Qantas to reduce heavy maintenance labour by 60%

[Bagus]

If qantas wants to get rid of engineers,they at least should provide training on other aircraft types so that if these guys want to apply jobs in jetstar or virgin or even wants to get a job in emirates they would be happy to leave.i hope alaea would pressure the government and qantas to provide training on other aircraft types,as there are guys coming to Australia on 457 visa because they got a380 and 330 and getting jobs here.

[QF94]

@Bagus

If qantas wants to get rid of engineers,they at least should provide training on other aircraft types so that if these guys want to apply jobs in jetstar or virgin or even wants to get a job in emirates they would be happy to leave.i hope alaea would pressure the government and qantas to provide training on other aircraft types,as there are guys coming to Australia on 457 visa because they got a380 and 330 and getting jobs here.

You're dreaming. QANTAS is hard-pressed to train anyone they want to keep, let alone train people that they're going to get rid of. Why would they spend money on those they want to get rid of and give the other carriers or organisations a free goal?

All in all, QANTAS of late has been loathe to train anyone, except out of sheer necessity. QANTAS have a heap of A340 and 777 trained guys that used to certify customer aircraft once upon a time. There is no need to train anyone else.

[genxfrog]

Wednesday 23rd is the date scheduled for the announcement now......that is until those incompetent fools postpone it again.

[Cargo744]

Put your faith in Steve and the Alea! He is the messiah

[empire4]

Unions are destroying Australian businesses. No offense Steve, but seriously the it is all going to collapse.

[Jet-A-One]

The sooner we get rid of all those bloody workers by outsourcing all their work overseas or replacing them with casuals on 457 visas the better hey empire4.

I'm sure there'll be plenty of management jobs for your kids too mate.

Crawl back under your rock.

[Arnold E]

Unions are destroying Australian businesses.

Name 5 that have been destroyed by unions and explain how they did it. If you cant, or, wont do that, then you are just engaging in good old union bashing.

[ampclamp]

I'd bet more businesses have been stripped/ sent broke/ dismantled/ run down by brainless / selfish/ inept / corrupt business leaders than unions. Or a combo of said characteristics. Unions have caused trouble in the past but to suggest it is still a big problem is ridiculous.

[tgbgtgb]

It has been brought up in some sense. Qantas have continually told us a 380 hangar is out of the question because it would cost $105m for one bay and $175m for two.

We got quotes to show they would be $27m and $33m respectively built at Avalon. I don't know but maybe Linfox have said they will build them and give Qf free leasing for 10 years.

Was that just a building and doors for that price? That seems rather cheap for a shed, docking, gear pits etc. I would suggest the qantas quote included those plus GSE, tooling, phones, computers and most of the stuff required to make a major maintenance check happen.

[airsupport]

I'd bet more businesses have been stripped/ sent broke/ dismantled/ run down by brainless / selfish/ inept / corrupt business leaders than unions. Or a combo of said characteristics. Unions have caused trouble in the past but to suggest it is still a big problem is ridiculous.

Fairly safe bet that, especially in Aviation, Ansett and Southern Cross perfect examples.

[Jethro Gibbs]

We got quotes to show they would be $27m and $33m respectively built at
Avalon. I don't know but maybe Linfox have said they will build them and give Qf
free leasing for 10 years.

Heard Lindsay Fox talking about his business Australia wide and Asia on Melbourne radio on Friday and there is no way he will be funding that let alone free leasing it .
Aint going to happen.

[empire4]

Jet-A-one, If you have read any of my previous posts you would know I'm a big advocate of eliminating 457 visas and outsourcing in general. It will be even more important now that QF will put about 600 people in our industry out of a job.

I have been very critical in the past about the ALAEA not pursuing the Government to remove or not allow foreign Engineers here. I have been told this is too hard and they can not control the skills shortage list.

It disturbs me that a place like JHAS will pay European people to relocate, pay the license conversion and have them not signing for months rather than train a local. Unfortunately this seems to be on the lower side of any unions priorities.

See for yourself, page 3 and has been there for years. http://www.deewr.gov.au/Employment/LMI/SkillShortages/Documents/SSL_AUS.pdf

Now whilst I disagree with what QF are doing, you have to step outside and see that old legacy airline work practices such as 2 man push backs (some stations), Radio LAME's and Avionic LAME's sitting in the crew room etc are not efficient. You are after all competing with airlines such as Singapore and Emirates. I do agree with such things as having a LAME at every A/C transit. Safety cannot be compromised and this is something that Joyce doesn't get.

The unions objective is to get you better T&C's......Right? So, If you get more money and the company wants you to do more, does this mean those T&C's have improved? Maybe not. It definitely means nothing but extra cost for the company if QF have old, outdated and inefficient practices in everyday operations which are not eliminated. Australia's non-skilled work force is far too over paid, which then in turn drives prices up, skilled wages up and hurts local business. Most Australian Unions represent non-skilled to low skilled workers. How do these things benefit a company trying to make money?

