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Old 13th Jun 2011, 09:14   #1 (permalink)
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New Volcanic Ash warning.

Watch out ADL.

Volcanic Ash Graphics 5

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Old 13th Jun 2011, 09:27   #2 (permalink)
 
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This could go on and on. Mother nature does what it wants. She's not concerned.
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Old 13th Jun 2011, 10:39   #3 (permalink)
 
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Where's Dick Smith to tell us all that everything is safe and it's just the airlines being "ultra-conservative"?
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Old 13th Jun 2011, 11:21   #4 (permalink)
 
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Qantas, Tiger and Jetstar have ceased all flying to/from Adl till tomorrow mid morning.
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Old 13th Jun 2011, 11:34   #5 (permalink)
 
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Where's Dick Smith to tell us all that everything is safe and it's just the airlines being "ultra-conservative"?
Forget the Dick....GT is the new 'go to man'. He knows everything about aircraft, engineering, weather, volcano's, airline finances, aviation investments, Mrs Wirthless make-up and hair stylist etc etc...........
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Old 13th Jun 2011, 11:44   #6 (permalink)
 
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are melb-LA flights affected by this??
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Old 13th Jun 2011, 11:54   #7 (permalink)
 
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A return to PrPRuNe

I remember (back in the 1990's & early 2000's) when PPRuNe was a font of knowledge.

It has since turned in a simpering cauldron of narrow and nasty industrial tribal warfare.

Have any of the 'professional pilots' on this forum seen any evidence of volcanic clouds worth mentioning?

With the current hysterical over-reaction to the ash-plume eminating from Chile - it would be ideal to get feedback from qualified and experienced eye-witnesses. Why the silence?
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Old 13th Jun 2011, 12:02   #8 (permalink)
 
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I remember (back in the 1990's & early 2000's) when PPRuNe was a font of knowledge.
It has since turned in a simpering cauldron of narrow and nasty industrial tribal warfare.
Have any of the 'professional pilots' on this forum seen any evidence of volcanic clouds worth mentioning?
With the current hysterical over-reaction to the ash-plume eminating from Chile - it would be ideal to get feedback from qualified and experienced eye-witnesses. Why the silence?
Dic#head, try reading this;
British Airways Flight 9 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 13th Jun 2011, 12:55   #9 (permalink)
 
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BA flew into the Ash cloud VERY CLOSE to it's ejection point and the amount and size of the ash was significant.

NOT the same as we are seeing above us ( or rather NOT seeing )

Last edited by nitpicker330; 13th Jun 2011 at 13:07.
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Old 13th Jun 2011, 13:21   #10 (permalink)
 
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If you guys and gals could get hold of a Boeing Maintenance Manual, go to ATA Chapter 5.....

Look for 'Conditional Inspections'.

Then read "Flying through Volcanic Ash".

You probably wouldn't be asking "Why?"
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Old 13th Jun 2011, 13:29   #11 (permalink)
 
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Hi Redpanda,

I agree - one should never fly through significant volcanic ash.

I do not believe that we have significant volcanic ash over Australia at present.

The airline operating manuals also state that flight should not be conducted through thunderstorms and micro-burst and so forth. Which is not interpreted by the general aviation community as as reason to cancel all flights. We are (I thought...) smarter than that. We understand that the danger in these phenomenon is specific and identifiable and definable.

Where is this supposed 'boogey-man' of a volcanic ash cloud? It would be different if it was in Indonesia or New Zealand. But, for goodness sake - this ash cloud (for want of a better word) has come from South America. And, it hasn't even come the shortest route - it's come via South Africa.

It is so dispersed it is unidentifiable.
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Old 13th Jun 2011, 13:46   #12 (permalink)
 
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Hey HIALS

A one minute flight through volcanic ash can halve the value of an aircraft fuselage without even looking at any of the various engine considerations.

You may have spent too long in a third world environment (pardon the pun)
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Old 13th Jun 2011, 13:59   #13 (permalink)
 
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I agree that a one minute flight through an erupting volcanic plume will destroy an aircraft.

My point is being lost.

This is not a proximate volcanic plume. It is an enormously dispersed cloud.

The Icelandic volcano that disrupted Europe was a 4 hour flight away from AMS/FRA/CPH/LHR etc. (I know because I have flown from continental Europe to Iceland in a 747 many times.) That would be the equivalent of having Chile, in this example, in the same location as Perth......

This ash cloud (for want of a better word) has come more than half way round the world..... It didn't even come the short route (i.e. South America to Australia/New Zealand) it came the long way round. This ash cloud has travelled from South America, via the South Atlantic to South Africa. Then onwards across the Indian Ocean to Australia. It is preposterous to think it still has the same density of pumice material as the other volcanoes that have disrupted air travel.

All the aircraft operating manuals being quoted are irrelevant. I'm saying - the Emperor Has No Clothes. I suspect there is no ash cloud.
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Old 13th Jun 2011, 14:03   #14 (permalink)
 
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NASA's Unexpected Volcanic Ash Encounter Flight
Quote:
Ten years ago, a NASA DC-8 unintentionally flew through a diffuse ash cloud generated by Hekla, a volcano in Iceland, and upon first inspection showed no damage -- key words "unintentionally" and "upon first inspection." What the event showed is that the most up-to-date information on ash cloud location could be misinterpreted and significant damage could be incurred in spite of a vigilant, well-briefed flight crew. What's more, that damage can be very expensive and hard to detect. Then NASA propulsion engineer Tom Grindle worked the case and co-authored a paper on his findings.
For those keen to see the airlines HTFU on this I think the above story will go some way to explaining why it's simply not worth the risk.
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Old 13th Jun 2011, 14:10   #15 (permalink)
 
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Have a look at the IR image animation at the bottom of this page & see how dispersed it isn't:

BoM-Darwin Volcanic Ash Advisory Centre

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Old 13th Jun 2011, 14:17   #16 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
It didn't even come the short route (i.e. South America to Australia/New Zealand) it came the long way round.
Chile 070Wish

Perth 115Eish

With 175 degrees of longitude separating them, it doesn't look like there is much of a short cut anyway.
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Old 13th Jun 2011, 14:20   #17 (permalink)
 
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Bon soir le pingouin,

Perhaps I am seriously deluded - but that IR Sat Pic showed the 'red bit' traversing to the South of Australia (even the south of Tasmania).

Furthermore, it did not quantify the density of the cloud.
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Old 13th Jun 2011, 14:23   #18 (permalink)
 
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dudduddud - it cannot and did not travel over the south pole. The plume is travelling around the world in the roaring 40's wind.

Have you ever flown over the pole? I have flown polar routes (up to 89 degrees North) for years. The idea of equating Great Circle Tracks to the geosphere is really ignorant.
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Old 13th Jun 2011, 14:27   #19 (permalink)
 
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HIALS,
I agree with you lets face it, it is a world of risk analysts now, and they call the shots, 40 years ago they wouldnt have known and only aircraft flying into the plume nearby ever had any problems. Lets face it all the radiation released from tests and reactor problems never got mapped so we are OK right?? We live in a mad world!
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Old 13th Jun 2011, 17:17   #20 (permalink)
 
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HIALS, the point is you claim the ash is "dispersed and unidentifiable", while the images clearly show it is very much the opposite. The tail of it clearly washes over Tasmania & possibly into the Bight.

You believe what you want but the satellite images are showing detectable quantities of ash.
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