QANTAS - WHERE TO NOW?
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Just read Virgin flew more people domestically than Qantas for the last 12 months. Virgin flew 1.42 million QF 1.37 million. The spin Dr's at QF claimed recently that QF Domestic made $600 million 2011-2012. I know there are other factors BUT 600 million divided by 1.37 million equates to $437 profit per passenger. AJ Please explain!
Those passenger figures were for the month of April 2012, not the year mate. There's your explanation!
http://www.qantas.com.au/infodetail/.../April2012.pdf
http://www.qantas.com.au/infodetail/.../April2012.pdf
Last edited by DirectAnywhere; 4th Jul 2012 at 10:16.
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In the year to May 31, Virgin carried 15.53 million domestic passengers, compared to 15.49m on Qantas-branded flights.
The Qantas figures do not include passengers who flew with its fully-owned subsidiary, Jetstar, which carried 830,000 passengers in May and 9.84m passengers in the year to May.
The Qantas figures do not include passengers who flew with its fully-owned subsidiary, Jetstar, which carried 830,000 passengers in May and 9.84m passengers in the year to May.
To state the obvious, it's all about yield. ie Qantas flights to Athens were always full, but they made no money. The yields they are getting domestically, especially from big mining contracts, still far outweigh Virgin's. So I don't think you're going to see flash profitability from Virgin, despite carrying more pax.
DR, i think the yields are a huge issue with Qantas. They are still seeing a large amount of the "free" tickets from last years grounding come through the system. Also many flights are code-shared with Jetstar, so the yield isn't as strong as you might think. Add in the mining contracts are a lot tighter than they used to be and you start seeing the big picture. Joyce seems to be obsessed with capacity, on the other hand JB seems to value yield....only one of these puts money in the bank.
With Emirates flooding the market even more, yields will further decline for Qantas, it needs some real leadership to turn it around, which unfortunately it is lacking at the moment.
With Emirates flooding the market even more, yields will further decline for Qantas, it needs some real leadership to turn it around, which unfortunately it is lacking at the moment.
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The division of the rather large mining company that I work for has just, this week, issued a directive to book Virgin where possible now for domestic travel instead of Qantas. Never thought I'd see it happen, but it has.
Reasons given were 'significant cost savings'.
Reasons given were 'significant cost savings'.
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#eyeroll
All these sky falling scenario's are amusing, particularly the most recent. Very little will change, one or two may change over but certainly not anything to bat an eye lid at. The most important contracts are already sewn up for many years to come. Let's not forget that Fortescue Metals have already switched away from VA due poor service offered.
All these sky falling scenario's are amusing, particularly the most recent. Very little will change, one or two may change over but certainly not anything to bat an eye lid at. The most important contracts are already sewn up for many years to come. Let's not forget that Fortescue Metals have already switched away from VA due poor service offered.
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With Emirates flooding the market even more, yields will further decline for Qantas, it needs some real leadership to turn it around, which unfortunately it is lacking at the moment.
Qantas is caught in a pincer movement between large capacity increases on international routes by state-sponsored airlines seeking to benefit from a strong economy and Australians' desire to travel with a high dollar, and a price war with Virgin Australia in its lucrative domestic market.
A week after Singapore Airlines singled out Australia as one of two markets worldwide it is targeting for growth, Emirates announced a 50 per cent increase in its flights to Perth by early next year and Adelaide as the fifth Australian city it would fly to by November.
Read more: Emirates puts heat on Qantas
A contact– make that dead man walking–in Qantas sounded shattered but in good humor this morning. He referred to being under siege from the Virgins and the ‘Emirartichokers’ in response to reports that Virgin Australia was carrying more passengers on domestic routes than Qantas, and that Emirates had run amok with a trebling of daily services out of Perth from next March, while it would start flights between its global hub at Dubai and Adelaide from November 1 (and daily from next February.)Emirates, Australia, and its global aviation food chain | Plane Talking
"Oh what tangled webs we weave when first we practice to deceive."
My views on the coterie of Sydney - centric folk who regard Qantas as their personal plaything is unprintable.
The company remains "in play" and has been since the failed APA bid, and I suspect that the main players will be the same when the next bid eventually surfaces.
I fully expect that the Good Minister Albanese will sidle up to Julia Gillard shortly, if he hasn't done so already, and tell her that the price of NSW Labor support for her to remain in the PM's office is her Governments acquiesence to the sale of Qantas to private interests.
