Qantas Exodus II
I think Qantas should be worried about the LAME's going to EK too. Dad and 8 other QF guys have interviews over in Dubai soon. All of these guys have A330, 744 (LAME) licences and some have a380 licences too. (Quite expensive for QF considering some of these guys only have been on the a380 for such a short time).
I can tell you we know one 747 FO (i dont think on LWOP) who has gone over there (he doesnt plan to come back).
I can tell you we know one 747 FO (i dont think on LWOP) who has gone over there (he doesnt plan to come back).
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As usual it will all be too late when they realise that they have let too many go and they find themselves short in categories and/or type. It is truly amazing how inept this lot are....oh and by the way this has already begun AND still they continue approving LWOP and offering jetstar slots.... I just don't get it???
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Applications to EK from QF Pilots have not either decreased nor increased in the past 6 months......
I think many experienced Qantas wide body Captains will be heading to EK once the DEC door is opened again. Apparently early next year is the date.
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No problem...case of Tiger beer(best in the world). EK have done it before and will do it again due to their shortage of quality candidates.
I have heard from good sources many EK F/Os are not coming up to scratch.
They will have a lot of experience to pick from from the Qantas ranks.
Some of the Qantas Captains got 747 commands in less than 6 years in the eighties and have been in command ever since.
Good sources are indicating Captains have been contacted.
I have heard from good sources many EK F/Os are not coming up to scratch.
They will have a lot of experience to pick from from the Qantas ranks.
Some of the Qantas Captains got 747 commands in less than 6 years in the eighties and have been in command ever since.
Good sources are indicating Captains have been contacted.
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I could only see QF captains going in droves if EK were to offer DEC and overseas basings, i.e. keep their commands and live at home. I doubt that EK will ever agree to both. So my money is on Tinee.
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You're on. Make mine Crownies.
Of course EK have done it before and they may do it again. I doubt it will happen again soon. Here's why, they need hundreds of guys over the next few years. What's the question on all their applicant's lips? "Are you going to hire DECs?" The answer has been no- See Silver Sleuth's post #5. If they go back on that statement, it will solve short-term problems but cause serious long-term issues. The current issues of finding enough qualified F/Os will be multiplied tenfold.
See you back here in March to settle up the debt.
Of course EK have done it before and they may do it again. I doubt it will happen again soon. Here's why, they need hundreds of guys over the next few years. What's the question on all their applicant's lips? "Are you going to hire DECs?" The answer has been no- See Silver Sleuth's post #5. If they go back on that statement, it will solve short-term problems but cause serious long-term issues. The current issues of finding enough qualified F/Os will be multiplied tenfold.
See you back here in March to settle up the debt.
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TineeTim said:
Agree 100%.
Actually I will amend that to 75% agree! The guys unfortunately may have no other choice but to explore all other options if Mr Joyce gets his way.
If they go back on that statement, it will solve short-term problems but cause serious long-term issues. The current issues of finding enough qualified F/Os will be multiplied tenfold.
Actually I will amend that to 75% agree! The guys unfortunately may have no other choice but to explore all other options if Mr Joyce gets his way.
Last edited by OnceBitten; 18th Nov 2011 at 07:43.
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Bad times in EK!
STAY AWAY! DO NOT COME!! EK is not an option!
I made the mistake of leaving QF and joining EK, and after 2 years it is the worse decision I ever made. The EK recruitment wagon is out on roadshows around the world spinning how EK is a great and wonderful option and telling everyone how excellent it is.
Please look through it and see the real truth.
These are the facts on some of the problems in EK:
1) Rostering - The normal computerized system which allocates your roster is now being done manually as major pilot shortages do not allow for the program to complete the process. This is resulting in significant numbers of pilots on top bids getting none of their flights. Instead you are being given the opposite - high amount of night turnarounds or 5-7 day trips away from home.
2) Annual Leave - There is NO annual leave available for the next 4 months. There are a very large number of pilots who still have leave to take - above the 15 days that can be rolled over. Ops and Fleet have said that all leave will need to be rolled over to next year as there are no days available for forced leave either. Warnings are being heard from rostering and the planners about next years leave being tougher to get, which means the days rolled over will most likely not be honored. Don't forget that if you join EK you are banned from taking leave for the first 6 months!
