Virgin Australia Long Haul International EBA is up!!
Berealgetreal,
Perhaps you should take a page out of your own book.
1. 787's are nice but VA has 777's and A330's. Soon to be replaced with either 787's or A350's. So what's your point here?
2. Staff/Duty travel has been mentioned a number of times. Do you normally select an employer based on that? I hope not. For clarification VA get business class travel internationally on VA and Etihad and also $1000 of free travel with the ability to hand buddy sectors to anyone.
3. Progression into mainline? Are you still falling for those nice little EOI's they keep sending you to make you think you have a better chance than external applicants? With no combined seniority list and a pilot shortage across all subsidiary's do you really think they will cripple themselves by allowing "progression"? Group pilots are currently being held back whilst external applications are just about to start.
4. Profits in the group are exceptional. No one is arguing that. I still remember the pay freeze everyone served and the 5000 job cuts that got them there.
5. LWOP and secondments have been offered at VA in the past. So no difference there.
Can't seem to find the Jetstar hiring page anywhere either?
There is simply more pay, more time off and more interesting flying at VA with guaranteed progression on a combined seniority list.
Oh and I almost forgot to mention the most important part. The girls are better looking...
Perhaps you should take a page out of your own book.
1. 787's are nice but VA has 777's and A330's. Soon to be replaced with either 787's or A350's. So what's your point here?
2. Staff/Duty travel has been mentioned a number of times. Do you normally select an employer based on that? I hope not. For clarification VA get business class travel internationally on VA and Etihad and also $1000 of free travel with the ability to hand buddy sectors to anyone.
3. Progression into mainline? Are you still falling for those nice little EOI's they keep sending you to make you think you have a better chance than external applicants? With no combined seniority list and a pilot shortage across all subsidiary's do you really think they will cripple themselves by allowing "progression"? Group pilots are currently being held back whilst external applications are just about to start.
4. Profits in the group are exceptional. No one is arguing that. I still remember the pay freeze everyone served and the 5000 job cuts that got them there.
5. LWOP and secondments have been offered at VA in the past. So no difference there.
Can't seem to find the Jetstar hiring page anywhere either?
There is simply more pay, more time off and more interesting flying at VA with guaranteed progression on a combined seniority list.
Oh and I almost forgot to mention the most important part. The girls are better looking...
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OK, We all realise everyone is entitled to an opinion included QF and VANZ guys.
But let's get back on topic unless we get triple digits in the first year of this proposed WB EBA good luck getting it voted up. All the BS aside we will not accept being payed less than an FA
Our starting price given we are working on a well expired EBA is triple digits, I'm now stuck in the system and below VARA proper money for SOs has to be on the agenda.
But let's get back on topic unless we get triple digits in the first year of this proposed WB EBA good luck getting it voted up. All the BS aside we will not accept being payed less than an FA
Our starting price given we are working on a well expired EBA is triple digits, I'm now stuck in the system and below VARA proper money for SOs has to be on the agenda.
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LWOP is being offered to those 777 right seat drivers earning left seat wages. S/o's need to push for this pay rise as support from the front two seats will be mostly non existent.
Most F/O's are now getting Command bypass pay, the company knew for a long time that as of June 2016 they'd be getting it, so had plenty of time to save the $$$$.
F/O bypass pay is no excuse to deny S/O's of a much needed and much overdue pay rise.
Most F/O's are now getting Command bypass pay, the company knew for a long time that as of June 2016 they'd be getting it, so had plenty of time to save the $$$$.
F/O bypass pay is no excuse to deny S/O's of a much needed and much overdue pay rise.
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S/o's need to push for this pay rise as support from the front two seats will be mostly non existent.
True, it didn't help when they got booted down the Group Date of Joining list back in the last EBA offering. S.O's are a group that both the company and other pilots love to marginalise it seems. I wish them the best, but I don't see any real gains as achievable.
Command priority date was justified.
What wasn't justified was a group of pilots negotiating their place on a seniority list that wasn't theirs!!! Or if you don't want to look at it that way, it wasn't justified that the wide body EBA alone (and hence the wide body pilots) were able to negotiate how the lists would be joined. The short haul pilots had zero input into the wide body negotiations that secured a massive win for the CRZFO's.
Under the deal that they had originally signed up to, prior to that new EBA coming in, they (CRZFO's) were always going to have to basically quit V and start at the bottom of the domestic seniority list when moving to the right seat. What they got at least is priority on wide body right seats in the future.
There were a lot of guys who decided to not apply for the CRZFO gig because the T&C's were so ****. Joined the short haul under the knowledge that any CRZFO's coming from the wide body would start at the bottom below them, only to have that EBA come in and the goal posts change.
In reality the company is to blame for the most part, and to a lesser degree the unions. Company should never have set it up a separate entity only to join it later
. And the unions should not have allowed that to be put into the wide body EBA without at least a survey to the short haul guys as they were also going to be directly impacted by it too!
Always two sides to the story.
What wasn't justified was a group of pilots negotiating their place on a seniority list that wasn't theirs!!! Or if you don't want to look at it that way, it wasn't justified that the wide body EBA alone (and hence the wide body pilots) were able to negotiate how the lists would be joined. The short haul pilots had zero input into the wide body negotiations that secured a massive win for the CRZFO's.
Under the deal that they had originally signed up to, prior to that new EBA coming in, they (CRZFO's) were always going to have to basically quit V and start at the bottom of the domestic seniority list when moving to the right seat. What they got at least is priority on wide body right seats in the future.