If you are off the belief that the union is looking after YOUR best interests, then you are greatly misguided and I hope you see the light soon. The very fact that the ALAEA represents AME's and other tradies at AVALON is enough for you to work this out. Massive conflict in interest.

[Bagus]

The flying public thinks that qantas outsource only 10% maintenance jobs offshore ,they don't realize that jetstar is part of qantas group and they outsource 90% offshore,what a con job created by Joyce.

[Jet-A-One]

empire4, I have read some of your posts and I agree with a lot (certainly not ALL) of what you say. In fact I am quite surprised in your opinion of the ALAEA. (your opinion of other unions I couldn't give a sh1t about)

Let me assure you I have absolute faith in those that run the ALAEA, as do all members I know. There are plenty of reasons we have the coverage we do across our profession Australia wide.

You are intitled to your opinion but I think it is you that is "misguided" mate.

[600ft-lb]

Qantas will, in 5 years time, outsource

All A380 heavy maintenance
All B787 heavy maintenance
All B737 OR A330 heavy maintenance
All engine overhaul
All component overhaul

Jetstar will outsource most of its A320 heavy maintenance if the status quo remains, all of it if they have their way.

There will be a token force somewhere in MEL/AVV or BNE.

The Sydney aircraft maintenance section, as per the SACL plans will be relocated, the current 13 or so hangar bays, will be torn down and relocated apparently. But a 2 bay A380 hangar costs over $100 million apparently. I can't imagine them wanting to spend $300-400+ million on new hangar facilities to comply with the following;

1.3 Location of Principal Operational Centre
Of the facilities, taken in aggregate, which are used by Qantas in the provision of scheduled
international air transport services (for example, facilities for the maintenance and housing of Aircraft,
catering, marketing, flight operations, training and administration), the facilities located in Australia,
when compared with those located in any other country, must represent the principal centre of
operations of Qantas. [Qantas Sale Act s.7(1)(h)]

So it seems to me they have found a legal argument to circumvent the sale act, which is probably the last thing that needs to be tested in a court of law. Perhaps it depends on how the wording is interpreted. Is it the services individually or the services as a whole.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Qantas will, in 5 years time, outsource

All A380 heavy maintenance
All B787 heavy maintenance
All B737 OR A330 heavy maintenance
All engine overhaul
All component overhaul

Jetstar will outsource most of its A320 heavy maintenance if the status quo remains, all of it if they have their way.

There will be a token force somewhere in MEL/AVV or BNE.

Qantas will also repeat over and over that - we carry out over 90% of our maintenance onshore. It will be true because the Aviation expert will repeat several times on Sunrise.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

I have been very critical in the past about the ALAEA not pursuing the Government to remove or not allow foreign Engineers here. I have been told this is too hard and they can not control the skills shortage list.

I don't blame you for being angry about this, I am too. It's not the ALAEA's fault though that the Liberal Government legislated 457 options and then put aircraft maintenance workers on the list. We've written and complained about it but it's not our decision to have our profession removed from the list. Maybe they will consider it again if there are people looking for jobs by the end of this week.

[Arnold E]

Maybe they will consider it again if there are people looking for jobs by the end of this week.

There are already people looking for jobs and they cant get them because the market is flooded with guys bailing out of QANTAS....... Fact

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Now whilst I disagree with what QF are doing, you have to step outside and see that old legacy airline work practices such as 2 man push backs (some stations), Radio LAME's and Avionic LAME's sitting in the crew room etc are not efficient. You are after all competing with airlines such as Singapore and Emirates. I do agree with such things as having a LAME at every A/C transit. Safety cannot be compromised and this is something that Joyce doesn't get.

Well before any PIA took place during the dispute of last year the ALAEA offered Qantas pretty much what you suggested here. We offered, no transit check, no LAME on departure but we demanded there be one for each arrival so we could fix the broken ones. Qantas said no because they want everything and more. Don't think that the ALAEA incapable of being co-operative or progressive.

Representing AMEs and LAMEs together is not a conflict of interest. Both groups have long sought one representing body. AMEs currently sit in big unions and the aviation sectors are about 1% of the membership of that union. What say do you think they get and how much do you think their leaders know about our industry?

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Was that just a building and doors for that price? That seems rather cheap for a shed, docking, gear pits etc. I would suggest the qantas quote included those plus GSE, tooling, phones, computers and most of the stuff required to make a major maintenance check happen.

I'd post the quote up here if I had more time to work out how. The price for a bare hangar with door, concrete, fire system, Jacking points, tail dock, design etc... is $16,129,700.

Extra $10,000,000 US also gets Fuse dock, wing dock, engine docks, hydro jacks, engine hoists, 4 x 90kva power units and removeable engine stands.

Quote does not include computers or phones. They may cost an extra $50k but knowing Qantas they would shop around and find them for $6m.