QANTAS - WHERE TO NOW?
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: I prefer to remain north of a direct line BNE-ADL
Age: 48
Posts: 1,286
Likes: 0
Received 33 Likes
on
10 Posts
I assume you think that Qantas could be turned round, with it's current cost base and industrial agreements intact, if only the CEO had 'vision'?
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Formerly Australia
Age: 61
Posts: 68
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
AoA are you really suggesting the only cost base problem is middle managers?
Is the cost base of the incumbent crews and their industrial practices not a drain on the airline as well?
Is the cost base of the incumbent crews and their industrial practices not a drain on the airline as well?
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: I prefer to remain north of a direct line BNE-ADL
Age: 48
Posts: 1,286
Likes: 0
Received 33 Likes
on
10 Posts
ATR's are on around 49% burn of Q400's for very similar load. The evidence will be borne out over time, what evidence do you need.. just look at the specs of both aircraft.
No that is why I mentioned the gravy train, the incumbent awards are complicated and expensive, lets face it the long haul award is dying a slow death, but I still suspect the vast majority of waste is in the admin side.
Is the cost base of the incumbent crews and their industrial practices not a drain on the airline as well?
Moderator
It is a little difficult to NOT have another Qantas thread in the down under area of PPRuNe.
Or should Qantas talk be in the African area, or the helicopter zone??
Or should Qantas talk be in the African area, or the helicopter zone??
We know the problems at Qantas; we believe you; we don't need to be repetitiously reminded in every post, every Qantas thread! Please consider the Mods - we have to read all that cr@p!
Related threads will continue to be merged - unless Mod patience runs out then the superfluous and duplicated threads will be closed.
ATR's are on around 49% burn of Q400's for very similar load. The evidence will be borne out over time, what evidence do you need.. just look at the specs of both aircraft.
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: London-Thailand-Australia
Age: 15
Posts: 1,057
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
QANTAS - WHERE TO NOW?
It is important and inevitable there will be Qantas related threads in Dunnunda
May I suggest, the name of this thread QANTAS - WHERE TO NOW? would save a lot of thread duplications.... covers a lot of issues in just four words... and probably gives War & Peace a run for page numbers..
Great header
Thanks gp
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Sector 7G
Posts: 125
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices. It is impossible indeed to prevent such meetings, by any law which either could be executed, or would be consistent with liberty or justice. But though the law cannot hinder people of the same trade from sometimes assembling together, it ought to do nothing to facilitate such assemblies; much less to render them necessary.
--
Adam Smith, The Wealth of Nations, 1776
--
Adam Smith, The Wealth of Nations, 1776
Qantas chiefs chat: who gets the tab?
Mark Hawthorne and Eli Greenblat
March 30, 2012 - 12:06PM
Cheque please ... Qantas boss meets with his predecessor Geoff Dixon in Sydney. Photo: James Brickwood
Qantas chief Alan Joyce and his predecessor, former CEO Geoff Dixon, have clocked up some $50 million in pay between them. So which of them picks up the drinks tab?
In exclusive pictures that will hardly warm the hearts of long-term Qantas shareholders - or the airline's 30,000 rank-and-file staff - the two were photographed last night in deep conversation that lasted for three hours.
Qantas CEOs' pay: who earned what
One can only imagine what they were talking about last night, as they enjoyed a beer and a couple of glasses of wine at the bar of the Park Hyatt Hotel at The Rocks in Sydney.
It's not the cheapest place in town to buy a drink - a beer alone tops $10 - but that should hardly trouble the pair.
According to the company's annual reports, Dixon and Joyce have earned $50.7 million in pay, bonuses and shares from running the nation's national carrier since 2002.
Indeed, during his tenure at Qantas, Dixon could lay claim to being the highest paid airline executive in the world.
In 2008 he pocketed $10.7 million before he departed Qantas - for just five months of work.
Ten years ago, Qantas shares were trading at almost $4.40 apiece. They peaked in 2007 at $6.05, amid the Dixon-led private equity play for the carrier. Today the shares trade at a much more humble $1.81 per share.
One thing is for sure - despite their self-professed leanings to the left side of social issues, a love of unions is unlikely to have been on the agenda.
Joyce has followed his predecessor's course of battling the unions that represent the airline's employees.
