Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Merged: Senate Inquiry

Old 16th Jul 2014, 07:04
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Unhappy Second matter of privilege motion??

This am in the Senate the RRAT committee Chairs Sterle & the Heff weighed in with their own privilege motion...

Here is the Senate President statement:

MATTERS OF PRIVILEGE RAISED BY THE CHAIRS OF THE RURAL AND REGIONAL AFFAIRS AND TRANSPORT LEGISLATION AND REFERENCES COMMITTEES – STATEMENT BY THE PRESIDENT

By letter dated 11 July 2014, the Chairs of the Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport Legislation and References Committees, Senators Heffernan and Sterle, have raised a matter of privilege under standing order 81.

The matter of privilege concerns the possible imposition of a penalty by the taking of disciplinary action, either on a witness before the Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport References Committee or on a person providing information to the committee, in connection with its inquiry into aviation accident investigations which reported in 2013 and in connection with questions asked at the 2013 Budget estimates hearings.

Apart from the last element, this is essentially the same matter of privilege raised by Senator Xenophon , in relation to which I made a statement and gave precedence on 10 July 2014.

For the same reasons given in relation to the matter raised by Senator Xenophon, I am also satisfied that this matter meets the criteria to which I am required to have regard.

I have therefore determined that a motion to refer the matter to the Privileges Committee should have precedence over other business for the day on which it is given.

Before I call Senator Heffernan / Sterle, I remind the Senate that this determination of precedence is not a judgement of the substantive issues or merits of the matter, beyond the threshold judgement that:

  •  it is not of a trivial nature or unworthy of the attention of the Senate;
  •  it is necessary to take action to protect the Senate and senators against improper acts;
  •  there is no satisfactory remedy for dealing with the matter other than the contempt jurisdiction.
It is for the Senate to make a judgement whether this matter also merits referral to the Privileges Committee.


I table the correspondence and call Senator Heffernan / Sterle to give notice of the motion.

Link for the motion HERE

MTF...
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Old 16th Jul 2014, 07:44
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Contempt jurisdiction - The game escalates?

Sarcs, thank you for coming off the back bench and throwing such a robust curve ball at just the right time
Obviously the issue must have been hatched in Fort Fumbles basement. The Beaker, although a fairly political animal in his own right, is too busy counting coins and too stupid to 'badger a witness'. But, the Iron Ring, well that is a much different story. You are dealing with individuals more confident in their abilities than the Night Stalker or the Unabomber! Seasoned experts who have spent decades honing their skills in malfeasance, bullying and intimidation. Yes decades of experience obsfucating, stonewalling and deceiving. Yes these 'fallen angels' are used to being untouchable, coated in multi layers of Teflon, as slippery as a schoolgirl at band camp. Why are the Senators or any member of the IOS any challenge to them, I hear them ask? Who do these pesky Senators and dibber dobbing IOS think they are, I hear them ask? What Senator and IOS informant actually thinks he can out win, out last and out play us Regulatory survivors, I hear them ask?

One might hypothesise that those guilty of contempt jurisdiction must be crazy, smoking herbal medicine, maybe senile, perhaps even have a hint of testosterone left in their crinkly old beanbags? But no, nothing so simple. They operate with impunity, they know they cannot be brought to account as accountability isn't in their framework. They are comfortable within their own skins, confident that the decades of experience in metering out payback and engaging in sociopathic actions, for which successive governments have approved, sanctioned and encouraged by their inaction.
Then again, is this Custers last stand? Are Fort Fumble meeting the IOS head on at Little Bighorn - "Hurrah boys, we've got them! We'll finish them up and then go home".....hoping to finally destroy the perceived to be under prepared IOS enemy?

Who knows. After all it is just a game. A very serious game, but just a game. Forget the football, forget the tennis, and forget late night SBS world movies. It's time to crank up the home brew kit, import a ship load of popcorn, phone the Gobbledock, Stoke the Styx Riverboats engines and settle in for reportedly one heck of a finale!

Toot toot of the houseboat, crack crack of a bottle top, pop pop of the popcorn.....

