Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Air Australia!

Old 18th Feb 2012, 11:07
  #301 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Australia
Age: 58
Posts: 423
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Excellent..excellent!
Anthill is offline  
Old 18th Feb 2012, 11:15
  #302 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: what should be capital of Oz
Age: 68
Posts: 183
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
So who will cover the Derby/Curtin flights next week?
Indeed!

My company doesn't pay me as a FIFO if I'm not there to do the work.

Due there on Tuesday.
zanzibar is offline  
Old 18th Feb 2012, 11:35
  #303 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 175
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
zanzibar and Icarus2001 - you'd hope Skywest or Altitude might be able to pick up some of the affected routes for FIFO arrangements in the regions.
ACT Crusader is offline  
Old 18th Feb 2012, 11:39
  #304 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Oz
Posts: 902
Received 16 Likes on 12 Posts
So what was the problem with AA, did they expend all the money from forward bookings. The news said they had 100,000 tickets booked for the next few months. Seems like pretty healthy loads.

We all know a new entrant has to have substantial funds to cover the first few years losses, till they get established and part of the fabric of the travelling public.

What I'm really asking is, is the business viable for someone to get their hands on it at a firesale price, then build it up again over a few years and cop the losses in that time. Would 100 million in the kitty be enough.

I believe Optus budgeted for 10 years of losses in their start up business plan.
nomorecatering is online now  
Old 18th Feb 2012, 11:45
  #305 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Devonport Tasmania Australia
Posts: 1,837
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Oh my Ozangel.

Now you raise the ugly truths regarding Blight Centre.

Not issuing the insurance there and then is actionable in itself. As all of the evil empire is company owned I cannot for a second understand why cash was insisted on. Therefore I would demand to see what date the E tickets were issued on and a correct and verified copy of said E tickets. VC did not charge a credit card surcharge as far as I can tell. Have tried to get back into VC E tickets. Their "plate" has been deleted from BSP so the info is no longer available. Thank God I processed refunds on cash tickets before the thing was pulled, but it remains to be seen if they will be honoured.

The alleged E tickets provided by these alleged travel agents is merely an itinerary with ticket numbers and no genuine fare construction. This masks them applying whatever service fee they think they can get away with as there is no crosscheck. That is what happens when a large chunk of your salary comes from what you can gouge out of clients.

Insisting on cash smells very bad and would make one check what was actually receipted into the Blight Centre system. I do hope an official receipt was issued, not one out of a book buyable at Chickenfeed or the Reject Shop.

Bottom line is that if the insurance was signed and paid for on a given date and not issued until a month or so later, the seller of the insurance is in the crosshairs for a world of hurt. Contact the insurer initially as the representative of Captain Plastic is going to do every dodge in the world is the 1st move and if no good there straight to the insurance ombudsman.

Bore it up them. These bastards have been poluting the industry for far too long now with their dodgy practices and secret deals and have been caught out here. In a way I love it, but certainly not for the poor passengers affected.

If it were to come to light that more and more passengers were being pushed by this mob to cash transactions that indicate a major company wide cash flow problem.

We sell 2 seperate insurance companies that are SureSave and a Jetset branded QBE product and have received no notification from either that Strategic/Air Australia is precluded in carrier collapse terms. In fact I can not recall a single carrier exclusion being put in place ever over the 10 or so companies I have sold over far too many years.

There is something basically dodgy going on here and it deserves hard investigation.

Confronting the Blight Centre local manager with the fact that the payment and policy issue is about to go very public if not explained and covered and watch the sparks fly, and do not be bluffed out of action is my call.

I would also suggest that the passenger contacts the Travel Compensation fund who should cover any initial loss and start a formal proceeding against the agency group involved. There are some decidedly dodgy practices here.

Best

EWL

Last edited by Eastwest Loco; 18th Feb 2012 at 11:58.
Eastwest Loco is offline  
Old 18th Feb 2012, 12:20
  #306 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Sunny side up
Posts: 1,206
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
So what was the problem with AA, did they expend all the money from forward bookings. The news said they had 100,000 tickets booked for the next few months. Seems like pretty healthy loads.
Dunno about airlines, but this is becoming a problem for smaller players in the entertainment industry. Online sales mean you get the money at the time of sale, not at the actual event. This means that you can't count on a big wad of cash when your performance is on, because it actually came in (and often got spent) in dribs and drabs leading up to it. Some entertainment types are having a hard time getting used to this, and not relying on a big wad of cash come show night to cover the show costs; particularly the unexpected ones like when someone drops a road case on something expensive, falls out of the lighting grid or gets sued for breach of copyright / decency laws.

Of course budgeting and basic common sense would dictate that you put that money aside for the costs you'll incur while running the event or operating the flight, but there have been enough showbiz and airline train wrecks recently to show that this doesn't always happen.

These guys were spending money like drunken sailors (Indy sponsorships FFS? Lavish parties to Bali? Even Virgin have trimmed the Drunken Hangar Orgy budget in recent times, and they were the queens of the massive party ). After that big display of apparent opulence, they were brought down by fuel bills.

They follow a number of 'airline gone broke, everyone out of pocket' incidents and I don't blame the fuel companies for operating on a strictly cash basis. Along with a number of other service providers, they have been burned several times before.

Both industries attract manic attention seekers who want to see their name in lights. Both industries are also basically unprofitable because their operating costs are very close to their possible profit. Both industries are highly competitive and contain a number of companies who are either government sponsored or savvy old players who have been around a loong, loong time. They don't waste money whooping it up in Bali or swanking around at Indy. They spend it on the vital stuff like fuel and landing fees.

I believe Optus budgeted for 10 years of losses in their start up business plan.
Maybe that's why Optus are still trading.

