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Old 22nd Jul 2014, 11:06
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this qantas guy who is being touted as a very respected australian aviator
he wouldn't happen to be the qantas requester of all things synchronised with easa so that qantas could get maint done in the east european shops would he?

heeees not going to get much respect.
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Old 22nd Jul 2014, 11:16
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this qantas guy who is being touted as a very respected australian aviator he wouldn't happen to be the qantas requester of all things synchronised with easa so that qantas could get maint done in the east european shops would he?
It would be very unusual for anybody at QF to engage in such a covert plan to achieve self served interests and receive highly lucrative bonuses! Surely not? Besides, Australian aviation revolves around the Roo. All Joyce has to do is say to CAsA "we would like EASA because it works out better for us" and Fort Fumble would approve, with the blessings of its Masters of course.
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Old 22nd Jul 2014, 11:45
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Back to the thread and Beaker

Does anyone know what sort of life jackets NGA had on the night? Also if Israeli Ind have changed the spec on the aircraft regarding the raft? Do they still have the spec or is it in Canada or the US now?
Would have been nice to know in the report beaker!
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Old 22nd Jul 2014, 12:08
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Does anyone know what sort of life jackets NGA had on the night? Also if Israeli Ind have changed the spec on the aircraft regarding the raft? Do they still have the spec or is it in Canada or the US now?
Would have been nice to know in the report beaker!
Not sure, I just phoned him and all I could hear in the background was the sound of a coffee machine, and when I posed the question to him he responded with "mi mi.....mi......mi mi mi", so go figure, I sure as hell couldn't understand him!
Either way it is irrelevant as ATsB have already concluded that the ditching was a minor occurrence, a glitch in the matrix, nothing of real interest to be found. Just like Lockhart....the pack of fools led by a bumbling nupty.
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Old 22nd Jul 2014, 12:22
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Beaker wisdom??

I wonder if he has the current version of ICAO Annnex 13 with him?? He may be using the edition that Fawcett pineappled him with! That was a great day to watch that smug prick Beaker, with the wrong edition.
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Old 22nd Jul 2014, 12:53
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Just like Lockhart....the pack of fools led by a bumbling nupty.
You sure about that 004? Go back and have a look who was in charge during that investigation.
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Old 22nd Jul 2014, 20:31
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Are those MoUse droppings?

Sarcs " Certainly is a lot to like about the NTSB/TSBC board system and it is obvious that they are truly operating independently and unencumbered by the regulator.
Ayup: and for mine, one of the most impressive aspects of the NTSB, FAA and operator response to SR A-14-022 is the easy balance of tension between potentially conflicted parties. The approach taken was – Hey, we do have a problem; and, they all rolled up their sleeves and went to work on a solution. That is the very healthy attitude I would like to see Australia adopt; NTSB identified some issues; FAA fixed those issues and the Operator embraced the fix – job done, no foul, no penalty, just an improved safety outcome. Well done. No aberrations there..

Lockhart was a watershed (tick for Lefty). But, whoever was 'running it', it is the top of Quinn's pendulum swing, Aherne amplified it and AIPA defined it. The pendulum arc tracks the diminishment of ATSB; from Lockhart through Whyalla to Pel Air. The take on the MoU same thing; the notion that the Miller report has been progressively manipulated almost to the point where ATSB may, essentially, be 'told' what the required outcome of a report is to be and they cooperate, has merit. The few published responses to the WLR indicate that, almost everyone is opposed to CASA being trusted with ATSB information, until some maturity is achieved and confidence restored that is...

It's part of an issue which must be addressed by the new DAS, down at grass roots level. There are several letters floating about in which CASA insist that built into a company operations manual must be a statement which 'mandates' that a copy of any report (IRM or RRM) provided to ATSB must be sent to CASA, at the same time...'nuff sed.