Last edited by 004wercras; 16th Jul 2014 at 07:51. Reason: Caught Gobbledocks Unicorn trying too mount Minnie
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Old 16th Jul 2014, 08:44
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Danger Q/ Who has rolled who?

{Warning: Sarcs short post coming up}

Top post 004 and have already stocked the larder with popcorn...

Yes all passing strange this Privilege Motion (x2) thingy...and has me busily (& happily) reviewing old files and googling old leads...

Came across one that, in all the hoohhah at the time, I must of only given a cursory glance but on 2nd inspection, well????..: CAsA Second Supplementary Submission

{Hint refer to paragraphs 2.6-2.10 }

MTF...much more apparently..
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Old 16th Jul 2014, 09:55
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Very germane indeed
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Old 16th Jul 2014, 20:06
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Storm in a tea cup – or major blow???

Warning longish post.
It took a while for the penny to drop; but this is curiously intriguing. So first question – WTF is this?. I found some cut and dried answers –HERE – typically, dry as dust but of interest.

5. Matters of privilege
What is a matter of privilege?
A matter of privilege is any action which may constitute a contempt of the Senate and which the Senate may refer to its Committee of Privileges for investigation. The potential or actual improper interference caused by such conduct with the ability of a House, its committees or its members to perform their functions is a key factor in adjudging whether a contempt has been committed.
The following are examples of possible contempts:
• a witness gives evidence to a committee that he or she knows to be false;
• a government agency punishes one of its officers for giving evidence to a committee that goes against the official agency line;
• a potential witness is given an inducement not to give evidence to a committee;
• a key witness is uncooperative at a committee hearing and refuses to provide documents sought by the committee;
• a person threatens legal action against a senator to prevent him or her raising a particular issue in the Senate;
• a member of a committee gives a copy of the committee’s draft report to a journalist; the journalist writes an article about the implications of the committee’s proposed recommendations and the article is published before the report is tabled;
• a member of a committee gives a copy of a confidential submission received by the committee to a Minister’s office.
The Privilege Resolutions set out procedures for the investigation of contempts and the criteria for determining matters relating to contempt. Resolution 6 sets out a non-exhaustive list of matters that may constitute contempts.

Raising matters of privilege
Standing order 81 sets out the procedure for raising matters of privilege in the Senate for investigation. The first step is for the senator who intends to raise the matter of privilege to write to the President of the Senate describing the matter.
The President is required to consider the matter against criteria which are also set out in the Privilege Resolutions (Resolution 4). In determining, as soon as practicable, whether to give precedence to a notice of motion to refer the matter to the Committee of Privileges, the President must consider:
• the principle that the Senate’s power to adjudge and deal with contempts should be used only where it is necessary to provide reasonable protection for the Senate and its committees and for senators against improper acts tending substantially to obstruct them in the performance of their functions, and should not be used in respect of matters which appear to be of a trivial nature or unworthy of the attention of the Senate; and
• the existence of any remedy other than that power for any act which may be held to be a contempt.
The President’s decision is conveyed to the senator and, in most cases, to the Senate. While the matter is under consideration by the President the senator concerned must not take any other action in relation to the matter or refer to it in the Senate.
In most cases, the President decides that the matter should be given precedence. After this decision is notified to the Senate, the senator concerned gives a notice of motion to refer the matter to the Committee of Privileges for inquiry and report. The notice appears at the top of the Notice Paper on the relevant day, under the heading “Matter of Privilege”. It is usually dealt with as formal business (see Brief Guide No. 8—Notices of Motion) but if debate is required, a matter of privilege is dealt with ahead of all other categories of business (see Brief Guide No. 4—Categories of Business). The question whether the matter be referred is then determined by the Senate.

If the President determines that a matter of privilege should not be given precedence, it remains open to the senator concerned to take any action that is in accordance with the rules of the Senate; for example, referring to the matter in debate or giving notice of a motion seeking specified action, including a reference to the Committee of Privileges. Again, it is then up to a majority of the Senate to decide if that action should be taken.
While only a senator may raise a matter of privilege (other than a right of reply or adverse reflection in committee evidence—see below), aggrieved persons may ask senators or committees to raise matters on their behalf.