There were a lot of guys who decided to not apply for the CRZFO gig because the T&C's were so ****. Joined the short haul under the knowledge that any CRZFO's coming from the wide body would start at the bottom below them, only to have that EBA come in and the goal posts change.
In reality the company is to blame for the most part, and to a lesser degree the unions. Company should never have set it up a separate entity only to join it later
. And the unions should not have allowed that to be put into the wide body EBA without at least a survey to the short haul guys as they were also going to be directly impacted by it too!Always two sides to the story.
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I like your style Biatch, never let facts get in the way of blaming everyone else for something you don't understand.
Facts
So in short.
The Company was entirely to blame.
The industrial instruments worked exactly as they should have. LH pilots voted on their document without any interference from SH pilots. SH pilots addressed perceived issues in their document without any interference from LH pilots.
End result that nobody particularly happy, which in general usually means about the right outcome.
If you're not happy with the way your union is representing you, get of the couch and onto a committee and have a real say rather than criticising those who give up their own time and work tirelessly for nothing, for your benefit.
Facts
So in short.
The Company was entirely to blame.
The industrial instruments worked exactly as they should have. LH pilots voted on their document without any interference from SH pilots. SH pilots addressed perceived issues in their document without any interference from LH pilots.
End result that nobody particularly happy, which in general usually means about the right outcome.
If you're not happy with the way your union is representing you, get of the couch and onto a committee and have a real say rather than criticising those who give up their own time and work tirelessly for nothing, for your benefit.
Command priority date was justified.
What wasn't justified was a group of pilots negotiating their place on a seniority list that wasn't theirs!!! Or if you don't want to look at it that way, it wasn't justified that the wide body EBA alone (and hence the wide body pilots) were able to negotiate how the lists would be joined. The short haul pilots had zero input into the wide body negotiations that secured a massive win for the CRZFO's.
Under the deal that they had originally signed up to, prior to that new EBA coming in, they (CRZFO's) were always going to have to basically quit V and start at the bottom of the domestic seniority list when moving to the right seat. What they got at least is priority on wide body right seats in the future.
There were a lot of guys who decided to not apply for the CRZFO gig because the T&C's were so ****. Joined the short haul under the knowledge that any CRZFO's coming from the wide body would start at the bottom below them, only to have that EBA come in and the goal posts change.
In reality the company is to blame for the most part, and to a lesser degree the unions. Company should never have set it up a separate entity only to join it later. And the unions should not have allowed that to be put into the wide body EBA without at least a survey to the short haul guys as they were also going to be directly impacted by it too!
Always two sides to the story.
What wasn't justified was a group of pilots negotiating their place on a seniority list that wasn't theirs!!! Or if you don't want to look at it that way, it wasn't justified that the wide body EBA alone (and hence the wide body pilots) were able to negotiate how the lists would be joined. The short haul pilots had zero input into the wide body negotiations that secured a massive win for the CRZFO's.
Under the deal that they had originally signed up to, prior to that new EBA coming in, they (CRZFO's) were always going to have to basically quit V and start at the bottom of the domestic seniority list when moving to the right seat. What they got at least is priority on wide body right seats in the future.
There were a lot of guys who decided to not apply for the CRZFO gig because the T&C's were so ****. Joined the short haul under the knowledge that any CRZFO's coming from the wide body would start at the bottom below them, only to have that EBA come in and the goal posts change.
In reality the company is to blame for the most part, and to a lesser degree the unions. Company should never have set it up a separate entity only to join it later
. And the unions should not have allowed that to be put into the wide body EBA without at least a survey to the short haul guys as they were also going to be directly impacted by it too!Always two sides to the story.
Last edited by DUXNUTZ; 14th Oct 2016 at 13:38.
Whichever way a merge/joining/welding/smashing or whatever else you want to call it of seniority lists is carried out it will always end in some group or another being disadvantaged.
There is no way of keeping everyone happy!
The guys in the right hand seat of the domestic jets, who had no say in the long haul EBA felt that their ability to move to command was being compromised by the inclusion of the cruisers, the cruisers thought they were being shafted, the long haul fo's who thought they would get long haul commands were upset because the upstarts from domestic took their commands, the 330 pilots were upset because the first vote got defeated, in part because of the seniority list stuff, and it cost some of them more than 25 k in lost back pay.
No one group is entirely happy and no one group is out to shaft the others, compromise is the name of the game and the unfortunate thing is that realpolitik is alive and well. Many cruisers are able to move out of the back seat into a window seat because of advantageous clauses in relation to freeze periods that do not apply to any other work group so it is swings and roundabouts..
But the thing to remember is that we are all one pilot group and sitting there taking pot shots at each other is a waste of effort and just breeds unhappiness.
There is no way of keeping everyone happy!
The guys in the right hand seat of the domestic jets, who had no say in the long haul EBA felt that their ability to move to command was being compromised by the inclusion of the cruisers, the cruisers thought they were being shafted, the long haul fo's who thought they would get long haul commands were upset because the upstarts from domestic took their commands, the 330 pilots were upset because the first vote got defeated, in part because of the seniority list stuff, and it cost some of them more than 25 k in lost back pay.
No one group is entirely happy and no one group is out to shaft the others, compromise is the name of the game and the unfortunate thing is that realpolitik is alive and well. Many cruisers are able to move out of the back seat into a window seat because of advantageous clauses in relation to freeze periods that do not apply to any other work group so it is swings and roundabouts..
But the thing to remember is that we are all one pilot group and sitting there taking pot shots at each other is a waste of effort and just breeds unhappiness.