My views on the coterie of Sydney - centric folk who regard Qantas as their personal plaything is unprintable.
The company remains "in play" and has been since the failed APA bid, and I suspect that the main players will be the same when the next bid eventually surfaces.
I fully expect that the Good Minister Albanese will sidle up to Julia Gillard shortly, if he hasn't done so already, and tell her that the price of NSW Labor support for her to remain in the PM's office is her Governments acquiesence to the sale of Qantas to private interests.
Last edited by Sunfish; 5th Jul 2012 at 22:28.
Man fined for knocking out his boss over work dispute | News.com.au
$300 to give your boss a smack in the mouth hey? Hmmmmmm
$300 to give your boss a smack in the mouth hey? Hmmmmmm
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Can American Airlines find a Qantas updraft?
By Robert Gottliebsen & Alexander Liddington-Cox
Qantas’ US alliance partner, American Airlines, has now been under Chapter 11 bankruptcy for more than seven months. Qantas shares have fallen dramatically during that time because the market realises that the Australian airline faces similar problems to its US partner – higher costs than its rivals. In today’s tough world, uncompetitive enterprises, whether they be airlines or confectionery makers, go out of business. Middle and some top managers, workers and unions do not always understand this.
Whereas the Australian government hates Qantas for grounding the airline earlier this year, in the US the company is admired for attempting to become competitive without bankruptcy.
American is the last major US airline to enter Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection, underlining the cost pressures of the global aviation market that Qantas Airways has better managed.
“I think Qantas has been a lot smarter, seeking those regional codeshare kinds of alliances that allow them to tailor to the market flow at the time,” Frost & Sullivan aerospace and defence industry manager Wayne Plucker tells Business Spectator.
“That’s something American can’t do, short of parking the airplanes.”
The reason why American is so stuck is that its costs are so out of whack with its rivals. Plucker says that its pilots are paid 10-20 per cent more than other US carriers, while flight attendants collect and extra 5-10 per cent and mechanics also receive more than the industry average.
While Qantas enjoys a profitable domestic arm, American has watched its bread and butter routes between New York, LAX and San Francisco slide into unprofitability thanks principally to labour costs.
“The airline has been using companies like Skywest and Comair to pick up a lot of those regional routes,” says Plucker. “Originally they did it with the idea of taking them back when they returned to profitability, the reality is they’re never going to get them back at this point.”
It means that international alliances are to some extent useless because there’s no point feeding foreign travellers into a network that’s not profitable. This illustrates why Qantas will fight Virgin Australia hard domestically to retain its current position, particularly in the business market. As American shows, if it fails the consequences will be dire. American wages have to come down and workers have to be more flexible if the carrier, once the biggest and best organised US carrier, is to have any meaningful future.
The US Transport Workers Union has been campaigning for an American merger because it believes a deal holds the best chance of preserving some of the excessive wages.
The parent company of American Airlines, AMR Corp, has resisted the move up until this point, but has now acknowledged that a deal could be the best route.
But it’s been clear for a long time that American could be left without a suitable dance partner because Delta Airlines and United Airlines went into bankruptcy protection earlier and formed mergers with Northwest Airlines and Continental Airlines, respectively. Merging with either of these two players would inevitably throw up antitrust issues.
There’s a compelling case for American to link up with US Airways, fifth largest by traffic, which is keen to do a deal and even won the support of airline unions.
But there’s the added problem that, as Qantas has found, airlines can be stubborn beasts to manage. US Airways itself was lifted from of bankruptcy by America West seven years ago, with US Airways Group keeping the name.
However, to this day the staff of both airlines have not been merged. Pilots for America West don’t fly US Airways planes. What would the picture look like with American on the books?
To some extent American’s management lethargy can be traced back to the culture created by the decision that set it on course for national domination in the first place.
Back in the 1960s and early 70s the dominant international carriers were Trans World Airlines and Pan American World Airways. American was in third place, but so far behind that it may has well have been nowhere.
“But perhaps the difference for them is they had a national route structure that the US congress denied to PanAm and TWA, they could only go into the main hub hubs to feed their oversees routes,” says Plucker. “Effectively the US congress killed TWA and PanAm.”
This helped propel American into the number one position heading in to the 21st century. It even merged with TWA in 2001 when the carrier finally ran out of puff.