In 2003, Dixon remarked: "Whenever I refer to the possibility that Qantas may need to relocate work offshore, I am greeted with shock. But that is the reality of the aviation industry today. [Although] we need to be successful in our efforts to secure greater efficiency and cost reductions, we still have to pursue actions in order to remain competitive."
In his tussle with the unions over the past year, such a line could have come straight from the Joyce script.
Of course, neither man has made a secret of their regular meetings.
Last year Dixon admitted they met every few weeks and just this week Joyce flagged plans to catch up with the old boss.
We've put in the call to Qantas to ask which of the two picked up the bill. We'll keep you posted.
[email protected]
Follow Mark Hawthorne on Twitter
Read more: Qantas chiefs chat: who gets the tab?
Mark Hawthorne and Eli Greenblat
March 30, 2012 - 12:06PM
Cheque please ... Qantas boss meets with his predecessor Geoff Dixon in Sydney. Photo: James Brickwood
Qantas chief Alan Joyce and his predecessor, former CEO Geoff Dixon, have clocked up some $50 million in pay between them. So which of them picks up the drinks tab?
In exclusive pictures that will hardly warm the hearts of long-term Qantas shareholders - or the airline's 30,000 rank-and-file staff - the two were photographed last night in deep conversation that lasted for three hours.
Qantas CEOs' pay: who earned what
One can only imagine what they were talking about last night, as they enjoyed a beer and a couple of glasses of wine at the bar of the Park Hyatt Hotel at The Rocks in Sydney.
It's not the cheapest place in town to buy a drink - a beer alone tops $10 - but that should hardly trouble the pair.
According to the company's annual reports, Dixon and Joyce have earned $50.7 million in pay, bonuses and shares from running the nation's national carrier since 2002.
Indeed, during his tenure at Qantas, Dixon could lay claim to being the highest paid airline executive in the world.
In 2008 he pocketed $10.7 million before he departed Qantas - for just five months of work.
Ten years ago, Qantas shares were trading at almost $4.40 apiece. They peaked in 2007 at $6.05, amid the Dixon-led private equity play for the carrier. Today the shares trade at a much more humble $1.81 per share.
One thing is for sure - despite their self-professed leanings to the left side of social issues, a love of unions is unlikely to have been on the agenda.
Joyce has followed his predecessor's course of battling the unions that represent the airline's employees.
In 2003, Dixon remarked: "Whenever I refer to the possibility that Qantas may need to relocate work offshore, I am greeted with shock. But that is the reality of the aviation industry today. [Although] we need to be successful in our efforts to secure greater efficiency and cost reductions, we still have to pursue actions in order to remain competitive."
In his tussle with the unions over the past year, such a line could have come straight from the Joyce script.
Of course, neither man has made a secret of their regular meetings.
Last year Dixon admitted they met every few weeks and just this week Joyce flagged plans to catch up with the old boss.
We've put in the call to Qantas to ask which of the two picked up the bill. We'll keep you posted.
[email protected]
Follow Mark Hawthorne on Twitter
Read more: Qantas chiefs chat: who gets the tab?
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Mount Rushmore
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Who Picks Up the Tab?
Neither one of them.
Qantas picks up the tab.Claimed as a business meeting
Dixon looks a little worse for wear.Photos must have been taken toward the end of their sojourn.
Qantas picks up the tab.Claimed as a business meeting
Dixon looks a little worse for wear.Photos must have been taken toward the end of their sojourn.
They were most probably talking about raising money for charity, anything else would leave open the possibility of transgrssing the ASX continuous disclosure rules, not to mention all sorts of laws wouldn't it?
I refuse to go until I get a package. I'll spend the time until that occurs doing as little as I'm legally allowed to.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Mount Olympus
Posts: 105
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You might like to read this but it's true. I ask: how many people do you know who have left Qantas of their own volition, as opposed to VR or 'the package'?
More than you think Ken.The place is toxic.Many Exco stay because its a gravy train and they are unlikely to obtain employment elsewhere.Management have set the benchmark.Employees aspire to that benchmark.
More than you think Ken.The place is toxic.Many Exco stay because its a gravy train and they are unlikely to obtain employment elsewhere.Management have set the benchmark.Employees aspire to that benchmark.