3) Training - Poor standardization, poor levels of trainers being attracted due to very few applications to join the training department. When asked about this situation Capt AS suggested crews should return to their old companies if they don't like it! This is being combined with current trainers being heavily over worked resulting in many long term and respected trainers resigning. Type Ratings have been outsourced. CU's are fluctuating with many students very unhappy with the courses as no training is actually being undertaken.
4) Travel - flights to and from Oz and NZ are consistently over booked so flights home on staff travel are not listed for use by crew and their families. Returning home has become very difficult on staff travel.
5) Pay - the target for this years results is incredibly high considering the world market. No profit share is expected, in turn with no pay rise. The earliest would be mid 2013. Even with pilot shortages widely reported EK will not adjust pay for new joiners, current crew and the training department. The DVP's do enjoy fat bonuses though!
6) Accommodation - the responsible department is incredibly unhelpful and many times rude to both new joiners and long term staff. The department staff are quick to file reports against you if they feel you are being pushy. The attitude is very much of tough luck and if you opt out of company accommodation then notification and conclusion of your stay is generally very short notice. As no leave is available this has resulted in high costs and hassle for crews which is not recoverable from the company.
7) Company Ethos - Both pilots and CC live under a fear of consistently being reported and face company action. This is resulting in crews not filling reports on incidents or filling reports for everything to try and cover themselves. Safety and efficiency is talked about, but the working environment is the far opposite. Any problems taken to management are pushed under the rug as even the managers are fearful of being seen to be out of touch and lacking control of their department. Safety is an issue!
8) No union - EK does not have a union and it does not look like it will. There are many crews talking about something similar which is hopeful, yet with senior management telling pilots to leave if they complain it will take something substantial for any change.
Again EK is not the answer!!
There are no DEC and it looks as if that will not change. The significant grief and unrest caused by the last DEC intake would mean the atmosphere in EK would get worse if the decision changed. The company portrays happiness and growth, but the expansion to too rapid and the crews are feeling it with no support from the management. This is evident with the A330/40 fleet and the B777 fleet flying 95hrs per month on night turn arounds or with minimum rest in between flights. Be aware that the FAA are in discussion with the EK over concerns about minimum rest periods on flights to the USA.
Divorce - it is well known that EK has one of the highest divorce rates amongst any other airline in the world. The Middle East is not as joyous as the recruitment wagon portrays and with crews away from home and fatigue on the increase the family suffers the most.
Ask the questions to the EK wagon but do not be surprised if the questions are shrugged off. They have targets to hit. Asking recruitment is not the answer as apparently most of the department do not operate the line or are guys on sick leave and are trying to hold on to their jobs.
I say again these are the facts as I have found in the 26 months I have been with EK. If you do join - then beware. You thought life in QF was poor, wait till you come to the dessert!
I made the mistake of leaving QF and joining EK, and after 2 years it is the worse decision I ever made. The EK recruitment wagon is out on roadshows around the world spinning how EK is a great and wonderful option and telling everyone how excellent it is.
Please look through it and see the real truth.
These are the facts on some of the problems in EK:
1) Rostering - The normal computerized system which allocates your roster is now being done manually as major pilot shortages do not allow for the program to complete the process. This is resulting in significant numbers of pilots on top bids getting none of their flights. Instead you are being given the opposite - high amount of night turnarounds or 5-7 day trips away from home.
2) Annual Leave - There is NO annual leave available for the next 4 months. There are a very large number of pilots who still have leave to take - above the 15 days that can be rolled over. Ops and Fleet have said that all leave will need to be rolled over to next year as there are no days available for forced leave either. Warnings are being heard from rostering and the planners about next years leave being tougher to get, which means the days rolled over will most likely not be honored. Don't forget that if you join EK you are banned from taking leave for the first 6 months!