American enjoyed a big chunk of the lucrative business travellers market, something Qantas guards closely. But a lack of response from management meant that even incremental improvements at its rivals soon translated to lost market share for AA. And with that, another cash stream dried up.
Despite all of this, American was strong enough to cope with the global financial crisis and the aftermath, while ignoring the cost pressures that its rivals were dealing with directly.
It’s symptomatic of a focus on next quarter’s earnings that all US airlines have been guilty of at some point in time.
Plucker says it’s been recognised in the market that Qantas has had its eyes on the horizon, where the same threats are found; labour, fuel prices and government-owned foreign competitors. The decision to ground the fleet to bring its industrial dispute with unions to a head gained a lot of attention in the US.
If Qantas does ultimately have to go through something similar to its American alliance partner, it won’t be through lack of trying.
By Robert Gottliebsen & Alexander Liddington-Cox
Qantas’ US alliance partner, American Airlines, has now been under Chapter 11 bankruptcy for more than seven months. Qantas shares have fallen dramatically during that time because the market realises that the Australian airline faces similar problems to its US partner – higher costs than its rivals. In today’s tough world, uncompetitive enterprises, whether they be airlines or confectionery makers, go out of business. Middle and some top managers, workers and unions do not always understand this.
Whereas the Australian government hates Qantas for grounding the airline earlier this year, in the US the company is admired for attempting to become competitive without bankruptcy.
American is the last major US airline to enter Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection, underlining the cost pressures of the global aviation market that Qantas Airways has better managed.
“I think Qantas has been a lot smarter, seeking those regional codeshare kinds of alliances that allow them to tailor to the market flow at the time,” Frost & Sullivan aerospace and defence industry manager Wayne Plucker tells Business Spectator.
“That’s something American can’t do, short of parking the airplanes.”
The reason why American is so stuck is that its costs are so out of whack with its rivals. Plucker says that its pilots are paid 10-20 per cent more than other US carriers, while flight attendants collect and extra 5-10 per cent and mechanics also receive more than the industry average.
While Qantas enjoys a profitable domestic arm, American has watched its bread and butter routes between New York, LAX and San Francisco slide into unprofitability thanks principally to labour costs.
“The airline has been using companies like Skywest and Comair to pick up a lot of those regional routes,” says Plucker. “Originally they did it with the idea of taking them back when they returned to profitability, the reality is they’re never going to get them back at this point.”
It means that international alliances are to some extent useless because there’s no point feeding foreign travellers into a network that’s not profitable. This illustrates why Qantas will fight Virgin Australia hard domestically to retain its current position, particularly in the business market. As American shows, if it fails the consequences will be dire. American wages have to come down and workers have to be more flexible if the carrier, once the biggest and best organised US carrier, is to have any meaningful future.
The US Transport Workers Union has been campaigning for an American merger because it believes a deal holds the best chance of preserving some of the excessive wages.
The parent company of American Airlines, AMR Corp, has resisted the move up until this point, but has now acknowledged that a deal could be the best route.
But it’s been clear for a long time that American could be left without a suitable dance partner because Delta Airlines and United Airlines went into bankruptcy protection earlier and formed mergers with Northwest Airlines and Continental Airlines, respectively. Merging with either of these two players would inevitably throw up antitrust issues.
There’s a compelling case for American to link up with US Airways, fifth largest by traffic, which is keen to do a deal and even won the support of airline unions.
But there’s the added problem that, as Qantas has found, airlines can be stubborn beasts to manage. US Airways itself was lifted from of bankruptcy by America West seven years ago, with US Airways Group keeping the name.
However, to this day the staff of both airlines have not been merged. Pilots for America West don’t fly US Airways planes. What would the picture look like with American on the books?
To some extent American’s management lethargy can be traced back to the culture created by the decision that set it on course for national domination in the first place.
Back in the 1960s and early 70s the dominant international carriers were Trans World Airlines and Pan American World Airways. American was in third place, but so far behind that it may has well have been nowhere.
“But perhaps the difference for them is they had a national route structure that the US congress denied to PanAm and TWA, they could only go into the main hub hubs to feed their oversees routes,” says Plucker. “Effectively the US congress killed TWA and PanAm.”
This helped propel American into the number one position heading in to the 21st century. It even merged with TWA in 2001 when the carrier finally ran out of puff.
