DASH 8 accident in PNG
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We ALL want to know that.. Why put it in writing here?
Do you just want Pay-Back..? Don't go off all emotional, - if lessons can be learned from this, that will avoid something similar happening to another operator, ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD, give the experts a run.
While we feel your pain, - get over it, move on, and wait for an expert analysis.
That takes time, and 'Expert' sifting of the factors involved, if we are All to find out the real reasons for this tragedy.
Do you just want Pay-Back..? Don't go off all emotional, - if lessons can be learned from this, that will avoid something similar happening to another operator, ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD, give the experts a run.
While we feel your pain, - get over it, move on, and wait for an expert analysis.
That takes time, and 'Expert' sifting of the factors involved, if we are All to find out the real reasons for this tragedy.
Fair comment Much Ado.
Although, having read the offending post before it was deleted, I'd like to say that I read the post as a statement of opinion, and not one of fact.
Others may have differed? Never mind.
Perhaps this little 'episode' should be a reminder to all of us that:
That's just my opinion though. 
Although, having read the offending post before it was deleted, I'd like to say that I read the post as a statement of opinion, and not one of fact.
Others may have differed? Never mind.
Perhaps this little 'episode' should be a reminder to all of us that:
To be certain that you will never be liable to pay damages for libel, you should refrain from writing, printing or publishing or distributing any written matter of whatsoever nature.
UK lawyer Peter Carter-Ruck
UK lawyer Peter Carter-Ruck
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Calm down
I have read the preliminary report and will not comment in too much detail, but suffice to say that at 1717 the aircrafts overspeed warning sounded. Very shortly afterwards BOTH props simultaneously oversped and exceeded their maximum rpm by in excess of 60%.
Witnesses on the ground reported hearing a loud 'bang' as this occurred. The flight crew shut down both engines.
Preliminary CVR transcript, sound spectrum plot, FDR plots and data listings have been supplied to the investigative team.
Ongoing investigation activities are continuing in the area of engine and prop assemblies, recorded information and maintenance documentation and procedures.
Hopefully this will at least steady some of the emotion on this thread before it gets closed.
Witnesses on the ground reported hearing a loud 'bang' as this occurred. The flight crew shut down both engines.
Preliminary CVR transcript, sound spectrum plot, FDR plots and data listings have been supplied to the investigative team.
Ongoing investigation activities are continuing in the area of engine and prop assemblies, recorded information and maintenance documentation and procedures.
Hopefully this will at least steady some of the emotion on this thread before it gets closed.
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Do you just want Pay-Back..? Don't go off all emotional,
If you understood kinship you would not make stupid comment about payback.
Mi nogat bebi sense belon dispela balus i go bagarap.
Oli man laik save sumting bai taim Dash 8 pundown.
While we feel your pain,
And I wish a speedy recovery to David Inau, in hospital
Last edited by tolakuma manki; 6th Nov 2011 at 22:12.
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Wanpela man istap long UAE pelim pein long ol PNG wantok. sori tru long balus I bagarap.
If you lived in PNG you would not need to ask for posts in English. The people of PNG are devastated by this accident, bring on the Niugini Pidgin.
Lukim yu.
If you lived in PNG you would not need to ask for posts in English. The people of PNG are devastated by this accident, bring on the Niugini Pidgin.
Lukim yu.
Last edited by BVI Boy; 7th Nov 2011 at 05:04.
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Harim tok bilong mi - ol man na meri, Missus na Masta ikam long PPRuNe inogot save long tok Pisin.
Long dispela hap - ENGLISH is the language of this Forum!
Long dispela hap - ENGLISH is the language of this Forum!
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Does anyone have access to the Investigation report as I can't find it?
In the meantime please refer to my below post, you will find out in due course that this sums up accurately the invstigation thus far, limited in scope and detail, but the guts of the investigation so far are as I have posted.
At 1717 the aircrafts overspeed warning sounded. Very shortly afterwards BOTH props simultaneously oversped and exceeded their maximum rpm by in excess of 60%.