3) Training - Poor standardization, poor levels of trainers being attracted due to very few applications to join the training department. When asked about this situation Capt AS suggested crews should return to their old companies if they don't like it! This is being combined with current trainers being heavily over worked resulting in many long term and respected trainers resigning. Type Ratings have been outsourced. CU's are fluctuating with many students very unhappy with the courses as no training is actually being undertaken.
4) Travel - flights to and from Oz and NZ are consistently over booked so flights home on staff travel are not listed for use by crew and their families. Returning home has become very difficult on staff travel.
5) Pay - the target for this years results is incredibly high considering the world market. No profit share is expected, in turn with no pay rise. The earliest would be mid 2013. Even with pilot shortages widely reported EK will not adjust pay for new joiners, current crew and the training department. The DVP's do enjoy fat bonuses though!
6) Accommodation - the responsible department is incredibly unhelpful and many times rude to both new joiners and long term staff. The department staff are quick to file reports against you if they feel you are being pushy. The attitude is very much of tough luck and if you opt out of company accommodation then notification and conclusion of your stay is generally very short notice. As no leave is available this has resulted in high costs and hassle for crews which is not recoverable from the company.
7) Company Ethos - Both pilots and CC live under a fear of consistently being reported and face company action. This is resulting in crews not filling reports on incidents or filling reports for everything to try and cover themselves. Safety and efficiency is talked about, but the working environment is the far opposite. Any problems taken to management are pushed under the rug as even the managers are fearful of being seen to be out of touch and lacking control of their department. Safety is an issue!
8) No union - EK does not have a union and it does not look like it will. There are many crews talking about something similar which is hopeful, yet with senior management telling pilots to leave if they complain it will take something substantial for any change.
Again EK is not the answer!!
There are no DEC and it looks as if that will not change. The significant grief and unrest caused by the last DEC intake would mean the atmosphere in EK would get worse if the decision changed. The company portrays happiness and growth, but the expansion to too rapid and the crews are feeling it with no support from the management. This is evident with the A330/40 fleet and the B777 fleet flying 95hrs per month on night turn arounds or with minimum rest in between flights. Be aware that the FAA are in discussion with the EK over concerns about minimum rest periods on flights to the USA.
Divorce - it is well known that EK has one of the highest divorce rates amongst any other airline in the world. The Middle East is not as joyous as the recruitment wagon portrays and with crews away from home and fatigue on the increase the family suffers the most.
Ask the questions to the EK wagon but do not be surprised if the questions are shrugged off. They have targets to hit. Asking recruitment is not the answer as apparently most of the department do not operate the line or are guys on sick leave and are trying to hold on to their jobs.
I say again these are the facts as I have found in the 26 months I have been with EK. If you do join - then beware. You thought life in QF was poor, wait till you come to the dessert!
Hi Keg.
Not Richard de Crappy-Nay by any chance? That really would make my day after his efforts last week! 
EK roadshow reporting that they've received EOI/ application from a QF A380 captain.
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Ozzie
You must have been very drunk or very high on grass.......or both on the day you chose to leave Qantas ........2 years ago ????
Frankly, how could you ever think life would be better in Dubaļ than in Sydney or wherever you lived.
This one was a real no brainer ! EK sucks and that's the huuuuuuuuuuuuge elephant in the room.
I hate european winter, I hate having to beat traffic on the bloody motorway, I hate walking in dog's crap when I get out of home........and hoodle of other things.....BUT !!! You could double the salary......I would not venture into the sandpit.
Hence, you QF blokes must surely have a mental condition to want to leave to put up with EK's package. 95 hours a month ! Minimum rest ! God Allmighty, one must either be tired of life or desperate for a job.
I got it .......!!!! you've had it much too easy and porky all these years that the mere talk of a little dent in the contract sends you running like headless chooks. Alan Joyce must be laughing his head off.
You haven't learned a thing from 1989..............yes,it's got everything to do with it cuz......when you're gone .........''younger, a tad cheaper or more productive blokes will be only too happy to take your place and will laugh their way to Mascott. Why is it that we airline pilots think no one can replace us ?
For all I know, I'd be happy being a F/O until my " natural term " just to live in Oz.
