AIR NZ starts hiring
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As QF have shown, any airline is one Board meeting away from a radical change in direction. Those who joined QF in the last five years as SO's may have thought they had a job for life. Maybe... maybe not.
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Blah Blah Blah....
Well I'm one, and I've been at EK for considerably less time than that...
Just to clarify..our place is one road back from the beach at Whanga, we use it as an escape from the heat of the sandpit, plus it also provides the Wife, Kids, and myself a great bit of kiwiana etc etc when we need it. The place also pays for nearly half of its costs when rented out over the summer..easter...labour weekend etc etc.
There is NO was I could have afforded to do this living in NZ and paying the tax I'd have to on an equilvalent salary.
Goodluck to those going on the 777, its a great jet......I told myself that as I thumped it into NZCH the other day..
Well I'm one, and I've been at EK for considerably less time than that...
Just to clarify..our place is one road back from the beach at Whanga, we use it as an escape from the heat of the sandpit, plus it also provides the Wife, Kids, and myself a great bit of kiwiana etc etc when we need it. The place also pays for nearly half of its costs when rented out over the summer..easter...labour weekend etc etc.
There is NO was I could have afforded to do this living in NZ and paying the tax I'd have to on an equilvalent salary.
Goodluck to those going on the 777, its a great jet......I told myself that as I thumped it into NZCH the other day..
Last edited by haughtney1; 11th Apr 2011 at 05:24.
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You might be surprised Blah blah, I know another one who's just bought 600 acres of prime south waikato dairy country and he's only been about 5 years in the desert as well. I'd put good money on him being home for good within another few years.
Trouble is of course that it's hypothetical for these Link guys because you still can't get into EK without some bus or boeing time already, so the boys & girls are double screwed - goalposts shifted by Air NZ when they thought they were on a "yes" letter, and no jet time they can leverage to go overseas and make their fortunes either.
There's still CX but that is a young bloke's game as well, the problem is that the longer these guys sit around getting their chain yanked and waiting for start dates, the window of opportunity will slip them by.
And I hold my hand up, I did 3 years in the sandpit and then bailed out because I hated it and so did my family. Wasn't with EK but. Now I'm on contract in Asia, but I still reckon I'll be able to get home with my financial future pretty well sorted before my kids hit double digits.
At least I don't have to go away on 14 day London trips, that sounds like a recipe for divorce even worse than the sandpit if you ask me
Trouble is of course that it's hypothetical for these Link guys because you still can't get into EK without some bus or boeing time already, so the boys & girls are double screwed - goalposts shifted by Air NZ when they thought they were on a "yes" letter, and no jet time they can leverage to go overseas and make their fortunes either.
There's still CX but that is a young bloke's game as well, the problem is that the longer these guys sit around getting their chain yanked and waiting for start dates, the window of opportunity will slip them by.
And I hold my hand up, I did 3 years in the sandpit and then bailed out because I hated it and so did my family. Wasn't with EK but. Now I'm on contract in Asia, but I still reckon I'll be able to get home with my financial future pretty well sorted before my kids hit double digits.
At least I don't have to go away on 14 day London trips, that sounds like a recipe for divorce even worse than the sandpit if you ask me
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Trouble is of course that it's hypothetical for these Link guys because you still can't get into EK without some bus or boeing time already, so the boys & girls are double screwed
Another issue is, do you want your kids growing up in the desert and speaking with funny accents
Surely Doobye isn't that bad ?
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Catch22
Air NZ is a Catch22 type of job, you can live in NZ, which we would all love to do, but not really be able to afford the "lifestyle" we all allude to being highly paid professionals(yes,yes, 
I know).
OR, one can move overseas in search of the dollar and sacrifice the "full time" lifestyle in NZ by being able to afford the lifestyle, just not be there full time to enjoy it. And I'd be very very surprised if Air NZ management are not fully aware of this fact.