Now is the right time for the TSBC report to be released, warts and all (if any). We have a positive review, a change of DAS, the support of a very plugged in Senate committee and a once in a life time 'true' expert in David Fawcett to 'balance' that change, there's even some unity in industry. There has never been a better time, nor opportunity for significant change to happen; and the next chance may be a long, long wait away.

Lets just get this done...Now would be good; right now better still.

Toot toot.

PS. Slippery Pole dancing video gone viral on U-bend tube – lurv the outfits...
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Old 23rd Jul 2014, 01:27
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Extract received by me from Letter Truss dated 06MAY2014

QUOTE: "In relation to the retrieval of the VH-NGA flight recorders, it was considered that the data would offer little information directly relevant to the key safety issues in the investigation that were not already available from other sources. In addition the ATSB advised that any information obtained would not likely lead to any commensurately significant safety learning or improvement in transport safety." QUOTE.


If the likely significant safety learning advice from the Ukraine disaster is not to fly through war zones, why is everybody so focused on the FDR's of that aircraft? Isn't there enough available evidence to identify a lesson to be learnt and react to that? I'm only quoting from the Truss letter. One should also ask why the FDR was installed in VH-NGA in the first place.


Dolan wouldn't be able to identify a stolen Ukrainian BUK missile from a Russian one and neither can the Americans or Australian Politicians.
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Old 23rd Jul 2014, 10:25
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Beaker would think a BUK is a strong blend of Ukrainian coffee! Fool. What a low in the proud history of aviation in this country having that twit up front. How did it get so bad, and why is he still there??
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Old 25th Jul 2014, 21:41
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More bounce for your Buck.

The MoP thing is a fascinating puzzle, but I'm not convinced Fawcett could raise the issues – directly – I expect the proper form was followed; Heff and Sterle are 'joint' chairs. That only leaves the independent NX, perhaps he has different matters for consideration, dunno. Either way – it's got some pretty wise heads being scratched. All kinds of bets on – from Pot plants to A380 ratings. Information is hard to nail down, and even the traditional offers of bags of sweets or nights with nubile sisters are having no effect. Curse it...

Jinglie "I wonder if he has the current version of ICAO Annnex 13 with him??
Oh yes, that was a grave error, trying to out fox Fawcett, who actually had the correct version. That one smart arsed bluff, for me, clearly defined the Beaker character. Game call though; pulling the tail of a man the calibre of Fawcett is not for the feint hearted. But, I reckon it's the Annexe 19 bluff Beaker needs to be watching out for – I hear the FAA/ICAO are calling bollocks on compliance and are not happy campers. Poor old Beaker – needs a reality fix. He provokes the same reaction as the Gillard creature, cringe (or change channels). When MH 370 was in the news - the boss of the AMSA was interviewed and it was a pleasure to see a calm, honest, competent, professional individual doing the best job possible. Then Houston pops up, and again the same thing; integrity and competence writ large. Same again with the two fellah's despatched to the Ukraine, rock solid. It's way beyond my humble skills to sketch a comparison between Beaker to these professionals.

IMO - Between CASA and Beaker people like Ben Cook and Mal Christie have been treated abominably by those with very few qualifications and much less integrity. Any accountant can run the books, hell a qualified book keeper could do it. We have no need of these administrative types to be running critical safety investigations or managing essential organisations. Look at the buggers muddle Pel Air turned out to be if you think they should.

Would a Houston have recovered the Pel Air black box?

Would a Ben Cook have smudged the ledger to make the page add up?

Would either have manipulated facts and ignored evidence?

Would they tell the world about the life vest issues?

Yet it smugly stands there, the Beaker; reappointed and with enough neck to slither in front of a camera at every opportunity and flap his jaw. Perhaps there is a case for military or AMSA intervention if the minuscule can't see where the ATSB is heading. Why persist with Beaker?, why does he stay where no one, bar the co conspirators want him? Why do we keep him, let some one else mind the tea money while all the real, qualified talent and front line investigators have gone to the Ukraine. I'd bet a beer that when they come home, Beaker will be puffing out his chest, capering about the place picking up the kudos crumbs, like a puppy at a BBQ. It's disgusting, truly, really, absolutely disgraceful.

