and yes, on the odd day you do get met surprises no matter what part of the world you are in.
…. And I will definitely not get started on the state of OZ aviation infrastructure, ATC flow management, BoM services, Airports Corporations various …. Definitely not going there. Regards Olive
Last edited by Olive61; 18th Oct 2012 at 11:00.
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Olive, I can see where you are coming from as a customer, you just want a great product - the front line staff for the most part do as well.
Consider the possibility that management have been actively and deliberately sabotaging the product for their own nefarious ends. Was the illegal lock-out (under the guise of a "safety shutdown") of the ENTIRE AIRLINE an appropriate and proportionate response given actions taken by the unions up to that point? How about the alleged losses incurred by International (an unreported business segment in any public published accounts), and then the "terminal decline" of the international business (QF ACCC submission on EK) necessitating the non-equity takeover of Qantas by Emirates?
Is there a chance, just a small chance that there has been an act of monumental economic vandalism perpetrated against the customers, staff, shareholders and the duped Australian public? Is is also possible that most staff, are laboring under enormous stress, deliberately induced to reduce resistance for the momentous changes that will reward the senior managers handsomely as they parachute out to the their next venture.
As far as I can see, the front line staff are doing an amazing job given their contrived circumstances. If it wasn't for the grit and tenacity of many individuals, this operation would have been in the ditch many years ago. I believe the front line staff have kept this operation going in spite of the management.
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the greatest impediment to change is the acceptance that change is required.
Is the change required by the staff or management?
You really want to search and read up on Dr Kurt Lewin, father of management psychology and "change management". He came up with the unfreeze -change -refreeze model of group change based on how shell shocked solders were found to be much more easily manipulated during WWII. That is what has gone on here, the deliberate engineering of "shell shock" to railroad change that is not in the interest of any other group except senior management.
I did pen into my post …… Ignoring gross corporate mismanagement (if you can),
I am familiar with Lewins model, and a good deal of management research which are more targeted models based on Helen Clinards ‘conscious competence’ theme. Whether QFs current senior management is stuck in the ‘unconscious incompetence’ phase (not yet knowing what you don’t know) or whether they are indulged in ‘conscious incompetence’ (with associated end strategies), I have no idea.
To respond directly to your post ---- I pretty much agree with all of it, and suspect that your observations and speculations may well be valid.
Excellent post TWE, I think you have about nailed it.
Yep on the money..
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I pretty much agree with all of it, and suspect that your observations and speculations may well be valid.
Olive, I too can see where you are coming from in your earlier posts... although it appears that you have made your mind up to not return to Qantas, which is a shame... I wish I knew how to change your mind.. but I respect your previous stated reasons why....
Having said that, the current management running the show seem to have no plan at all, always lurching from one crisis to the next.. as I said before confusing both models they manage (Premium & LCC...) As time went by, both business models seemed to have fused themselves together causing bewilderment with the front line staff and the customers as there were so many mixed messages floating around the public arena.... the product perceptions tarnished.
Frankly, I doubt this current management would know what Helen Clinards ‘conscious competence’ was.. wouldn't surprise me if they thought it was a cathedral in London or Paris..
Trust you can now begin see what the front line staff have had to put up with over the past few years... "uncertainty" is the first word that always comes to mind...
Airlines are a people business, inspire its people and good things begin to happen again... it is really that simple... and has been done before..
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Continental Airlines
When Bethune took over in 1994 as COO and President of Continental Airlines the troubled airline had twice faced bankruptcy and was again headed that direction. A search firm hired by Continental's board of directors suggested Bethune, who had recently completed an Advanced Management Course at the Harvard Business School, to salvage the company. Bethune quickly made his mark on the carrier recognizing that a good airline was defined by customer satisfaction, not just cost per available seat mile. Bethune ascended to the role of CEO and was elected chairman of the board of directors in 1996. Continental went from being ranked last in every measurable performance category to winning more J.D. Power and Associates awards for Customer Satisfaction than any other airline in the world. BusinessWeek magazine named Bethune one of the top 25 Global Managers in 1996 and 1997. Under his leadership Continental's stock price rose from $2 to over $50 per share.
