First class is about something else. Call it experience, or status, or whatever you like, it commands a massive premium in exchange for it being "just right". So when it's not "just right" then it's wrong. Simple as that.
I agree with the service part, as I have stated earlier. But I don't agree that a set of brand name PJ's would add to the overall "experience" of the service, before, during and after the flight.
There's part of the problem. those damn PJs *ARE* part of the experience, they make THESE individuals feel special. And in reality that's all first class is. Economy to Business is a major improvement. Business to First isn't such a huge step.
But when you get to fly First it's an incredible feeling (done it twice via upgrades).
If you do it regularly it confirms your status and position, that's what is being sold. Not just PJs but social differentiation. Some people are prepared to pay for it and they are prepared to pay massively. So Qantas takes their money and good on them. They sold what the customer wanted.
Think it doesn't have a powerful level of command and respect? Think again.
As a pretty regular customer I garnered enough status points to be a Platinum and use the First class check in line. I have to admit, that's where I reckon the most benefit is, that whole process is made brilliantly easy rather than a long laborious queue.
Anyway, I was once coming back from Europe and as with all things when you're away from home the infrastructure isn't as large as it is when flying QF in Aus. Got to the airport and there's a woman giving every staff member in sight a hell of a hard time, she wanted this and that and everything else and was mouthing off everywhere and telling the whole airport how important she was. Complete bitch quite frankly. Handled about as well as was possible by the QF staff who showed great restraint.
But then something amusing happened.
After finishing my duty free shopping (like my Scotch just a little bit too much some would say) I rocked up to check in and wandered down the First queue. And guess who happened to be at the head of Business queue (all of abotu 5 or 6 people/couples so not a terribly long line but still too long for her highness)? Still mouthing off. everything was taking far too long. And there was no way she was giving way to this bloke who rocked up after her so she decided she was next.
Only to be told, in a very sweet and polite manner by a very smiley QF staffer, that customers in First had priority and she would have to wait.
That completely and utterly shut the big mouth up. Not a peep in the next 5 minutes or so and I never saw her again after that but I certainly didn't hear her again. She was totally deflated because her own sense of importance got overridden.
Now you could argue that we both got on the same plane and we both left and arrived at the same time etc. But the invisible social power of that differentiation seen by very few people was enough to put her right back in her box. That's what those PJs represent to those particular customers. They give them demonstrable social cachet. Be that right or wrong, and I would agree they appear incredibly insecure and shallow people, that is what they value. A tiny detail in the scheme of things, but it is those tiny details that the customer pays for.
Think credit cards. Platinum cards cost several hundred dollars a year for generally meagre, if any at all, benefits. Yet people pay. It impresses others. It marks them in a positive manner. Simple as that.
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Originally Posted by 94
Have a read of the two articles below, both from very prestigious car makers, and the faults in them, after the very high premiums have been paid, and after potentially causing accidents. Using your analogy, the PJ deprived passengers are in the same category as those who paid a high premium for their prestige cars and whose vehicles weren't "just right".
Sort of. At the utilitarian level there is no reason to buy an expensive car, we should all drive el cheapo Hyundais or whatever. These days there is VERY little difference between the various marques. Yet because BMW, Mercedes etc were once a long way ahead in terms of quality and they have maintained and built on that tradition people still pay a premium. Personally I can't stand BMWs, to me they're worse than Volvos in terms of what they say. And they're predominantly made in China and SAfrica factories rather than by the traditional German craftsmen.
But I do like Italian cars, I own one. Not a Ferrari or even a Maserati but an Alfa. A tiny, stupid, inconvenient, underpowered, athsmatic and illogical 2 door convertible (now 12 years old). It's worth maybe $10K tops but when I drive around I feel like a million dollars. I just love the experience. I can't explain it but that's what it does for me.
The intangible. That's what First is. That's what my Alfa is.
And when anything goes wrong with my Alfa (somewhat bizarrely the most reliable car I have ever owned - that can be interpreted as either a statistical improbability, as a tribute to improved Alfa build standards or perhaps to the fact every other car I have owned has been a real sh*tbox and thus the bar is very low) I absolutely hate it. I'll pull it apart or pay overpriced mechanics (compared to their peers) to fix it. That's just my thing. For some people they get the same gratification from First. That's the power of the intagible and that's what Joyce is, in my opinion, destroying. Hence my comment.