Other common contempts
By far the most commonly investigated contempts involve conduct by or in relation to witnesses appearing before Senate committees, including:
• the giving of false or misleading evidence
• interference with witnesses (for example by punishing them for having given evidence or by giving them an inducement not to give evidence).
The Privileges Committee publishes summaries of the many cases of possible contempt which it has investigated.
Apparently, (I'm informed) this is a 'big deal' and unusual, can't get accurate figures but it seems there have only been 44 (or so) of these things since federation; but don't hold me to account on the very second hand numbers.

When Xenophon fired his Matters of Privilege (MoP) big gun on July 10, like Creamy, I thought fine, (ho-hum) yet another wet lettuce censure which will be water off a ducks back. Thought process error – I should have taken it in, with a little less cynicism. It seems these MoP have priority and can 'stop the works' until they are addressed, if those who raise them claim precedence. So, it's no light matter and with the parliament embroiled in the carbon tax debate and other 'serious' business, a thing like this, at this time, with the potential to hold up proceedings means someone, is very serious about the matter. When Heffernan and Searle popped up yesterday with a second almost identical MoP shout, any doubts about this not being serious vanished.

It's now up to the Senate to decide the MoP fate; they can turf it out, discuss the matter; or, flick pass it to the Privileges Committee, who will deliberate 'sub-rosa' and decide what's to be done. Lots of money for the flick pass option.

So to the puzzle, what's it all about? There are some thin clues.

"The matter of privilege concerns the possible imposition of a penalty by the taking of disciplinary action, either on a witness before the Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport References Committee or on a person providing information to the committee, in connection with its inquiry into aviation accident investigations which reported in 2013 and in connection with questions asked at the 2013 Budget estimates hearings." my bold
The 'When' is clear enough; the 'What' same-same: that leaves 'Who dun Wot to Whom'. Which is most unsatisfactory. Lots of possible runners for those trying to work out the field. But it has to be a 'big hitter' in the gun sight; they don't stop parliament for a storm in a tea cup. As Sarcs points out; perhaps someone rolled over and spilled the beans; or someone complained (not unusual); or, someone has done something really silly and been sprung. Telling the Senate fairy stories would qualify though, wouldn't it? and if that's ever proven, then someone needs to duck for cover, (or off) PDQ.

There are lots of choices for the connoisseur; have CASA been making life difficult for those who dared testify or provided evidence?, the answer is yes; not for anyone 'heavy' but I know of three lightweights' who were involved, who are receiving some unwelcome attention. But that, standing alone does not merit a MoP; nope, not even the three together would cause the Senate to break wind, let alone raise a MoP. There's also rumour of some undignified behaviour and hair pulling as a result of the WLR, but as that carried no parliamentary privilege and was not 'Senate' business, it's hard to parlay that into a MoP, anyway the date line is wrong.

A look at the winners and losers board does not provide much insight, but if you follow that line, you have to start with the heavyweights, here again the Senate is not going to raise a MoP for the sake of hammering a clerk who was rude to someone on the phone; it has to be a big, juicy morsel to make it all worth while. I agree with 004, Dolan don't signify. So, what are we are left with; McComic, Mrdak, Farkuhardson, Aleck and Anastasi – all were in attendance at one time or another; a date check may reduce the numbers; all were economical with words; all towed the party line. A beef with any or all of these 'executive' guys could, potentially trigger a MoP. If the Senators have nailed one; he'll 'peach', sure as eggs, and that boys and girls, could be very interesting. See the Sarcs link above; plenty of food for thought right there. Then there is the farce of the DAS selection process to consider?, that's got to be worth a second thought.

