QF shares hit $2.00, discuss
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Who said there is only one way to skin a cat, and the PIA fairy has not even been let out of its dungeon like, crab infested warty box.
Last edited by Shed Dog Tosser; 6th Jun 2011 at 07:39.
What can you buy for 2 bucks? 1x QF share (if yr silly enuf,with change) or a ticket on a plane............there's the main problem with our Airlines of today. They have sold themselves out with stupidly cheap unsustainable ticket prices. People will still fly in large No's if the fares where raised to make these airlines viable Aussies love to travel, hardly think that everyone will stop doing so if the prices go up..................you reap what you sow CEO's!
Wmk2
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Originally Posted by SDT
So whats the super dooper isolvent share price ?.
"Total assets" divided "by the number of shares".
Disclaimer: I'm not an MBA, so forgive me if I am using technically incorrect terminology.
"Total assets" divided "by the number of shares".
Disclaimer: I'm not an MBA, so forgive me if I am using technically incorrect terminology.
What a significantly reduced share price and thus market capitalisation may do is breach certain banking convenants which makes loans harder to obtain, more expensive to fund or perhaps even trigger a repayment requirement. Probably unlikely in this case but not impossible.
Worst effect of reduced share prices occurs if certain people have taken out a whole lot of them, leveraged them up and then they get hit with a margin call and are forced to sell. Then it becomes a "race for the exits" as everyone tries to sell with few buyers.
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It's too late to recover. Not all over but will dwindle down to natural self sustaining level.
After all the sell offs and outsourcing the financial side is still a mess.
Airlines are there to be state owned enterprises. To provide a service for the country's people, more so internally. Also to faciltate tourism and trade internationally. Not to make huge profits, to provide employment and create the overflow business that comes along with it. Duty free shops, post, airport concessions, care hire, motels etc.
You can't financially compare an airline to a coal mine, gold mine, steel mill, fish and chip shop, bank. There are in a category of their own.
The best option is for the govt to buy it back and rebuild it into an australian icon.
After all the sell offs and outsourcing the financial side is still a mess.
Airlines are there to be state owned enterprises. To provide a service for the country's people, more so internally. Also to faciltate tourism and trade internationally. Not to make huge profits, to provide employment and create the overflow business that comes along with it. Duty free shops, post, airport concessions, care hire, motels etc.
You can't financially compare an airline to a coal mine, gold mine, steel mill, fish and chip shop, bank. There are in a category of their own.
The best option is for the govt to buy it back and rebuild it into an australian icon.
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Is Qantas shorting its share price?
Can't believe this. Here is Joyce rubbishing his own company in front of an IATA conference.
And claiming Jetstar is subsidizing Qantas.
How much longer is this going to go on?
Qantas CEO trashes the brand in comments at IATA conference | Plane Talking
And claiming Jetstar is subsidizing Qantas.
How much longer is this going to go on?
Qantas CEO trashes the brand in comments at IATA conference | Plane Talking
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QF has been failing for a lot longer the current management has been there. The eye was not on the ball while the Texan group was trying to maximise profits, not for the airline but for themselves. They, the Texas group is gone now, there is no cheap credit out there.
I use it a lot as a passenger, sorry, but it is not much chop, it's nice because it's Ozzie but that is it.
If QF mainline still exists in 5 years, I would be surprised.
I use it a lot as a passenger, sorry, but it is not much chop, it's nice because it's Ozzie but that is it.
If QF mainline still exists in 5 years, I would be surprised.
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What needs to be understood, is that this sort of talk by Joyce & Clifford is deliberate.
By demonising the workforce in the media, and misrepresenting the truth about the current profitability of the Qantas international operation Joyce is seeking to deepen the current crisis to allow justification for further restructuring and offshoring.
A tactic attempted on numerous occasions in the US after deregulation in the 1970's - most notably by Frank Lorenzo at Eastern.
The problem is that this tactic has never worked. So much damage is inflicted on the brand that customers simply do not return.
Joyce has been quoted on multiple occasions that his business philosophy is that 'crisis equals opportunity". By misrepresenting the true financial position of the company, by bad mouthing his staff and product in order to drive the share price down further into the take over zone, Joyce is seeking to obscure blame for years of chronic mismanagement.
Im of the opinion that regardless, nothing can save Qantas mainline now. The real tragedy is that the staff are going to be blamed for its demise instead of the real culprits.
By demonising the workforce in the media, and misrepresenting the truth about the current profitability of the Qantas international operation Joyce is seeking to deepen the current crisis to allow justification for further restructuring and offshoring.
A tactic attempted on numerous occasions in the US after deregulation in the 1970's - most notably by Frank Lorenzo at Eastern.
The problem is that this tactic has never worked. So much damage is inflicted on the brand that customers simply do not return.
Joyce has been quoted on multiple occasions that his business philosophy is that 'crisis equals opportunity". By misrepresenting the true financial position of the company, by bad mouthing his staff and product in order to drive the share price down further into the take over zone, Joyce is seeking to obscure blame for years of chronic mismanagement.
Im of the opinion that regardless, nothing can save Qantas mainline now. The real tragedy is that the staff are going to be blamed for its demise instead of the real culprits.
Can't believe this. Here is Joyce rubbishing his own company in front of an IATA conference.
And claiming Jetstar is subsidizing Qantas.
And claiming Jetstar is subsidizing Qantas.
I doubt JQ would have ever made it if it wasn't part of QF
Joyce's comments, if reported correctly, are bizarre and inexplicable.