I really don't believe that anyone's choice is right or wrong, as for me, if I could work for Air NZ, I think I'd enjoy the job, I certainly did enjoy my time with Air Nelson. However, I have to say, my current job is very interesting and with a large range of destinations, the challenges keep me on my toes, not to mention the pay is pretty good.
To each his own, and as long as you and your family are happy with your choice, then that's the right choice for you.
Nosey
PS blah blah, you've obviously never been to Zinc.....
I know). OR, one can move overseas in search of the dollar and sacrifice the "full time" lifestyle in NZ by being able to afford the lifestyle, just not be there full time to enjoy it. And I'd be very very surprised if Air NZ management are not fully aware of this fact.
I really don't believe that anyone's choice is right or wrong, as for me, if I could work for Air NZ, I think I'd enjoy the job, I certainly did enjoy my time with Air Nelson. However, I have to say, my current job is very interesting and with a large range of destinations, the challenges keep me on my toes, not to mention the pay is pretty good.
To each his own, and as long as you and your family are happy with your choice, then that's the right choice for you.
Nosey
PS blah blah, you've obviously never been to Zinc.....
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Air NZ is the "perfect job" if your a pilot who wants to live in New Zealand.
Many people are caught up with time to promotion, but why? with Air NZ you can have the dream lifestyle from day one? I work for Air NZ as an SO on the 777, I know ive got a long time before i get upgraded, but ive accepted that and to be honest it doesnt both me. The job as an SO alone is fantastic....... 10-15 days off in NZ a month, 6 figure salary, travel the world staying at the best hotels getting fantastic allowances, great bunch of pilots to fly with and the ability to almost build your roster through the bidding system (within reason!). If your looking for a job that will give you the best lifestyle then this would be hard to go past.... Sure i wont make as much money as the guys at EK etc, but im much happier here. I had the chance to fly for CX, and could have chased EK and the middle east, but im glad i didnt. It might take me 20 years to get my command on a widebody, but im going to really enjoy my time getting there, and when i do...... I will be on a 300k+ salary, 7 weeks leave a year, high bid and day off satisfaction and the best part is i havnt had to leave home to get there. I appreciate everyones case is different, and that some guys will want to chase the dough overseas. Good on them for doing it, they will reap the rewards for sticking it out, i just hope they are happy.
As for the current movement in Air NZ...... There are 8 guys who have got starts for May and June on the 777, judging by the current situation there isnt likely to be anymore this year. Its been said earlier in this thread, but i will say it again- From now on ALL pilots will enter the company as SOs (so dont holdout for a 737 slot!), most if not all of these starts will be on the 777. This is due to the phaseout of the 733 and the 744. The recruit to group concept and cadetship scheme are new to NZ and have the potential to change the dynamics of NZs professional aviation scene. My concern is that if RTG and cadetships gain momentum then it is likely that Air NZ will source all its pilots via these avenues and a generation of current Link pilots will miss out on the opportunity to ever fly Air NZ mainline. NOTE: RTG will employ pilots directly into the Air NZ link group (eagle/nelson/cook) but i believe it is likely these guys will be earmarked for Air NZ mainline from day one and will bunny-hop the guys currently there. I hope i am wrong, but its fairly clear the company is keen to get this schemes up and running.
All the best to the guys on "yes" letters, i hope you get starts soon.
My 2 cents worth.....
Many people are caught up with time to promotion, but why? with Air NZ you can have the dream lifestyle from day one? I work for Air NZ as an SO on the 777, I know ive got a long time before i get upgraded, but ive accepted that and to be honest it doesnt both me. The job as an SO alone is fantastic....... 10-15 days off in NZ a month, 6 figure salary, travel the world staying at the best hotels getting fantastic allowances, great bunch of pilots to fly with and the ability to almost build your roster through the bidding system (within reason!). If your looking for a job that will give you the best lifestyle then this would be hard to go past.... Sure i wont make as much money as the guys at EK etc, but im much happier here. I had the chance to fly for CX, and could have chased EK and the middle east, but im glad i didnt. It might take me 20 years to get my command on a widebody, but im going to really enjoy my time getting there, and when i do...... I will be on a 300k+ salary, 7 weeks leave a year, high bid and day off satisfaction and the best part is i havnt had to leave home to get there. I appreciate everyones case is different, and that some guys will want to chase the dough overseas. Good on them for doing it, they will reap the rewards for sticking it out, i just hope they are happy.