American enjoyed a big chunk of the lucrative business travellers market, something Qantas guards closely. But a lack of response from management meant that even incremental improvements at its rivals soon translated to lost market share for AA. And with that, another cash stream dried up.
Despite all of this, American was strong enough to cope with the global financial crisis and the aftermath, while ignoring the cost pressures that its rivals were dealing with directly.
It’s symptomatic of a focus on next quarter’s earnings that all US airlines have been guilty of at some point in time.
Plucker says it’s been recognised in the market that Qantas has had its eyes on the horizon, where the same threats are found; labour, fuel prices and government-owned foreign competitors. The decision to ground the fleet to bring its industrial dispute with unions to a head gained a lot of attention in the US.
If Qantas does ultimately have to go through something similar to its American alliance partner, it won’t be through lack of trying.
Last edited by WorthWhat; 12th Jul 2012 at 23:49.
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Woops
If Qantas does ultimately have to go through something similar to its American alliance partner, it won’t be through lack of trying
And AJ maintains the "brand damage" was minimal and he had overwhelming support from the business community for grounding the airline.
How out of touch they all must have been at that time.....
World's best airline named as Qantas plummets in rankings
Qantas has plunged while rival Virgin Australia has surged in the annual awards ranking the world's best airlines.
For the second year in a row, Qatar Airways took out the Airline of the Year award for best airline in the world.
Qantas fell out of the World Airline Awards' top 10 for the first time, dropping to number 15 from number eight last year. The airline's ranking has sunk every year since 2008, when it peaked at number three. This year's drop comes in the wake of last year's industrial dispute that saw CEO Alan Joyce ground the airline's entire fleet in October, affecting about 68,000 passengers worldwide
Virgin Australia, conversely, has surged up the rankings 20 places, up to 12th spot from 32nd last year.
Virgin Australia also took out the awards for best airline and best airline staff service in the Australia-Pacific region.
Skytrax CEO Edward Plaisted said the awards were "something of a victory over the more established legacy carriers that have previously taken the top prizes in these categories”.
Virgin Australia's Mark Hassal said that the new products the airline has introduced over the past 18 months were "making a real difference".
Virgin Australia is locked in a heated battle with Qantas for business class passengers, increasing capacity and bringing lie-flat seating on to domestic flights. The war has resulted in business class fares hitting a 20-year low.
A Qantas spokesman said the airline anticipated its ranking might slip "following the industrial campaign by several unions which disrupted thousands of passengers".
"Our employees have worked hard to rebuild loyalty from our customers and we have recently reached the highest level of customer satisfaction in Australia for over three years," he said.
In better news for the airline, Qantas received three top rankings in this year's awards for best first class lounge (at Sydney Airport), best premium economy class and best premium economy class catering.
Among local budget airlines, Jetstar was named best low-cost carrier for Australia-Pacific.
Still in our region, Air New Zealand had a worse showing than Qantas, dropping to number 17 in the worldwide rankings after reaching 7th last year.
The World Airline Awards are determined by passenger surveys conducted by research firm Skytrax, who surveyed more than 18 million passengers at airports around the world.
The awards were announced yesterday at the Farnborough Air Show in the UK.
Plaisted congratulated Qatar Airways on the airline's second consecutive win, pointing out that the carrier had rapidly climbed the rankings from its number eight spot six years ago.
"The award reflects opinions of passengers around the world, and is based on every customer type across all cabins - be they business or leisure, frequent or first-time flyers," Plaisted said.
Several other awards were announced, including best first-class (Etihad), best business-class (Cathay Pacific), best inflight entertainment (Emirates) and best low cost carrier (AirAsia)
World's best airlines 2012
Previous year's ranking in brackets. Click on the Flight Test links to read our reviews.
