Qantas to reduce heavy maintenance labour by 60%

[porch monkey]

Perhaps you should read the whole investigation and report before you start slinging **** bugalugs. Engineer or no, made no difference.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Of all QF aircraft that arrive (on chocks) how many require the attention of a LAME?

About 20%. You need to establish which 20% first though and your chances of finding the problems on ground rapidly reduce when Engineers aren't present.

[VBPCGUY]

So my eyes are not as good as a LAME's eyes?

[AWB_Clerk]

So my eyes are not as good as a LAME's eyes?

I suspect it's got less to do with visual acuity and more to do with how much experience and knowledge held in your brain that interprets what your eyes see.

AWBC

[VBPCGUY]

Well I will be performing the receipt and dispatch function this afternoon..................I will inform you of the outcome

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

So my eyes are not as good as a LAME's eyes?

I don't even know what you are. The checks have nothing to do with ones eyes, it's about their knowledge.

[600ft-lb]

PC is Pit Crew

He's a rampy. Full of knowledge too, or something.

[Jethro Gibbs]

No Qantas staff going at Avalon all going will be Forstaff just what they need more managers.

[going postal]

Maybe once Vbpcguy does his type course he'll understand what we are getting at. But I wouldn't hold my breath.

[IFOT]

I have witnessed many rampys doing walk arounds. Firstly I have no idea why on earth they assume they should be doing one.
Secondly, any rampy arrogant enough to undermine the procedures and processes already in use have no place working airside.
I have also witnessed rampys slamming a belt loader into the side of an aircraft's fuselage. They went and got the chief rampy who inspected the aircraft and gave a thumbs up to his workmates. At no time did they inform the crew or the engineers. It wasn't untill my colleague informed the engineers that the aircraft was inspected by a qualified engineer.
Arrogant rampys need to know their place and this is another example why engineers should be present on tarmac.

[AWB_Clerk]

VBPCGUY Well I will be performing the receipt and dispatch function this afternoon..................I will inform you of the outcome

Any numpty can plug a David Clark into an aircraft and feel special because he/she has memorized a sequence of instructions to say to the pilot upstairs in a deep serious tone of voice.

It takes quite a bit more for someone to know what they are doing when the poo minces through the fan and something goes wrong or the pilot wants to know something when faced with a problem that isn't covered in your sheet of memorized instructions.

AWBC

[airsupport]

So my eyes are not as good as a LAME's eyes?

This has absolutely nothing to do with it.

It is about training and experience.

I was a fully Licenced LAME for some 40 years, Licenced Airframes and Engines on many Aircraft from F27s and Viscounts, DC9s, B727s, B737s, MD80s through to B767s and A300 and A310s, and have done quite a few preflights on all of those types.

However I was never Licenced on B747s for example, so there is NO WAY despite my decades of training and experience as a LAME that I would ever pretend that I could preflight a B747 properly, yet someone with little or no training thinks they can.

[Bagus]

I heard Forstaff redundancy is not as good as qantas,and under constant review,why would u work for them,I would not one to get transfer there ,

[UPPERLOBE]

Sort of on topic...

What training is given to those PC people?

I'm old school but it would seem to me that plenty can go wrong during start & shutdown sequences, hung & wet starts or tailpipe fires to name a few hiccups.

Do these people carry out manual starts? get em up to open #4 pylon valve on a 747, reckon you wouldn't hear a deep voice then, lol.

[SpannerTwister]

Originally Posted by airsupport

I was a fully Licenced LAME for some 40 years, Licenced Airframes and Engines on many Aircraft from F27s and Viscounts, DC9s, B727s, B737s, MD80s through to B767s and A300 and A310s, and have done quite a few preflights on all of those types.

However I was never Licenced on B747s for example, so there is NO WAY despite my decades of training and experience as a LAME that I would ever pretend that I could preflight a B747 properly, yet someone with little or no training thinks they can.

Are there my friend, is the nub of the problem

With those decades of experience we've learnt not only what we can do, but what we cannot do.

Ironically I'd feel perfectly safe flying in the 747 that you pre-flighted, that you wouldn't pre-flight, precisely because you know what you do not know.

Anyone who thinks they have a handle on aircraft maintenance after doing a "tick-and-flick" course is deluding only themselves.

Talk to me when you've done a four-year apprenticeship, got a licence and then five years experience as a LAME under your belt.

FFS, trades such as motor mechanic, plumber, house painter or hairdresser are 3 - 4 year apprentiships (or equivalent), how does the media, CASA, Qantas Management or anyone with half a brain think that aircraft maintenance is a two-week "tick-and-flick" course ?

ST

[Tidbinbilla]

Okay gents. We've drifted far enough off topic.

Qantas reducing HM labour by 60% is the topic.

[QF94]

[quoteFFS, trades such as motor mechanic, plumber, house painter or hairdresser are 3 - 4 year apprentiships (or equivalent), how does the media, CASA, Qantas Management or anyone with half a brain think that aircraft maintenance is a two-week "tick-and-flick" course ?] [/quote]

According to our lovable AJ, aircraft don't require as much maintenance as they once did. Painting a house or doing hair has not changed over the centuries. That's why a two week tick'n'flick course is now appropriate. Aircraft are being brought into line with new car maintenence.

[airsupport]

Okay gents. We've drifted far enough off topic.

Qantas reducing HM labour by 60% is the topic.

Sorry, I was just trying to clarify something for someone who does not seem to understand the duties etc of an LAME.

On topic though, that may be part of the problem too, I wish I had a dollar for every time over those 40 years that while doing a routine preflight I found something that while NOT needing immediate action was something that needed further investigation later, and these items were referrred through the system for the next check or for investigation/action during heavy maintenance.

Now with LAMEs not doing regular preflights, sometimes not even attending an Aircraft if there are no reported problems and the people doing these turnrounds not being very trained and experienced, maybe this is one reason Qantas CAN reduce HM costs by 60%, because they are not aware of 60% or more of the impending problems.

[aveng]

Unfortunately VBPCGUY is just the sort of 'can do' numpty that will be issued with an A licence.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

How's this for a bunch of Wally's. We meet with them yesterday and say, ok so you have announced that 227 positions will be available in Bne for people to transfer to. How many of them will be LAME positions? IR replied by saying that they don't even know anything about 227 (the Bne blokes were told this by the EGM of Engineering).

So we said to IR, ok maybe you aren't sure. We turn to the head of Qantas Heavy Maintenance and say to him. "You've made this decision, how many LAMEs will you need in Bne to cater for the 738 aircraft you will maintain there?". Answer -

We're not sure yet.

VBPC guy. Would you consider a job running Qantas Engineering? I think you may be more qualified, I suspect you are more capable and you certainly have the right attitude to deal with those pesky unions.