Selah..-.-
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Old 26th Jul 2014, 01:38
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Snoop Third MoP sponsor: The case of the shrinking Attachment B??

Kharon at post #1062 of Truss thread said:
There are three (in total) Matters of Privilege before the committee. No one knows who or what is involved, clues are hard to find, information even harder. This is unfair of course, the public service has a duty to leak, but, alas, not this time. There are a few well founded speculative arguments, my personal choice is the tricky business with the Pel Air inquiry, which drags White and Chambers into the funny coloured light of the MoU, unsigned NCN, the gross insults to Ben Cook and Mal Christie which led to resignation. Couple of bright, highly qualified, skilled, dedicated honourable men cannot tolerate or be associated with an aberration such as CAIR 09/3 and other 'manipulated' documents. If the Senate have uncovered any sort of skulduggery, there'll be hell to pay and ferry fares to find.
Three MoPs on the Senators APH dining room table, I can only count two “K”, but then (after reading on) the penny dropped. Although I am not sure if it counts as a contempt of the Senate but could be significant in the running of the ‘MoP stakes’...

Backtracking a little: Before the RRAT committee finally handed down its report and even before FF discretely made their 01 March 2013 sup submission, I was happily trolling through the Senate Submissions webpage when I came across an interesting discrepancy. However due the late hour of the AAI inquiry proceedings, I was otherwise distracted and was unable to return to scratch the itch. It wasn’t till I read the late FF sup submission that I experienced a déjà vu moment.

To begin with here is an extract from the 2004 MoU & 2010 MoU that is of significance:




It can be seen that besides the addition of para 9.3 the two MoUs basically remain in effect for the same period of time, with the same conditions for varying, extending or terminating. From that one has to question how it was possible for the PelAir parallel investigation to have been conducted under the guidance of the 2010 MoU, when it was yet to be officially executed. Maybe there had been an ‘exchange of letters’ between Beaker & McComic which had terminated the ’04 MoU. However that would have meant that such agreement between parties would have necessitated bringing forward the official execution of the ’10 MoU and we know that didn’t happen. We also now know that FF were at least operating to the DRAFT version of the ’10 MoU in conducting their PelAir parallel investigation...

From the infamous (previously hidden) CAIR 09/3 report:


The veracity of which was backed up by the 01 March 2013 FF sup submission:



Now I know that there is ample political/legal wriggle room in all this and that the MoUs are not in fact legally binding, but it does bring me to my déjà vu moment i.e. the mysterious 3rd MoP.

Here is the original FF PelAir submission attachment (B, C & D): Original
Which you can see had 102 pages & contained the 1996, 2001, 2004, 2010 MoUs & the infamous CAIR 09/3 report.

Now here is what is supposed to be the same document that continues to be readily available off the Senate PelAir inquiry webpage: Current (B, C & D i.e. Attachment 5). Except the attachment has shrunk and is now only 82 pages?? Some may think that this is merely the RRAT committee Secretariat cleaning up the files (i.e. getting rid of blank pages or double ups). However I seriously don’t think that any officer of the Secretariat, no matter how OCD they may be, would even contemplate altering a published & protected under Parliamentary privilege document, it would be akin to career suicide.

So what pages are now missing??

Ok page one still lists the contents of attachment B – CHECK
Then we have the 1996 MoU till page 20 – CHECK
However then the ‘current’ doc jumps to attachment C, completely omitting the 2001 & 2004 MoU...

So there you go, has a person or persons unknown (& for reasons unknown) deliberately altered a Parliamentary document ?(i.e. a possible third MoP??)...

Q/ The next question is why?? After all the MoU is not a legally binding document.