Witnesses on the ground reported hearing a loud 'bang' as this occurred. The flight crew shut down both engines.
Preliminary CVR transcript, sound spectrum plot, FDR plots and data listings have been supplied to the investigative team.
Ongoing investigation activities are continuing in the area of engine and prop assemblies, recorded information and maintenance documentation and procedures.
Witnesses on the ground reported hearing a loud 'bang' as this occurred. The flight crew shut down both engines.
Preliminary CVR transcript, sound spectrum plot, FDR plots and data listings have been supplied to the investigative team.
Ongoing investigation activities are continuing in the area of engine and prop assemblies, recorded information and maintenance documentation and procedures.
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Very shortly afterwards BOTH props simultaneously oversped and exceeded their maximum rpm by in excess of 60%.
BH
Over-speeding’ propellers blamed for Dash 8 disaster
Source: The National, Monday 07th November 2011
By JASON GIMA WURI
THE fatal Airlines PNG Dash 8 crash on Oct 13 near Madang was caused by the “over-speeding” of both propellers, a preliminary report of the Papua New Guinea Accident Investigation Commission has found.
The commission said the propellers exceeded their maximum permitted revolutions per minute by more than 60%.
It said because of this there was a loud “bang” which witnesses on the ground reported hearing.
The flight crew then shut down both engines.
“At 5.17pm the crew made a mayday call to air traffic control and indicated they were having an in-flight emergency and that both engines had stopped.
“Madang tower then declared a search and rescue phase, believing the aircraft was about to ditch into the ocean.
“But the aircraft landed on a sparsely timbered terrain on the northern side of the Buang River, 33km southeast of Madang town, killing 28 of the 32 people on board.”
The report said that on impact, the plane was badly damaged while colliding with trees and the ground and an intense fuel-fed fire started.
Villagers who had heard and seen the aircraft in the final stages of its descent rushed to the crash site to find the fuselage engulfed in flames.
They then helped the four survivors and took them to the nearest aid post.
The preliminary report was released last Friday by the commission’s acting chief exec*utive officer Sid O’Toole, who said they had met the requirement for a preliminary report to be ready within 30 days.
It said the pilot in command, 64, and his 40-year-old first officer had 18,200 flying hours and 2,750 flying hours respectively, with both holding valid PNG airlines transport pilot licences.
The report said the flight progressed normally and flight P2-MCJ was transferred to Madang air traffic control at 5.10pm on descent into Madang.
“The descent profile on this sector was steep because of the proximity of the Finisterre Ranges to Madang and the pilot, who was the handling pilot, was hand-flying the aircraft because the autopilot was unserviceable.”
The report said the pilot was manoeuvring the aircraft visually to avoid cloud and thunderstorms.
At 5.12pm, in response to a request from Madang tower, the flight crew stated that the aircraft was 24 nautical miles from Madang, leaving 13,000ft on descent.
O’Toole said: “The Dash 8 has a turbine engine which runs through a gear box and it runs through the propellers and over-speed caused self-destruction.
“The investigations have been supersonic and we thank Prime Minister Peter O’Neill for visiting the site and we are glad that O’Neill has made a commitment to release funds to complete the investigation,” he said.
“We thank TropicAir for their help in this time.”
Civil Aviation Minister Puri Ruing thanked the commission, the Aviation Transport Safety Bureau of Australia, the Transport Safety Board of Canada, aircraft manufacturer Bombardier, engine manufacturer Pratt and Whitney, the Civil Aviation Safety Authority of PNG (CASA) and Airlines PNG for their cooperation and help in enabling the investigation to progress efficiently and effectively, resulting in the preliminary report being issued in under 30 days.
Source: The National, Monday 07th November 2011
By JASON GIMA WURI
THE fatal Airlines PNG Dash 8 crash on Oct 13 near Madang was caused by the “over-speeding” of both propellers, a preliminary report of the Papua New Guinea Accident Investigation Commission has found.