1. Qatar Airways (1) (Flight Test)
2. Asiana Airlines (3)
3. Singapore Airlines (2) (Flight Test)
4. Cathay Pacific Airways (4) (Flight Test)
5. ANA All Nippon Airways (11)
6. Etihad Airways (6) (Flight Test)
7. Turkish Airlines (9)
8. Emirates (10) (Flight Test)
9. Thai Airways International (5)
10. Malaysia Airlines (12) (Flight Test)
11. Garuda Indonesia (19)
12. Virgin Australia (32)
13. EVA Air (16)
14. Lufthansa (15)
15. Qantas Airways (8) (Flight Test)
16. Korean Air (24) (Flight Test)
17. Air New Zealand (7) (Flight Test)
18. Swiss Int'l Air Lines (13)
19. Air Canada (21) (Flight Test)
20. Hainan Airlines (23)
Other awards
Best first class - Etihad Airways
Best business class - Cathay Pacific
Best premium economy - Qantas
Best economy class - Singapore Airlines
Best inflight entertainment - Emirates
Best low-cost airline - AirAsia
Best cabin staff - Malaysia Airlines
Best economy class meals - Singapore Airlines
Best first class lounge - Qantas (Sydney Airport)
Last edited by TIMA9X; 13th Jul 2012 at 04:39.
WHAT! No flight test for Jetstar?
These people must be smoking from the same pipe that Alan hands around at the big investor briefings.....
Let me see, losing market share in both domestic and international, yields falling through the floor.
Perhaps it might be time to ask the passengers at the other end of terminal why they left? The arrogance is truly breathtaking.
Who will they blame next year?
we have recently reached the highest level of customer satisfaction in Australia for over three years
Let me see, losing market share in both domestic and international, yields falling through the floor.
Perhaps it might be time to ask the passengers at the other end of terminal why they left? The arrogance is truly breathtaking.
Who will they blame next year?
Last edited by hotnhigh; 13th Jul 2012 at 04:35.
How out of touch they all must have been at that time.....
From ninemsn
Virgin Australia has soared above Qantas in the rankings of the world's best airlines.
The smaller airline climbed 20 spots in the annual Skytrax World Airline Awards, from 32nd to 12th.
It also won best airline in Australia and the Pacific in its first year as a full-service carrier.
Meanwhile, Qantas fell from the top 10 for the first time, plummeting from eighth to 15th in the international rankings.
The airline has been sinking in the ratings since 2008, but the latest slip comes in the wake of last year's industrial dispute that saw CEO Alan Joyce ground the entire fleet.
Qatar Airways took out the Airline of the Year award for the second year in a row.
The rankings are determined by surveys completed by travellers from more than 160 countries.
The World's Top 10 Airlines:
1. Qatar Airways
2. Asiana Airlines
3. Singapore Airlines
4. Cathay Pacific Airways
5. ANA All Nippon Airways
6. Etihad Airways
7. Turkish Airlines
8. Emirates
9. Thai Airways
10. Malaysia Airlines
The smaller airline climbed 20 spots in the annual Skytrax World Airline Awards, from 32nd to 12th.
It also won best airline in Australia and the Pacific in its first year as a full-service carrier.
Meanwhile, Qantas fell from the top 10 for the first time, plummeting from eighth to 15th in the international rankings.
The airline has been sinking in the ratings since 2008, but the latest slip comes in the wake of last year's industrial dispute that saw CEO Alan Joyce ground the entire fleet.
Qatar Airways took out the Airline of the Year award for the second year in a row.
The rankings are determined by surveys completed by travellers from more than 160 countries.
The World's Top 10 Airlines:
1. Qatar Airways
2. Asiana Airlines
3. Singapore Airlines
4. Cathay Pacific Airways
5. ANA All Nippon Airways
6. Etihad Airways
7. Turkish Airlines
8. Emirates
9. Thai Airways
10. Malaysia Airlines
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This will surely set the cat amongst the pigeons.
Qantas motion moved at Labor conference
From AAP
Qantas would be prevented from exploiting overseas workers at its subsidiary Jetstar under a motion being moved by the Transport Workers Union (TWU) at the NSW Labor conference.
Under the Qantas Sale Act of 1992, the airline is required to have its headquarters in Australia and be majority Australian-owned.
But unions believe Qantas could get around the act by employing more maintenance workers in Asia at its budget carrier Jetstar and other future offshoots.
TWU national secretary Tony Sheldon, a delegate to the NSW Labor conference, is moving a motion on Sunday afternoon, which would call on the act to include Jetstar and any other Qantas subsidiary.
"The proposed legislation would include the entire Qantas group and where it's invested its money," Mr Sheldon told AAP outside Sydney Town Hall.
"Anyone flying in our air space, Qantas or others, should be turning around and paying Australian wages and conditions and providing where it's appropriate Australian jobs." Mr Sheldon said Qantas needed to be stopped from exploiting workers in Asia.