Q/ Does it matter?? Probably not but considering the timeframe for this deliberate act (between the dates 15 February ‘13 to 01 March ‘13) and some of the references contained within the FF sup submission, I have some strong suspicions on motive…

Moving along on to the other part of the “K” quote (plus his above post) on the matter of Ben Cook. In the above extract from the FF sup submission at subpara 2.12 it mentions that there were 4 CAsA officers tasked with conducting the PelAir accident investigation. What the submission failed to mention was that one of those officers was in fact Ben Cook (reference page 3 of CAIR 09/3). Which is quite interesting given the obvious antagonism towards BC on display in subpara 2.5 – 2.10 (see HERE)

Extract subpara 2.9 – 2.10



Presumably (as stated in 2.10) BC was afforded the same courtesy to comment on the DRAFT version of CAIR 09/3, which made the following cursory statement in reference to the comprehensive & rather damning findings of the PelAir FRMS that were published in the FRMS Special Audit report (authored by BC & MC):



Put yourself in the shoes of BC at the time & you were the FF Manager of Human Factors and resident guru on FRMS, who was currently sitting on the ICAO Fatigue Risk Management Systems Task Force (FRMSTF) (see his CV here). And you were faced with the prospect of having to sign off on that report, what would you do?? Personally I’d jump ship and that is exactly what BC did and as they say the rest is history:
Experience
Deputy Director Human & Systems Performance
Directorate of Defence Aviation & Air Force Safety
August 2010 – Present (4 years)

Human Factors, Safety Analysis, Safety Education & Training
Air Safety Investigator
Directorate of Defence Aviation & Air Force Safety
August 2010 – Present (4 years)

Manager Human Factors
Civil Aviation Safety Authority
October 2007 – July 2010 (2 years 10 months)

Human Factors Field Operations
Airservices Australia
June 2006 – September 2007 (1 year 4 months)

Pilot, Flying Instructor, Aviation Safety Officer
Royal Australian Air Force
May 1991 – May 2006 (15 years 1 month) Various
Observation: All woads seem to lead to that wascily, wabbit Wodger’s wabbit hole, therefore I am now leaning towards Wodger’s Wocket as my personal favourite for the ‘MoP Stakes’..

MTF…

Last edited by Sarcs; 26th Jul 2014 at 02:14.
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Old 26th Jul 2014, 02:33
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Good job Grasshopper.

No doubt about it, Sarcs – you're a bloomin' legend mate; solid gold on a stick. That was no easy puzzle to nut out. I hesitated to put similar material up, not wanting to influence independent research; or head scratching.

Your reading of the form guide and observations match my own and Wodgers Wocket certainly must be considered a real contender. I agree; I just couldn't see a highly qualified, honest Cook making kau tau to Wabbit pooh, particularly in his own specialised area. You may also vaguely remember from the Pilot training inquiry that Senator X had received (via the Willyleaks system) the FRMS Special Audit report on the Jetstar Darwin base. That was authored by Ben Cook and coincidentally, was equally lambasted by McComic and his happy crew of willing accomplices.

Nope, as previously stated, if the stewards review the tapes, there's every chance of the interference protest being upheld and that will take Wodgers Wocket in odds on territory.

Have a large chocolate wabbit from the Gobbledock' s secret stash: on account of solving a tough one.

Toot toot..
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Old 26th Jul 2014, 04:14
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The lambs are still crying Clarise

Wodger isn't too phased. Last week he was strutting around Sleepy Hollows Sydney chapter, looking rather smug, confident and unashamedly proud. Didn't look like a man about to walk the green mile, looked more like a man who had just received his 2013/2014 bonus, or a reach-around, one or the other!
Very little evidence of fear or concern.

Toot toot
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Old 27th Jul 2014, 02:43
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Classic Psychotic Sociopath behavior wercras, they are immune to any criticism, and pathologically certain of their own superiority.

If the Wuss found a backbone and Wodger ended up in Jail, he'd still be convinced he was right.

He'd have to be kept in isolation because he'd have everyone at each others throats in very short order if he was allowed to mix in.
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Old 27th Jul 2014, 03:52
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sorry for some thread drift here.