The commission said the propellers exceeded their maximum permitted revolutions per minute by more than 60%.
It said because of this there was a loud “bang” which witnesses on the ground reported hearing.
The flight crew then shut down both engines.
“At 5.17pm the crew made a mayday call to air traffic control and indicated they were having an in-flight emergency and that both engines had stopped.
“Madang tower then declared a search and rescue phase, believing the aircraft was about to ditch into the ocean.
“But the aircraft landed on a sparsely timbered terrain on the northern side of the Buang River, 33km southeast of Madang town, killing 28 of the 32 people on board.”
The report said that on impact, the plane was badly damaged while colliding with trees and the ground and an intense fuel-fed fire started.
Villagers who had heard and seen the aircraft in the final stages of its descent rushed to the crash site to find the fuselage engulfed in flames.
They then helped the four survivors and took them to the nearest aid post.
The preliminary report was released last Friday by the commission’s acting chief exec*utive officer Sid O’Toole, who said they had met the requirement for a preliminary report to be ready within 30 days.
It said the pilot in command, 64, and his 40-year-old first officer had 18,200 flying hours and 2,750 flying hours respectively, with both holding valid PNG airlines transport pilot licences.
The report said the flight progressed normally and flight P2-MCJ was transferred to Madang air traffic control at 5.10pm on descent into Madang.
“The descent profile on this sector was steep because of the proximity of the Finisterre Ranges to Madang and the pilot, who was the handling pilot, was hand-flying the aircraft because the autopilot was unserviceable.”
The report said the pilot was manoeuvring the aircraft visually to avoid cloud and thunderstorms.
At 5.12pm, in response to a request from Madang tower, the flight crew stated that the aircraft was 24 nautical miles from Madang, leaving 13,000ft on descent.
O’Toole said: “The Dash 8 has a turbine engine which runs through a gear box and it runs through the propellers and over-speed caused self-destruction.
“The investigations have been supersonic and we thank Prime Minister Peter O’Neill for visiting the site and we are glad that O’Neill has made a commitment to release funds to complete the investigation,” he said.
“We thank TropicAir for their help in this time.”
Civil Aviation Minister Puri Ruing thanked the commission, the Aviation Transport Safety Bureau of Australia, the Transport Safety Board of Canada, aircraft manufacturer Bombardier, engine manufacturer Pratt and Whitney, the Civil Aviation Safety Authority of PNG (CASA) and Airlines PNG for their cooperation and help in enabling the investigation to progress efficiently and effectively, resulting in the preliminary report being issued in under 30 days.
Sid is a very capable engineer and competent accident investigator with more years PNG experience than I remember.
I would be very confident that, suppirted by the "Transport Safety Board of Canada, aircraft manufacturer Bombardier, engine manufacturer Pratt and Whitney", in the fullness of time we will see a very comprehensive and authoritive report on the accident.
I would be very confident that, suppirted by the "Transport Safety Board of Canada, aircraft manufacturer Bombardier, engine manufacturer Pratt and Whitney", in the fullness of time we will see a very comprehensive and authoritive report on the accident.
Prelim report now on the ATSB website.
Rumour going around that the prop RPMs exceeded well and truly over 60% of 1200 RPM. The figures that I heard these props got to are incrediable if what I heard is true. Really goes to show how how rock solid Bombardiar have made these machines in anycase. Pure Canadian muscle if you ask me !
Rumour going around that the prop RPMs exceeded well and truly over 60% of 1200 RPM. The figures that I heard these props got to are incrediable if what I heard is true. Really goes to show how how rock solid Bombardiar have made these machines in anycase. Pure Canadian muscle if you ask me !
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Really goes to show how how rock solid Bombardiar have made these machines in anycase. Pure Canadian muscle if you ask me !
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To get 60% over speed on both engines, assuming a malfunction of technology is not involved, what would you have to do to get that? VNE or more? Or is it fairly easy to do?