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Originally Posted by 94
In reality, the PJ's make no difference whatsoever other than a sense of entitlement and a keepsake of their "experience". The mechanical problems however, no matter the price of the car, are ones worthy of demand and entitlement.
Your customers disagree.
Are you prepared to listen to them?
Or will you just tell them you are right and their opinion is invalid?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 94
If people don't have the maturity to match their wealth, they should stay in economy.
Maybe this case wasn't isolated for them. Let's consider they travel with QF first class or business class reasonably frequently. Have they been let down time and time again by sh!tty little things that just shouldn't happen when they are spending so much money.
Just maybe this wasn't just a case of ONE set of Pyjamas. Maybe it was more a case of "well stuff it, I have finally had a gut full of this airline."
Always two sides to a story and I'm not sure that one isolated incident such as this would create such a meltdown.
Trevor: you'll find they expressed to media sources they were happy to fly Qantas again. Given the way the problem was dealt with ect, he even expressed to the crew "you can tell them if you want" and so he did. Perhaps one needs to get their head around the sky isn't falling over an odd situation like this.
is that correct? isn't there a little secret that QF do not like to advertise? i.e. pickup from home/hotel etc to airport? valet at the airport? I was told that this is what JB introduced, it was not advertised because 'it was suppose to be the Australian way, i.e. don't brag, just do it'
No limo on QF First.
If departing SYD/MEL, call the day before to book a spa appointment and given number of QF Host. Curbside baggage at SYD/MEL and dedicated checkin area. In the First lounge they will reserve a table while you have your massage. You will be greeted by a host who has done some research and engage you in commentary (how was your last flight to xxx, we have seen many people from company yyy recently) On Board, the food is slightly better (but a direct comparison shows many choices shared with Business), the alcohol and service substantially better, the seat and IFE bigger.. And the PJs are brown not grey, and rather than a massive black roo, they have a far more subtle brown one, and a tag on the back collar that simply says "FIRST"
It reminds me of the scale of force/force continuum used by law enforcement agencies. The idea is that you respond to a situation with the same or one level greater use of force.
Someone threatens you verbally? The acceptable level of force may be verbal or basic physical control, depending on the circumstance.
Someone threatens you with a machete or a gun that you believe is loaded? The acceptable level of force is much greater and may be fatal. However, it's not appropriate to shoot someone dead just because they verbally threatened you.
Likewise, IMO not having the right peejays is a problem when you've paid a lot for a first class ticket. Probably worthy of a verbal spray, a nasty letter and a change of carrier for future flights.
Worthy of a tantrum? Probably a little excessive, a bit un but within the acceptable level of force.
Worthy of stomping off and delaying everyone else, including a number of first class pax who also paid top dollar? Don't think so. Just how good are these jammies? Do they sing you to sleep or something?
Life is full of small disappointments. The 60 buck restaurant main is average, the expensive French champagne tastes like Yellow, the Alfa breaks down, costs a bomb to fix and a month waiting for what turns out to be the wrong parts (not that that should be surprise, mi amore )...shit happens. Don't most people just deal with it? You still get the big bed, the fancy wine, the knowledge that your seat is swankier than everyone else's and that everyone knows you're a Big Cheese 'cos your luggage tags say so. First World problems...
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And the PJs are brown not grey, and rather than a massive black roo, they have a far more subtle brown one
Brown, eh? Queensland Corrective Services issue brown peejays too. Very swanky colour, brown...lots of wealthy guys have worn it; even a few pollies. Until they served their time, anyway.
Last edited by Worrals in the wilds; 13th Aug 2012 at 15:01.
The point here is that QANTAS LAX never keep enough PJs of any size and these pax have probably been let down on a number of occasions including not having their desired meal available and IFE being on the fritz on more than one occasion.
The problem is we usually talk the talk but NOTHING ever changes. So, a business person who doesn't want to sit in their suit for 14 hours is left with one sound means of 'getting through' to management. Angry letters and all that stuff don't have any effect. This reaction does and good on them I say.
It's high time we started walking the walk. The world is full of Y-gen bullshit artists. So there!
thanks for that update moa. Makes me think that they are attempting to sell one story to new recruits (that is who told me) as the oldies wouldn't believe them.
Also makes me think of the latest announcement regarding the OOL service. Ch 9 flogged it this morning. So are management listening to their customers? might be a big supply heading to LAX now to ensure that there are always XL, XXL or XXXL PJ' ready !!
is that correct? isn't there a little secret that QF do not like to advertise? i.e. pickup from home/hotel etc to airport? valet at the airport?