I'm just looking at the CAsA CD "human factors for engineers"

prominent on the front is the following...
Disclaimer: CAsA accepts no responsibility for the accuracy or completeness of any material contained in this presentation. Additionally CAsA disclaims all liability to any person in respect of anything, and the consequences of anything, done or omitted to be done by any such person in reliance, whether wholly or partially, upon any information presented in this presentation.
CAsA if you won't even stand by your words why should anyone listen to anything you say?

hmmm. back in the box, display prominently on the shelf and ignore the lot.
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Old 27th Jul 2014, 04:14
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CAsA have become insignificant.
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Old 27th Jul 2014, 04:49
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Disclaimer: CAsA accepts no responsibility for the accuracy or completeness of any material contained in this presentation. Additionally CAsA disclaims all liability to any person in respect of anything, and the consequences of anything, done or omitted to be done by any such person in reliance, whether wholly or partially, upon any information presented in this presentation.
Appears to be a defence against "bush" lawyers
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Old 27th Jul 2014, 05:59
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I thought CAsA had everybody covered. Gives one hope if they feel threatened. CAsA are insignificant in hindsight, never really were significant.


They certainly are a threat to aviation safety if people prefer not to tell AVMED about medical conditions in case they have an opinion. Pilots with CAsA induced stress and depression are flying because they are fearful of what will happen if they say anything to anybody. The mishandling of CVD is proof they can't be trusted to maintain aviation safety.


I wonder what the poor bloody travelling, fare paying public would say?


Perhaps someone should tell them.
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Old 27th Jul 2014, 09:17
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I relented and watched the dvd in the pack.
"human factors for engineers"

I thought the entire presentation was contrived and infantile.
the recommendations are the greatest waste of time and energy possible, a great enemy of productive work and guaranteed to send a company bankrupt.

CAsA do not live in the real world.
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Old 27th Jul 2014, 19:14
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From the new ideas department.

W8 - Here you go – Register and you can even meet the author, get a copy signed in the hallowed halls and even mingle with elevated, qualified company.

The Sydney branch of the Royal Aeronautical Society advises that Wednesday 30th July is its next event, entitled ‘Aviation Safety Evening’, will be held at the University of Sydney. The evening will commence at 1730 with a presentation by Roger Chambers, Manager Sydney Region, Operations Division, CASA, followed at 1830 hours by a Panel Discussion entitled “Contemporary Aviation Safety Issues”. Registration is required for this key event. Please register here.
Extract:
Roger Chambers will be presenting a seminar about team factors, the opportunities to harness those factors to improve safety within the an organisation through the Safety Management System, and the hazards that can manifest within and between teams that history shows can lead to incidents and accidents. Roger will also provide an update about safety promotion material that has been developed by CASA in the past 18 months that is now available for industry. CASA Safety Promotion staff will be on hand to provide safety materials to participants.
To get some background on the speaker have a little read of the 'Chambers report' and you will see, clearly, why riff-raff like Mal Christie and Ben Cook are never invited to speak on safety matters to the cream of aviation society. You see, they have too many real qualifications on the subject matter, have written their own, original works to attain their qualifications and apart from occasionally advising ICAO and Australia's Air Force, actually do work at the leading edge of aviation safety. With those meagre qualifications they may only sit in the audience, all agog, listening in wonder to an insightful, original lecture being delivered, selflessly by a true expert in aviation safety. It should be the highlight of an enlightening evening....

At one time, until quite recently actually, I held the Royal Aeronautical Society in high regard and valued my shortly to be resigned membership. Epiphany - I worked it out - I can watch the shopping channel – at no cost – when I am seized with a sudden, irresistible urge to listen to snake oil salesmen and I don't even have to leave home on a cool winters evening to do so. This leaves me free time to pursue selling the Harbour bridge on E-bay. Magic.

“There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact.” Connan Doyle.
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