AIR NZ starts hiring
Why not Oz? 3 years ago when told to wait for Air NZ I bit the bullet and paid for a rating, subsequently moved to VB. Command is approx 3 years away where guys currently after tax earn above mid 200's NZD. All this and I'm a 2.5hr flight from NZ.
As an F/O its around 200k NZD.
As an F/O its around 200k NZD.
Last edited by On Guard; 13th Apr 2011 at 09:03.
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At present some guys have been S/O's for 7 years and still not senior enough for an A320 F/O slot. Time to a wide body F/O slot? who knows. When I started people complained how they waited 8 years for widebody 767 F/O job, followed by the comment...."but don't worry that will never happen again". It would be 10 years plus at the moment.
As far as all these guys reaching 65? true, there are many turning 65 but a high percentage of them won't be retiring.
As far as all these guys reaching 65? true, there are many turning 65 but a high percentage of them won't be retiring.
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Just looking at logbooks/seniority lists, you are right, there are guys who have done 7 years as S/Os before an A320 job......but all of them had the opportunity to have a "hands on" position as a 737 F/O if they had wanted it. Until very recently initial new-hire positions were either S/O 777/747/767 or F/O 737. Base salary is the same for all. Allowances and time off vary with fleet. There were plenty of guys who took the opportunity to switch from one to the other.....started on the 737 and bid over to an S/O, or started as an S/O and bid onto the 737. Horses for courses.
With the phase out of the 747 and 737, all new entrants will be S/Os as the payscale for an A320 F/O is higher than the S/O and 737. As a result, guys are bidding from S/O to A320 F/O. This will means some current 737 F/Os won't have seniority to retain an F/O position when the 737 is replaced by the A320, so they will end up as S/Os. Likewise there will be 737 skippers without the seniority for an A320 command, so they will end up somewhere else...possibly A320 RHS as some of them are very junior (or maybe F/O 767 at best)
The wild card in the pack is the oldies and when they decide to retire. That will create upward movement for everyone, and word is there may be quite a few in the next few years. The delay in the 787 has also thrown a spanner in the works as that would have stirred the bid list around a bit as well.
All I can say is give it time....remember, as everyone here has said, you don't join Air NZ for a quick command.....there are other places you can get that....Jetstar and Pac Blue if you want to stay in the country, numerous other places if you are happy to travel. The situation hasn't really changed for10 years, so it's nothing new. No-one can say they are disappointed because movement is slower than they expected, because it's no slower than 10 years ago!
Meanwhile, there are other advantages to being employed by the National Carrier....generally stable company, reasonable pay and conditions, career progression (admittedly slow), good aircraft and route structure, choice between short/long haul (eventually) and pretty reasonable people to fly with (in general) and even the option of "lifestyle commuting". It's not all bad!
With the phase out of the 747 and 737, all new entrants will be S/Os as the payscale for an A320 F/O is higher than the S/O and 737. As a result, guys are bidding from S/O to A320 F/O. This will means some current 737 F/Os won't have seniority to retain an F/O position when the 737 is replaced by the A320, so they will end up as S/Os. Likewise there will be 737 skippers without the seniority for an A320 command, so they will end up somewhere else...possibly A320 RHS as some of them are very junior (or maybe F/O 767 at best)
The wild card in the pack is the oldies and when they decide to retire. That will create upward movement for everyone, and word is there may be quite a few in the next few years. The delay in the 787 has also thrown a spanner in the works as that would have stirred the bid list around a bit as well.
All I can say is give it time....remember, as everyone here has said, you don't join Air NZ for a quick command.....there are other places you can get that....Jetstar and Pac Blue if you want to stay in the country, numerous other places if you are happy to travel. The situation hasn't really changed for10 years, so it's nothing new. No-one can say they are disappointed because movement is slower than they expected, because it's no slower than 10 years ago!
Meanwhile, there are other advantages to being employed by the National Carrier....generally stable company, reasonable pay and conditions, career progression (admittedly slow), good aircraft and route structure, choice between short/long haul (eventually) and pretty reasonable people to fly with (in general) and even the option of "lifestyle commuting". It's not all bad!
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Horserun I hope the national carrier does not pass over Link guys who have stayed and remained loyal to the group in favour of those who have left and bought jet time with the opposition. Having said that there are a few Yes letter holders who were told it was OK so went off and did it. It would suck if they were hampered returning to the group.
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By the looks of it Horse leaving the Links to get Jet time is the best option. At least then you have a qualification for the sandpit if the call does not come. If you stay in the Links your options are very limited.
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Nepotism sux!
Preferred training providers, preferred applicants given priority interviews etc.
Obviously some string pullers high up in NZ must have young'uns coming through.
Preferred training providers, preferred applicants given priority interviews etc.
Obviously some string pullers high up in NZ must have young'uns coming through.
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Black Snapper
Having read the email to all group pilots, I doubt thats the case. Anyway, if you have a young'un coming through yourself, get them in to one of these preferred training outfits.
"Who you know" has always been a large part of this game we play. Its how the world goes round and aint going away any time soon.
I have been passed over in favour of others' sons, just like many others here. I have also been offered jobs on a "who you know" basis as well. Goes both ways.
Having read the email to all group pilots, I doubt thats the case. Anyway, if you have a young'un coming through yourself, get them in to one of these preferred training outfits.
"Who you know" has always been a large part of this game we play. Its how the world goes round and aint going away any time soon.
I have been passed over in favour of others' sons, just like many others here. I have also been offered jobs on a "who you know" basis as well. Goes both ways.
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Hey heard a rumour recently that Air NZ is trying to do something about the number of commuting long haul pilots they now have on their books. The Rugby World Cup has them worried about whether their crew will be able to make it to work when load factors go through the roof during the 6 or so weeks of the event. Supposedly this has been the catalyst to revisiting the whole commuting/out-of-base-domiciled-pilot issue. Rumoured options include making new-hires sign agreements to reside in Akl and restricting staff travel (for those using it to get to work). Apparently ALPA management have been told about this project but as of yet nothing has been communicated to the troops. Could be a way of throwing the cat amongst the pigeons as the company wants the pilots to give up the 35 in 7 rule as well as adopt a longevity pay scheme. Can anyone shed any light?
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Staff travel is always frought but played carefully can work. Employees have never been able to use high load factors as an excuse for not showing.
Short of withdrawing staff travel completely it would be virtually impossible to police. Everyone will just register a mates AKL address.
Short of withdrawing staff travel completely it would be virtually impossible to police. Everyone will just register a mates AKL address.
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Have the current Conditional offer of employment contract
Page 3 ...
By accepting the terms of this offer you agree to reside in Auckland.
Not sure if that is just for the Type Rating??? suspect not
Page 3 ...
By accepting the terms of this offer you agree to reside in Auckland.
Not sure if that is just for the Type Rating??? suspect not