CASA made two strategic 'boo-boo's: one, by underestimating the Senators intelligence, sense of purpose, unity and integrity; then further infuriating them, dismissal by open contempt is not a recommended option. Compounding this error is the assumption that they, CASA, are indeed 'above the law'. Secondly, they grossly underestimated the anger and hostility from industry, arrogantly choosing only to hear what their selected handmaidens, Casaphile's and Casasexuals told them.

Truss clearly don't give a rats and is in no hurry to do anything for aviation, (Spring is the latest, precise best estimate) but has he also has underrated this Senate crew and industry determination?. He is certainly not well advised. Then again, maybe this is all just part of some Abbott generated scheme to get his bills through parliament. Not that it matters, just yet...

We shall have to wait and see. Happily, the day is my own and like Sarcs, I shall have quiet read through the pertinent parts of the Hansard; see if I can pick a winner. But, you'll admit, it's a worthy puzzle, a challenge not to be missed. Maybe it's a storm in a tea cup, but my Grand Mamma can read the tea leaves; perhaps I'll visit her today – tea and biccy's with Grand, my favourite.

Aye - the curse of curiosity strikes again...Is it to be the silence of the lambs, or the squealing of the three little pigs for a bedtime story? -.-

Last edited by Kharon; 16th Jul 2014 at 20:54. Reason: Thought it was a stray comma – not so – screen clean now. Used the cat; colour me happy.
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Old 16th Jul 2014, 21:33
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CASA made two strategic 'boo-boo's: one, by underestimating the Senators intelligence, sense of purpose, unity and integrity; then further infuriating them, dismissal by open contempt is not a recommended option. Compounding this error is the assumption that they, CASA, are indeed 'above the law'. Secondly, they grossly underestimated the anger and hostility from industry, arrogantly choosing only to hear what their selected handmaidens, Casaphile's and Casasexuals told them.
Agreed. However the reason CAsA took the Mickey bliss out of the Senators is because they know the system, and figured that after decades of being slapped with wet lettuce leaves nothing will stick. Now if the Senators have proof, tangible evidence that Fort Fumble have been lying or bullying then the Senators may be in a position to finally have the last laugh? A small victory perhaps, claiming a scalp, but one scalp on the mantle piece is better than none I say! But solid proof is what would be required and I don't believe that two contempt jurisdiction requests would be tabled if the Senators had nothing more robust than the verbal ramblings of the IOS or some tendentious blogs read on Pprune? Perhaps they do have some written evidence? A video tape or a recording? Maybe a missing document that didn't exist now exists and has magically appeared??? After all, aviation is a mysterious industry. This may turn into a battle Royale, a winner takes all cage match.... Ding ding Senators and lets get ready to rumbbbbbbbbbble..... Oh dear, someone could truly get wodgered over this..

Tick Tock Mr Truss. Tick Tock.

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Old 16th Jul 2014, 23:40
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Mi mi mi mi Beaker update!

My source tells me that Beaker has signed on for another two years as Chief Commissioner, confirmed. Heaven help us.
So that now makes two reappointments, Beaker and Pumpkin Head. Of course MrComick is out the door, which is good, but I have been told that the Witchdoctor will also depart later in the year. Unconfirmed but meant to be true.
There are many more rumours floating across the field of Little Bighorn at the moment, including that the Geriatric A380 endorsed executive will also be leaving, but the smoke signals can't be verified at this point in time and nothing is being printed out of Sky Sentinel.

To be con't.........


"Toot toot, and it looks like the economy has changed and the pax figures for the Styx River Queen are improving"

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Old 17th Jul 2014, 08:29
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Sarcs {Hint refer to paragraphs 2.6-2.10 }
Seems an interesting place to start. The discussion about why the chambers report didn't get to the Atsb was frosty. Not sure if in the inquiry or later in estimates. I seem to recall Senators telling casa to think very carefully about their responses.

.
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Old 18th Jul 2014, 02:59
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NX diagnosis: Gastric reflux or APH dining room e-co(a)li(tion)??