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: south pacific vagrant
Posts: 1,334
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I refuse to go until I get a package. I'll spend the time until that occurs doing as little as I'm legally allowed to.
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Downunder
Age: 74
Posts: 257
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Ken Borough
This is major cultural problem at Qantas in that very, very few either resign or retire........waiting for the Company to pay them to go.......how many people do you know who have left Qantas of their own volition, as opposed to VR or 'the package'?
Here are a few options, feel free to tick the one you feel is most correct !
[ ] Incompetent management frequently get rid of experienced and valuable staff, only a year or two later to find they have cut too deep
[ ] Sadistic management like firing and hiring staff just for fun
[ ] Inexperienced management doesn't really know how many people it takes to run an airline
[ ] Frequently recycled managers have no idea of their predecessors plan or vision for the departments
[ ] Amateur management believe hucksters telling them that contracting / outsourcing jobs will be cheaper, only to soon find out they were conned
[ ] All of the above
ST
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: London-Thailand-Australia
Age: 15
Posts: 1,057
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No wonder people get upset
Qantas chief Alan Joyce and his predecessor, former CEO Geoff Dixon, have clocked up some $50 million in pay between them.
This is the major cultural problem at Qantas
QANTAS - WHERE TO NOW?
It hasn't changed much since Dixon took the controls... it's all about them and what goes in their wallets, in my view.. probably why stories like the smh one above keep popping up on a more regular basis these days...
.
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Sydney
Age: 60
Posts: 1,542
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ken,
I am a long term employee [and share owner - who bought more shares than just employee bonuses]
Up until fairly recently I was a loyal employee.
After the last few years of management crap I am now with Directanywhere!
I will get what I can, while I can!
If the board an CEO change [both physically and in direction] then I will go the extra yards again - but not with these idiots.
I am a long term employee [and share owner - who bought more shares than just employee bonuses]
Up until fairly recently I was a loyal employee.
After the last few years of management crap I am now with Directanywhere!
I will get what I can, while I can!
If the board an CEO change [both physically and in direction] then I will go the extra yards again - but not with these idiots.
Ken's on my blocked list (in fact he is my blocked list) but I assume he was talking about me.
Against my better judgement Ken...
The day I joined QANTAS was one of the happiest of my life, second only to a couple of better ones. I used to go the extra yard, answer the phone on my day off, go in when they were short of crew, volunteer for unpaid duties. You name it, I'd do it, because I loved the place and the job.
So what is the result of all that? I am now well and truly surplus and staring down the barrel of redundancy. I plan to hang around as long as I can, get a package if and when I can, and no longer feel the motivation to do any more than I am paid to do.
That's it.
Against my better judgement Ken...
The day I joined QANTAS was one of the happiest of my life, second only to a couple of better ones. I used to go the extra yard, answer the phone on my day off, go in when they were short of crew, volunteer for unpaid duties. You name it, I'd do it, because I loved the place and the job.
So what is the result of all that? I am now well and truly surplus and staring down the barrel of redundancy. I plan to hang around as long as I can, get a package if and when I can, and no longer feel the motivation to do any more than I am paid to do.
That's it.
Ken, in the last 35 years not a single pilot has been offered a redundancy package from Qantas. Not one [unless there has been a private tap on the shoulder for someone who 'they' wanted to get rid of who was made a very quiet one off offer that no one knows about].
In the last 35 years, I'm guessing, about 800 pilots have retired or resigned. Not one package, Ken. The current crop leaving are not getting any redundancy packages either. They are either resigning outright, with heavy hearts for the most part, or taking 'leave of absence without pay' usually for three years but knowing deep down that there is unlikely anything to come back to.
I'm not speaking for other classifications but this is the PPRuNe, after all.
At least ask a management mate for the truth before you make such wild and untrue allegations.
In the last 35 years, I'm guessing, about 800 pilots have retired or resigned. Not one package, Ken. The current crop leaving are not getting any redundancy packages either. They are either resigning outright, with heavy hearts for the most part, or taking 'leave of absence without pay' usually for three years but knowing deep down that there is unlikely anything to come back to.
I'm not speaking for other classifications but this is the PPRuNe, after all.
At least ask a management mate for the truth before you make such wild and untrue allegations.