As for the current movement in Air NZ...... There are 8 guys who have got starts for May and June on the 777, judging by the current situation there isnt likely to be anymore this year. Its been said earlier in this thread, but i will say it again- From now on ALL pilots will enter the company as SOs (so dont holdout for a 737 slot!), most if not all of these starts will be on the 777. This is due to the phaseout of the 733 and the 744. The recruit to group concept and cadetship scheme are new to NZ and have the potential to change the dynamics of NZs professional aviation scene. My concern is that if RTG and cadetships gain momentum then it is likely that Air NZ will source all its pilots via these avenues and a generation of current Link pilots will miss out on the opportunity to ever fly Air NZ mainline. NOTE: RTG will employ pilots directly into the Air NZ link group (eagle/nelson/cook) but i believe it is likely these guys will be earmarked for Air NZ mainline from day one and will bunny-hop the guys currently there. I hope i am wrong, but its fairly clear the company is keen to get this schemes up and running.
All the best to the guys on "yes" letters, i hope you get starts soon.
My 2 cents worth.....
Last edited by SkySurfin; 11th Apr 2011 at 22:28.
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Money vs lifestyle.... Will take lifestyle any day. See a lot of posts here talking about how guys want to save up and retire at 50-55. So let's say you join EK at 30, so are you saying you are going to waste 20 years looking forward to retirement? What do you think retirement is? Some heaven? Your going to waste 20 years of your life, your prime years, waiting to become old? and you are going to come back to nz with your teenage kids who don't have any mates in nz, and only been here on vacation, what are they going to do? In my opinion spending 20 years here on "lower pay" is better than anywhere else in the world, and while you "thump" your 777-300ER into amazing destinations every day, what is your wife doing at home? Sitting in your "mansion" in the middle of the desert pulling her hair out. Sorry but I'm not that selfish to do that to someone I love.*And while I don't work in nz yet, I'm definatetly coming back
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Nosegear - Zinc? Dunno what you are talking about.
Not saying Air NZ is perfect but as I said earlier crazy is as crazy does, and for me staying in NZ with ANZ is the least crazy option. Going to the ME would be horrible for me, spent too much time there and never want to go back. I just have to laugh though when guys jump on an ANZ thread and start bagging the outfit in comparison to EK. As someone else said earlier, just look at all the threads talking about how bad it is in the ME, but try to find one from an ANZ guy who is comparably unhappy.
Each to their own.
Blah
Not saying Air NZ is perfect but as I said earlier crazy is as crazy does, and for me staying in NZ with ANZ is the least crazy option. Going to the ME would be horrible for me, spent too much time there and never want to go back. I just have to laugh though when guys jump on an ANZ thread and start bagging the outfit in comparison to EK. As someone else said earlier, just look at all the threads talking about how bad it is in the ME, but try to find one from an ANZ guy who is comparably unhappy.
Each to their own.
Blah
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As you said Blah Blah, each to their own, although to be fair, I think I said in a previous Air NZ thread, my opinion of the the place based on friends I have there is very similar to yours, its just that when I started flying there was f#ck all chance of even a link job..so in the absence of opportunities in NZ..etc.
Sassy91, I see from your profile you are 20, and reading between the lines you appear to want to convey the impression of having an old head on young shoulders....so heres the benefit of little more experience in the industry than you, along with probably a more rounded opinion.
No I'm not wasting 20 years, I'm enjoying them...golf, travel (Seychelles, Male so far..with a trek up Killaminjaro planned in the not to distant future). My wife has the luxury of being a stay at home mum to our kids (try doing that on one income in NZ living in the main centres with any kind of mortgage) and thats merely a snap shot.