Best of luck EWL. You must be having a pretty rough time at the moment!

Last edited by Worrals in the wilds; 18th Feb 2012 at 12:32.
Worrals in the wilds is offline  
Old 18th Feb 2012, 13:35
  #307 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Devonport Tasmania Australia
Posts: 1,837
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Thanks Worrals, but the main worry was my clients.

They are all happily accommodated and with minimal damage.

Compared to the Ansett fold this is a mere fart in the bath but extremely distressing to the guys and girls at VC and the industry as a whole.

Quel domage

Best

EWL
Eastwest Loco is offline  
Old 18th Feb 2012, 14:37
  #308 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: No Fixed Abode
Posts: 210
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
This venture should have worked. Forward sales were great and a product that was initially quite good appealed to the public prior to going down the low cost route.
Absolutely millions where spent on setting up an engineering business that was a huge drain on cash and resources, profligate spending on parties and sponsorship and a staff level of 300 for 4 aircraft.
Regardless of what might be fair or right, the administrator will walk with his fee, those of us due entitlements guaranteed by the government will get them in time and that's the end of it.
Hoofharted is offline  
Old 18th Feb 2012, 15:54
  #309 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Cairns Australia
Posts: 124
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Regarding the Perth-Derby route it was operating 4 per week.
Thats all the 320 did in since they canned the Bali run from Perth.
Not good aircraft utilisation if you ask me.
Alliance or Skywest could step in and run a few F100s in their downtime between existing flights.
jarden is offline  
Old 18th Feb 2012, 18:51
  #310 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: New Zealand
Age: 64
Posts: 523
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Travel Insurance

ozangel: Flight Centre were acting as the insurance company's agent, not your agent - so their failure to "lodge" the policy with the insurance company make no difference (and even if did, then Flight Centre were negligent and are liable for the loss).
ampan is offline  
Old 18th Feb 2012, 19:50
  #311 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Downunder
Age: 74
Posts: 257
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Arnold E
And pray tell genius, how does the lady that lives down the road from me know that this or that particular airline is headed for the rocks, and pleeeease dont tell me its because you paid a cheap fare.........

I think one give-away might of been the fact that for the last four months you haven't been able to buy travel insurance covering the event that they go insolvent, in fact, specifically, most of the major travel retailers have SPECIFICALLY been making people SIGN DISCLAIMERS that travel insurance was not available for this event.

However, Those who planned and booked wayyy back and DID buy travel insurance have my sympathies, those who planned and booked back then and did not purchase travel insurance, well, they're just not smart enough to travel !

ST
SpannerTwister is offline  
Old 18th Feb 2012, 23:12
  #312 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Tallong NSW
Posts: 280
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Is someone, like the administrators, trying to make some of this up.

Sandilands doesn't believe the official version of events.

He might be onto something about this.

AirAustralia and its administrator met before 1.30 am today | Plane Talking
denabol is offline  
Old 19th Feb 2012, 00:51
  #313 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: OZwest
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Jarden,
Air Australia were doing 5 Derby/Curtin runs per week. A daily weekday flight ex Perth at 0630.
XRlent320 is offline  
Old 19th Feb 2012, 01:16
  #314 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Queensland
Posts: 632
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Quote:
I believe Optus budgeted for 10 years of losses in their start up business plan.


I'd bet my cods their financiers didn't !!
PA39 is offline  
Old 19th Feb 2012, 02:58
  #315 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: PPrune nominee 2011!
Posts: 1,561
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Skywest now do the RPT to Derby / Curtin announced on their website. Could not think of a better operator!
Skystar320 is offline  
Old 19th Feb 2012, 03:33
  #316 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: home
Posts: 514
Received 16 Likes on 8 Posts
Nomorecateing, I'm sure you'd pick up AA at a bargan price as they have virtually nothing to sell.
Hoof, I disagree, when they were full service they were competing with dozens of cashed up airlines and then they went low cost and were competing with dozens of cashed up LCCs.
Can anybody name a small incumbent airline (not FIFO) that has survived in Oz ? VB ? Weeks from going broke when AN fell over.Impulse? Bought out by evil empire . The list goes on.
As for utilisation of the PH 320, 10hrs a day is considered reasonable, not 5.
airdualbleedfault is offline  
Old 19th Feb 2012, 03:46
  #317 (permalink)  
Whispering "T" Jet
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Melbourne.
Age: 68
Posts: 653
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
I'm sure you'd pick up AA at a bargan price as they have virtually nothing to sell.
.................except $30 million worth of debt.That would attract a huge number of buyers at a "bargain price" !
3 Holer is offline  
Old 19th Feb 2012, 05:04
  #318 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: WLG (FORMERLY PER)
Posts: 1,195
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
I thought Alliance had a problem uplifting the freight on the Derby runs when they were doing the run with an F100 in between Ozjet collapse and Strategic getting the contract.
topend3 is offline  
Old 19th Feb 2012, 05:08
  #319 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Oz
Posts: 902
Received 16 Likes on 12 Posts
In there is no assets to sell, and the business is liquidated, the creditors would get nothing. Zilch.

However, if you offered them 30 cents in the dollar, thats better than nothing. It's a common practice in buying insolvent companies in the US.

You get an AOC, staff, the planes, marketing etc. restart the business, ruthlessly trim costs.
nomorecatering is online now  
Old 19th Feb 2012, 05:17
  #320 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Asia
Posts: 2,372
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
If you can afford to take a chance with a cheap fare on the basis that you might not get to travel or end up making your own way home, then fair enough if the saving is enough to justify the risk.

If you don't have the means to support yourself abroad for a few extra days and pay for a ticket on another airline then stick with the big boys.
Metro man is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.