"We've seen Qantas bring in workers from Thailand and Singapore at $400 a month," he said.
"That is not an appropriate way for an Australian company to operate, let alone any other company."
The left-wing Australian Services Union is understood to be supporting the motion from the right-wing TWU.
A Qantas spokesman said the company rejected Mr Sheldon's claims and that Jetstar paid its employees in Singapore and Thailand more than five times the $400-a-month the union had claimed.
"The Qantas Group, including Jetstar, employs more than 30,000 people in Australia and as a global airline group we also employ people throughout the world," the spokesman said.
"Jetstar operates separate airlines in a number of countries including Singapore, Japan and Vietnam. Just like the airlines we compete against in those countries, Jetstar employs local people on local terms and conditions.
"Jetstar pays these employees significantly more than the average wages in those countries."
Qantas motion moved at Labor conference
From AAP
Qantas would be prevented from exploiting overseas workers at its subsidiary Jetstar under a motion being moved by the Transport Workers Union (TWU) at the NSW Labor conference.
Under the Qantas Sale Act of 1992, the airline is required to have its headquarters in Australia and be majority Australian-owned.
But unions believe Qantas could get around the act by employing more maintenance workers in Asia at its budget carrier Jetstar and other future offshoots.
TWU national secretary Tony Sheldon, a delegate to the NSW Labor conference, is moving a motion on Sunday afternoon, which would call on the act to include Jetstar and any other Qantas subsidiary.
"The proposed legislation would include the entire Qantas group and where it's invested its money," Mr Sheldon told AAP outside Sydney Town Hall.
"Anyone flying in our air space, Qantas or others, should be turning around and paying Australian wages and conditions and providing where it's appropriate Australian jobs." Mr Sheldon said Qantas needed to be stopped from exploiting workers in Asia.
"We've seen Qantas bring in workers from Thailand and Singapore at $400 a month," he said.
"That is not an appropriate way for an Australian company to operate, let alone any other company."
The left-wing Australian Services Union is understood to be supporting the motion from the right-wing TWU.
A Qantas spokesman said the company rejected Mr Sheldon's claims and that Jetstar paid its employees in Singapore and Thailand more than five times the $400-a-month the union had claimed.
"The Qantas Group, including Jetstar, employs more than 30,000 people in Australia and as a global airline group we also employ people throughout the world," the spokesman said.
"Jetstar operates separate airlines in a number of countries including Singapore, Japan and Vietnam. Just like the airlines we compete against in those countries, Jetstar employs local people on local terms and conditions.
"Jetstar pays these employees significantly more than the average wages in those countries."
Last edited by struggling; 16th Jul 2012 at 02:07.
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Not a fan of unions but this is long overdue. The politicians have shown no fortitude to deal with these deceptions and shams by Qantas management which were there for all to see.
Remember it is the behaviour of rogue employers like Qantas that give the unions fertile grounds. If there were no grounds, there would be no cause for them to pursue.
Remember it is the behaviour of rogue employers like Qantas that give the unions fertile grounds. If there were no grounds, there would be no cause for them to pursue.
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TWU national secretary Tony Sheldon, a delegate to the NSW Labor conference, is moving a motion on Sunday afternoon, which would call on the act to include Jetstar and any other Qantas subsidiary.
Not a fan of unions but this is long overdue. The politicians have shown no fortitude to deal with these deceptions and shams by Qantas management which were there for all to see.
. my thoughts only. It sickens me when I think of all the 744 guys (etc) who have been forced to move on...... all that expertise lost... because the management wrecking crew, AJ & Co wanted to prop up their baby J* at the expense of these jobs... After spending the last couple of months in Asia I can report that there is an acute pilot shortage in SE Asia and I believe we will see this begin to affect Australia as the Asian major carriers will snap up pilots displaced by the Qantas management decisions over the past couple of years. Brand Jetstar in Asia is not as big as AJ and Co keeps telling us, that is for sure... the Qantas brand still has the power, its image gradually diminished every day AJ and his dysfunctional team are at the helm..
This video lead to my original youtube channel to be banned by Qantas, they hate the truth... Special thanks to our ABC for helping out to get it re posted, kudos to them, many thanks
Captain Steven Anderson's words says it all......
Last edited by TIMA9X; 16th Jul 2012 at 07:23.