Well with the benefit of a bit of life experience in another part of the world..I would expect they'd have very few if any problems intergrating, in fact I'd go further and suggest they would appreciate all that NZ has to offer.
As before Sassy, shes a stay at home mum and loving it, thats not to say she likes the summer..far from from it, but thats why we have a place in Whanga along with open invitations to places in the UK, SA, Thailand, the US, Canada, HKG, Switzerland and of course Oz...
So its really about how you make a situation work for you..rather than dismissing people out of hand because you disagree.
FWIW, at this stage I'll be out of here in less than 10 years, and will be in my mid 40's.
You never know..I might apply to Air NZ
Lastly re the PPrune moaning, well a quick check of the number of posters who serially moan wine etc etc, its about 10 guys.....out of 2600.
Once again, best of luck to all the guys/girls who get start dates at Air NZ...see you on the ramp or in the customs lines at AKL, CHC, BNE, MEL, SYD, PER, HKG, PEK, LAX, SFO, LHR and eventually YVR
Sassy91, I see from your profile you are 20, and reading between the lines you appear to want to convey the impression of having an old head on young shoulders....so heres the benefit of little more experience in the industry than you, along with probably a more rounded opinion.
let's say you join EK at 30, so are you saying you are going to waste 20 years looking forward to retirement? What do you think retirement is? Some heaven?
and you are going to come back to nz with your teenage kids who don't have any mates in nz, and only been here on vacation, what are they going to do?
what is your wife doing at home? Sitting in your "mansion" in the middle of the desert pulling her hair out. Sorry but I'm not that selfish to do that to someone I love
So its really about how you make a situation work for you..rather than dismissing people out of hand because you disagree.
FWIW, at this stage I'll be out of here in less than 10 years, and will be in my mid 40's.
You never know..I might apply to Air NZ
Lastly re the PPrune moaning, well a quick check of the number of posters who serially moan wine etc etc, its about 10 guys.....out of 2600.
Once again, best of luck to all the guys/girls who get start dates at Air NZ...see you on the ramp or in the customs lines at AKL, CHC, BNE, MEL, SYD, PER, HKG, PEK, LAX, SFO, LHR and eventually YVR
Last edited by haughtney1; 12th Apr 2011 at 03:55.
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I'm pleased everyone is happy where they are...what more could one ask?
The Air NZ RTG policy is one that should be utilised to allow a flow through for Link guys who want to go onto the bigger iron. If that's not how it's going to work, then guys have a right to be aggrieved.
Has a combined seniorty list been mooted? That's something for the Union guys to consider. As always, there would be a major excrement scrap over who fits where initially, but once it was in place it would surely give everyone a chance to get the position they want...eventually. Hell, there may even be some 65+ 747 guys who want to see out their years as a Dash skipper in Nelson or Tauranga! It seemed to work for the Freedom guys who got "integrated"....although there may be some short term pain for some of the ex skippers when their "sweetheart deal" runs out.
Maybe something worth discussing on those "long" sectors.
Air NZ already offers the choice of long haul or short haul for those who prefer lengthy days off or most nights at home. Long haul also suits the "commuters" who can take advantage of the cheaper or alternative lifestyle downcountry in return for time and money spent getting to and from work. As stated above, the money as an S/O is far from minimum wage and the company is as secure as any, and more so than most...so future prospects aren't all bad. There are many advantages to living in NZ....I know enough pilots overseas to appreciate that, but the price is lower salaries and longer...much longer....time to command. Having said that, who knows? There are 737 skippers who got those jobs with less than 4 years in the company, so things can vary.
Look at the options and choose what you prefer....the expat life isn't for everyone, but it can have it's rewards. All depends on which side you like your bread buttered.
The Air NZ RTG policy is one that should be utilised to allow a flow through for Link guys who want to go onto the bigger iron. If that's not how it's going to work, then guys have a right to be aggrieved.