There is no fukcing way Qantas would even have ordered the A380, let alone Twenty of them, without the most detailed financial analysis of their return on investment it was possible to make - and that includes their cost of capital.
That analysis would have included a number of assumptions regarding fuel, maintenance and crewing costs and there would have been figures for inflation of costs as well.
That analysis would absolutely not contain an assumption that crewing costs would be reduced in constant dollar terms by a sustained campaign of workforce restructuring. That would be madness. Furthermore to make the statement that Joyce appears to have made, that the viability of the operation hangs on whether or not pilots maintain the purchasing power of their wages is simply lunacy!
Furthermore, judging by repeated accounts on Pprune, if Jetstar is profitable, it's because of massive cross subsidies from the mainline operations, there is no way the could have created the infrastructure themselves.
As I said before, what needs to be seen is the contribution analysis of the various segments of the corporation. Please note that Joyce and Chairman Clifford never say that that international is not profitable, they instead hide behind euphemisms such as "not making an acceptable return". This is just sophistry.
There is no fukcing way Qantas would even have ordered the A380, let alone Twenty of them, without the most detailed financial analysis of their return on investment it was possible to make - and that includes their cost of capital.
That analysis would have included a number of assumptions regarding fuel, maintenance and crewing costs and there would have been figures for inflation of costs as well.
That analysis would absolutely not contain an assumption that crewing costs would be reduced in constant dollar terms by a sustained campaign of workforce restructuring. That would be madness. Furthermore to make the statement that Joyce appears to have made, that the viability of the operation hangs on whether or not pilots maintain the purchasing power of their wages is simply lunacy!
Furthermore, judging by repeated accounts on Pprune, if Jetstar is profitable, it's because of massive cross subsidies from the mainline operations, there is no way the could have created the infrastructure themselves.
As I said before, what needs to be seen is the contribution analysis of the various segments of the corporation. Please note that Joyce and Chairman Clifford never say that that international is not profitable, they instead hide behind euphemisms such as "not making an acceptable return". This is just sophistry.
That's well put 'mainwheel' I agree (our Govt haven't got a clue so no answer there) but what we have here now is greed in it's ugliest form. Airlines are no longer 'pots of gold' for CEO's to come along destroy & pillage, Joyce (with his predecessor) is now realizing this & he's a desperate man............as Dowding once said during that famous war..........."must find more pilots or loose" (or words to that effect) Simply put must find an answer or we'll lose QF, the name will only exist in the history books.
Wmk2
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Please note that Joyce and Chairman Clifford never say that that international is not profitable, they instead hide behind euphemisms such as "not making an acceptable return". This is just sophistry.
Doesn't not "meeting its cost of capital" imply that it is still making a profit, just not as much of a return as required to justify the investment? Which conflicts with the quotes that QF Int is losing money.
In this morning’s reports by invited and hosted media the group’s CEO, Alan Joyce, says he is not going to spend any more money on “the premium international operation until they (start) to return their cost of capital” and will “reconsider new aircraft orders”
'holic:
This is what I meant by labelling QF Int'l a "legacy airline". No investment, "harvesting" which means running the asset into the ground, no investment in staff.
For what its worth, I'm now suspecting that the banker Boyz are setting up to flog off Mainline and licence the brand name to private interests. That would leave the shareholders with the wonderfully profitable, modern dynamic Jetstar domestic and International components, and they would be freed from this ugly millstone of mainline around their necks.
The Jetstar shareprice would recover...for a while.
The banker Boyz now start washing the mud off the now privately owned wrecked Holden ute that is Qantas International and, what do you know? Who would have thought? Why this isn't so bad a wreck at all, in fact we can see something silvery appearing from under the grime.....why this isn't a broken ute at all! It's a Rolls Royce cash making machine!!!!
Mr Joyce and the Board are starting to smell exactly like the previous Board at the time of the APA bid. I suspect that there is some ratfukcing going on.
If this is the case, why are the new 787s going to JQ SIN which has had a worse ROC than QF mainline? Also, I find it incredible that AJ justifies spending no more money on QF Int when part of the reason current returns are poor is because of lack of expenditure and sheer neglect.
For what its worth, I'm now suspecting that the banker Boyz are setting up to flog off Mainline and licence the brand name to private interests. That would leave the shareholders with the wonderfully profitable, modern dynamic Jetstar domestic and International components, and they would be freed from this ugly millstone of mainline around their necks.
The Jetstar shareprice would recover...for a while.
The banker Boyz now start washing the mud off the now privately owned wrecked Holden ute that is Qantas International and, what do you know? Who would have thought? Why this isn't so bad a wreck at all, in fact we can see something silvery appearing from under the grime.....why this isn't a broken ute at all! It's a Rolls Royce cash making machine!!!!
Mr Joyce and the Board are starting to smell exactly like the previous Board at the time of the APA bid. I suspect that there is some ratfukcing going on.
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Agreed. MkII version of the failed PE bid.
QAN again out performing the ASX this morning (using AJ's calculator that is)
QAN down 2.3% currently with the All Ords down 0.6%.
NB! Virgin's share price up 3.5%. Capital is voting and it is currently going VBA's way.
QAN again out performing the ASX this morning (using AJ's calculator that is)
QAN down 2.3% currently with the All Ords down 0.6%.
NB! Virgin's share price up 3.5%. Capital is voting and it is currently going VBA's way.
Last edited by ampclamp; 7th Jun 2011 at 01:51. Reason: added VBA's share price
Originally Posted by MOHIKAN
What needs to be understood, is that this sort of talk by Joyce & Clifford is deliberate.