I watched an interview of Tim Clark on the FT site. You think Joyce is bad......well, wait until you've seen that one. What an arrogant p...k !
Ozzie, I would be interested to know what ......lured you into this death trap ?
You must have been very drunk or very high on grass.......or both on the day you chose to leave Qantas ........2 years ago ????
Frankly, how could you ever think life would be better in Dubaļ than in Sydney or wherever you lived.
This one was a real no brainer ! EK sucks and that's the huuuuuuuuuuuuge elephant in the room.
I hate european winter, I hate having to beat traffic on the bloody motorway, I hate walking in dog's crap when I get out of home........and hoodle of other things.....BUT !!! You could double the salary......I would not venture into the sandpit.
Hence, you QF blokes must surely have a mental condition to want to leave to put up with EK's package. 95 hours a month ! Minimum rest ! God Allmighty, one must either be tired of life or desperate for a job.
I got it .......!!!! you've had it much too easy and porky all these years that the mere talk of a little dent in the contract sends you running like headless chooks. Alan Joyce must be laughing his head off.
You haven't learned a thing from 1989..............yes,it's got everything to do with it cuz......when you're gone .........''younger, a tad cheaper or more productive blokes will be only too happy to take your place and will laugh their way to Mascott. Why is it that we airline pilots think no one can replace us ?
For all I know, I'd be happy being a F/O until my " natural term " just to live in Oz.
I watched an interview of Tim Clark on the FT site. You think Joyce is bad......well, wait until you've seen that one. What an arrogant p...k !
Ozzie, I would be interested to know what ......lured you into this death trap ?
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the pprune definition of exodus. a 3 year working holiday to dubai. a chance to fly brand spanking new shiny jets all over the world to new destinations. meet new people and experience a new culture. at the end of 3 years when you're feeling a little home sick, return to qantas all cashed up with benefits and seniority intact (maybe even advanced seniority due retirements).... from where im sitting, it looks like an enviable position to be in fellas. i've found the world's smallest violin, and i will now begin to play it in your honour.
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Pull up terrain said:
"I think Qantas should be worried about the LAME's going to EK too. Dad and 8 other QF guys have interviews over in Dubai soon. All of these guys have A330, 744 (LAME) licences and some have a380 licences too. (Quite expensive for QF considering some of these guys only have been on the a380 for such a short time).
I can tell you we know one 747 FO (i dont think on LWOP) who has gone over there (he doesnt plan to come back)."
Do you honestly think AJ & Co will lose sleep over watching QF Skygods or LAME's go elsewhere?? He grounded the bloody airline, anything else will be a walk in the park. In fact, they will be popping champagne corks if more of what you say actually happens. Fair dinkum, you blokes are dumb. A massive under-estimation of what you are all in for.
NP
"I think Qantas should be worried about the LAME's going to EK too. Dad and 8 other QF guys have interviews over in Dubai soon. All of these guys have A330, 744 (LAME) licences and some have a380 licences too. (Quite expensive for QF considering some of these guys only have been on the a380 for such a short time).
I can tell you we know one 747 FO (i dont think on LWOP) who has gone over there (he doesnt plan to come back)."
Do you honestly think AJ & Co will lose sleep over watching QF Skygods or LAME's go elsewhere?? He grounded the bloody airline, anything else will be a walk in the park. In fact, they will be popping champagne corks if more of what you say actually happens. Fair dinkum, you blokes are dumb. A massive under-estimation of what you are all in for.
NP
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Do you honestly think AJ & Co will lose sleep over watching QF Skygods or LAME's go elsewhere?? He grounded the bloody airline, anything else will be a walk in the park. In fact, they will be popping champagne corks if more of what you say actually happens. Fair dinkum, you blokes are dumb. A massive under-estimation of what you are all in for.
NP
NP
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a 3 year working holiday to dubai.
The comments written by the disaffected ex-QF pilot now with EK aren't too far off the mark, although I must admit, I still enjoyed my time there despite all of what he says being pretty accurate. I suspect many pilots who leave QF for "a 3 year working holiday to dubai" (or Qatar, or Abu Dhabi) might be in for quite a rude culture shock.