Has a combined seniorty list been mooted? That's something for the Union guys to consider. As always, there would be a major excrement scrap over who fits where initially, but once it was in place it would surely give everyone a chance to get the position they want...eventually. Hell, there may even be some 65+ 747 guys who want to see out their years as a Dash skipper in Nelson or Tauranga! It seemed to work for the Freedom guys who got "integrated"....although there may be some short term pain for some of the ex skippers when their "sweetheart deal" runs out.
Maybe something worth discussing on those "long" sectors.
Air NZ already offers the choice of long haul or short haul for those who prefer lengthy days off or most nights at home. Long haul also suits the "commuters" who can take advantage of the cheaper or alternative lifestyle downcountry in return for time and money spent getting to and from work. As stated above, the money as an S/O is far from minimum wage and the company is as secure as any, and more so than most...so future prospects aren't all bad. There are many advantages to living in NZ....I know enough pilots overseas to appreciate that, but the price is lower salaries and longer...much longer....time to command. Having said that, who knows? There are 737 skippers who got those jobs with less than 4 years in the company, so things can vary.
Look at the options and choose what you prefer....the expat life isn't for everyone, but it can have it's rewards. All depends on which side you like your bread buttered.
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Has a combined seniorty list been mooted?
The theory so far I've heard is at mainlines next negotiation (2012) the Link group seniority list will be added to the bottom of mainlines seniority.
No idea how they will combine the Link group's lists but possibly some caveat about not being able to bid using the GOP for a couple years or something similar.
A GOP number for the regional drivers will be required before any recruit to group concept will be accepted by ALPA.
I would imagine the GOP number will based on your staff travel joining date. So if you have stayed with the group and not left you will have a higher number than those who have or started later. For the regional drivers everybody will be given their number based on this and regardless of their current position or company. A line will be drawn in the sand for each division of the group so nobody can jump you on the seniority list for a command ect.
It is actually more straight forward than it sounds and would help all parts of the company retain pilots, experience and reduce training costs. It will also allow the recruit to group to happen without anybody who has shown loyalty being shafted.
Will it happen???? In all my years with the group this is the closest I have seen it, but I suggest you all believe nothing till it is signed.
I would imagine the GOP number will based on your staff travel joining date. So if you have stayed with the group and not left you will have a higher number than those who have or started later. For the regional drivers everybody will be given their number based on this and regardless of their current position or company. A line will be drawn in the sand for each division of the group so nobody can jump you on the seniority list for a command ect.
It is actually more straight forward than it sounds and would help all parts of the company retain pilots, experience and reduce training costs. It will also allow the recruit to group to happen without anybody who has shown loyalty being shafted.
Will it happen???? In all my years with the group this is the closest I have seen it, but I suggest you all believe nothing till it is signed.
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A GOP list would be great. But a GOP list assumes everyone has meet the criteria.
What we have seen recently is the re-ranking of those on Yes letters due to changed criteria. When captains higher on the yes letter list are re-ranked below fos then the suggestion is that command time in the Links is less worthy than some other criteria. This is in total contradiction to a previous memo put out saying to remain in the Links and get command time.
I believe we will see a GOP list at Air NZ but bids will be based not just on your number but also whether you met HRs criteria. Those joining the group from now on will do so via RTG recruiting and will be deemed worthy by HR. Those currently in the group will have no idea where they stand unless HR tell them.
In the end its Air NZs sand pit just tell us the rules for playing in it.
What we have seen recently is the re-ranking of those on Yes letters due to changed criteria. When captains higher on the yes letter list are re-ranked below fos then the suggestion is that command time in the Links is less worthy than some other criteria. This is in total contradiction to a previous memo put out saying to remain in the Links and get command time.
I believe we will see a GOP list at Air NZ but bids will be based not just on your number but also whether you met HRs criteria. Those joining the group from now on will do so via RTG recruiting and will be deemed worthy by HR. Those currently in the group will have no idea where they stand unless HR tell them.
In the end its Air NZs sand pit just tell us the rules for playing in it.