How about the alleged losses incurred by International (an unreported business segment in any public published accounts), and then the "terminal decline" of the international business (QF ACCC submission on EK) necessitating the non-equity takeover of Qantas by Emirates?
Sums it up nicely, from an airline that publishes the fact that there is virtually no opportunity for staff travel anywhere on the international network (except Noumea)
Many thanks for the post. As a customer, I have experienced and witnessed all that you have posted, and there have been many posts here expressing similar sentiments to yours and providing many other examples.
I said …. QANTAS product delivery is not a matter of ‘passenger perception/expectation’ – it is a matter of comparison – comparison with what a significant number of other carriers offer and deliver. Unfortunately for so many, QANTAS doesn’t cut it anymore.
He said…. Bethune quickly made his mark on the carrier recognizing that a good airline was defined by customer satisfaction, not just cost per available seat mile.
I think I very very much agree with Mr Bethune, and I also think it is clear that he was proven correct.
The demise of the QF product and my decision not to continue with QF was no hasty decision. It was an evolving process over several years. Eventually I gave up and went elsewhere. If I think the VW Golf suits my purpose and my wallet, I can’t see the point in purchasing a Lada, which I don’t like, in the hope that someone will come along and fix up all the bits I don’t like. Dysfunction has been defined as repetition of the same process, with the expectation that there will be a different outcome.
As I have said before, I have many friends and colleagues at QF, and I hope they can fix it. How you define ‘they’ is arguable, but it must start at the top, and that clearly isn’t happening with the current brood of well heeled nomads and mercenaries.
It is not possible for a company to deliver a sustainable good quality product while engaging in deceitful and cruel behaviour towards its employees, such as we have witnessed in Qantas documented treatment of its engineers - which continues to this day.
Anecdotes about the occasional selfless behaviour of cabin crew are nice to read, but they prove nothing. Mussolini made the trains run on time.
Qantas is dysfunctional, period, because it's management is dysfunctional. Superhuman performance by staff who adhere to the values of "the old Qantas " which we knew and loved can't mask this.
That is why myself and many others don't trust it and won't use it.
I haven't got the time, but I'd love to know the number of times, in your many thousand posts, you've predicted the end of Qantas? Or that it was about to be taken over by private equity? Or that the entire world economic system was on the brink and about to teeter over the precipice? Ever heard of the boy that cried wolf? It's wearing thin.
I haven't got the time, but I'd love to know the number of times, in your many thousand posts, you've predicted the end of Qantas? Or that it was about to be taken over by private equity? Or that the entire world economic system was on the brink and about to teeter over the precipice? Ever heard of the boy that cried wolf? It's wearing thin.
I've neve said "Qantas is going to end" what I have consistently said, is that Qantas, as a publicly owned and traded stockmarket entity that is the national flag carrier for Australia is going to end. Qantas is going to end up as a brand name for someone else or a privately owned entity bent on screwing the life out of Australian consumers.
Evidence? WTF do you think the APA bid was?
WTF do you think the deliberately cruel and unusual treatment of Qantas staff is about -which continues to this day? Do you think that is sustainable?
WTF do you think the Alan Joyce lunches with Geoff Dixon were about?
WTF do you think the sudden Red Q rush of blood, followed by its abandonment, was about?
WTF do you think the grounding of the airline was about?
WTF do you think the tie up with Emirates is about?
WTF do you think the angry comments of John Singleton were about?
WTF do you think VB is doing so well?
Fringy baby, these are not the actions of a Board and management group that are bent on creating sustainable shareholder value, let alone any competitive level of customer satisfaction.
As for the world economy, it is collapsing as we watch: Ireland, Greece, Spain, Portugal, Italy and more to follow. The U.S. "fiscal cliff" approaches with massive programed spending cuts. Just read the IMF latest report. We have also had the second self immolation this month - an unemployed man set himself on fire in front of the Quirinale today. There is over 25% unemployment in Spain and Greece.
Talk to the stockbrokers, mine tells me that trading volume is pitiful because even the mums and dads have worked out what is happening by now.
If you think the future for Qantas is rosy and so is the world economy then I have a bridge to sell you.