I was told that this is what JB introduced, it was not advertised because 'it was suppose to be the Australian way, i.e. don't brag, just do it'
That's a nice to have I certainly agree (not that I've ever experienced it).
What I meant was the jump in service level from Business to First (even allowing for the transit) is not as great as the jump in service when you go from Economy to Business. Diminishing returns and all that.
I travel business regularly enough and these days for pleasure, but I have used first several times to understand the differences are not value enough.
So why pay the difference? Romulus is right to say "for the experience"
It IS an experience, and while the "experience" is great, it does wear off. Like buying a new car, it's great driving it and getting used to the bells and whistles, but you get used to it. Business and skybeds are great as well, and the experience isn't that different. If you have used first enough, you get used to it and you find you don't use most of the services for which you have paid. Mostly I've travelled overnight so it's really only the bed. It's the same comfort in business as first in my view.
I have it straight from the horse [shall we say] that a couple of weeks before the alleged pyjama incident a crew delayed in LAX waiting for First Class doonas [the quilty things that first class pax are provided with to sleep on]. At 30 minutes to departure the Duty Manager was notified that the doona department were 8 short. At departure time, still no show. Pressure, pressure - gotta go. Oh, well, not really - not without the doonas anyway. So, the waiting began. It took about another 20 mins., but 8 doonas duly arrived and the flight pushed back soon after. Blows the Manager's KPIs out of the water, but hey, it kept the suits happy. It isn't rocket science.
Last edited by Captain Gidday; 14th Aug 2012 at 11:44.
Its transport,pure and simple.All this other nonsense about cheap PJs indicate that many people live in a goddam bubble of self absorbment. Academics have this inane attitude that the world revolves around them. It doesn't.They eat,Shite and die like the rest of us. Tools tossers wankers
Its transport,pure and simple.All this other nonsense about cheap PJs indicate that many people live in a goddam bubble of self absorbment. Academics have this inane attitude that the world revolves around them. It doesn't.They eat,Shite and die like the rest of us. Tools tossers wankers
Maybe, but they are paying your wage. So smile and treat them how they wish to be treated.
One ticket is worth 10 economy tickets for the same payload uplift. It's called yield and the company needs more of it.
Last edited by The Green Goblin; 14th Aug 2012 at 23:27.
Its transport,pure and simple.All this other nonsense about cheap PJs indicate that many people live in a goddam bubble of self absorbment. Academics have this inane attitude that the world revolves around them. It doesn't.They eat,Shite and die like the rest of us. Tools tossers wankers
Maybe, but they are paying your wage. So smile and treat them how they wish to be treated.
One ticket is worth 10 economy tickets for the same payload uplift. It's called yield and the company needs more of it.
My point exactly
If they wanted pure transport they would go economy.
Just Heard a rumour That the !0 LAMEs to go in Late Oct will be receiving a letter off Qantas Legal telling them they will not be getting there 12 weeks severance pay that the last departing engineers where payed, This will help save the KPI of the managers (nice little bonus ) They have been told if they want to go now they will receive NO VR .The average years off service is over 26 years, What a way to reward your staff, LOW LIFE SCUM THE LOT OFF THEM. POX ON THEM ALL.
Its transport,pure and simple.All this other nonsense about cheap PJs indicate that many people live in a goddam bubble of self absorbment. Academics have this inane attitude that the world revolves around them. It doesn't.They eat,Shite and die like the rest of us. Tools tossers wankers
So you believe in utilitarianism.
Have you ever bought branded clothes? Tool, tosser, ******. After all, Its (sic) clothing, pure and simple.
Sunglasses?
Ever bought anything but the cheapest car? Tool, tosser, ******. After all, Its (sic) transport, pure and simple.
And so on.
You've missed the point packrat, the customer who PAYS out of discretionary funds CHOOSES what they wish to pay for and they expect to get it. To believe otherwise is to subscribe to what many see as the Alan Joyce theory of life - lowest price wins, nothing else matters.
By that logic, restaurants are purely about feeding people. Look out for my new chain of Gruel Express stores coming to a food court near you! I'll make zillions... However, I do think he made a bigger fuss than was called for.
but within the acceptable level of force. 
)...shit happens. Don't most people just deal with it? You still get the big bed, the fancy wine, the knowledge that your seat is swankier than everyone else's and that everyone knows you're a Big Cheese 'cos your luggage tags say so. 