004:
My source tells me that Beaker has signed on for another two years as Chief Commissioner, confirmed. Heaven help us.
Maybe this disgusting, underhanded, bureaucratic morsel was what caused the good Senator Nick to suddenly bolt from the Senate Chamber on Wednesday and to have a sick note supplied on the Thursday, for it would be news that would cause any reasonable (man at the back of the room) person to want to vomit... : Hospital visit for ill Xenophon

Word is the good Senator has recovered and is back in the saddle......what may have hastened his recovery was the fact that not only was his MoP..
Senator XENOPHON (South Australia) (16:02): I move:
That the following matter be referred to the Standing Committee of Privileges for inquiry and report:
In the context of an inquiry by the Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport References Committee into aviation accident investigations:
(a) whether disciplinary action was taken against either a witness before the committee or a person providing information to the committee; and
(b) if so, whether any contempt was committed in respect of those matters.
Question agreed to.
...flick passed to the Privileges Committee....but so to was the Heff & Sterle relayed pass eagerly accepted..
Senator McEWEN (South Australia—Opposition Whip in the Senate) (12:01): At the request of Senator Heffernan and Senator Sterle, I move:
(1) That the following matter be referred to the Committee of Privileges for inquiry and report:
In the context of an inquiry by the Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport References Committee into aviation accident investigations and Budget estimates hearings of the Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport Legislation Committee in May 2013:
(a) whether disciplinary action was taken against either a witness before the committee or a person providing information to the committee; and
(b) if so, whether any contempt was committed in respect of those matters.
(2) That, for the purpose of providing further information to the Committee of Privileges, the Standing Committees on Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport have access to the records of the committee in the previous Parliament.
Question agreed to.
..in amongst the carbon tax repeal white noise...

If nothing else this years budget estimate ATSB hearings, the Senate and now the MoP x2 more than adequately display that the RRAT Committee Senators palpable anger and sheer contempt for Beaker has not dissipated with the passage of time...





If the 004 source of info be true, then I have no doubt that the unified (still angry) Senators will not let that miniscule decision slide through, unchecked and not commented on, especially with the TSBC peer review report still pending and now a Privileges Committee inquiry in tow....

MTF...

ps HMHB still exploring the FRMS Special Audit angle but as a matter of passing interest, I noticed that the ATsB have recently updated the "minor" safety issues. With what exactly I am not sure??

AO-2009-072-SI-01

{Comment: Interesting that although CAsA are still actioning this SI, that the ATsB have listed the SI as "closed"??}

AO-2009-072-SI-02

{Comment: Bullet point two Q/ What happened in between?? Did FF actually follow the former HF expert considered opinion that PelAir be bumped back to CAO 48.0 until the reactive culture and certain individuals were replaced or ???}
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Old 18th Jul 2014, 03:33
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Omens, grave portents and an 'orse race..

With moderator forbearance and a solemn no Chanties promise...

"Your presence is requested and required at five bells in the last dog watch; sharp; be there etc. etc". read the BRB missive. How strange thought I; BRB is normally pitch up if in town, when and as best pleases; most unusual to receive a 'requested and required'. So I toddled off arriving on time, to be met at the pub door by one of the 'new boys' – "they're upstairs in the ballroom" says the young gun. It's not really a ballroom, just a big-ish room where the junk is stored; old tables, knackered dartboards, old promotional stuff; but it serves well for serious sit downs, thus forewarned I headed up the stairs, about half way up I became slightly alarmed; there was so very little noise. Not a good omen.

I slipped in, and sensing the mood, just nodded to a few and sat down at P7 's table (much admired for it's Limerick graffiti, cigarette burns and 'artistic' carvings) – "Wuz up" says I: "Shhh !" says TOM. On the dot of 1830 one of the senior, retired members stood up and asked for quiet; "thanks for turning out" says he "I have asked for this special indaba so we can discuss the potential field for the Senate Ordinance Cup". Looks were exchanged and a crackle of electric interest passed through the two dozen odd assembled BRB. Oh ho, thinks I, as TOM gave me a crafty wink.

"The Senators have sponsored a very rare, heavy duty Matters of Privilege event": says our worthy, "I propose we place a substantial wager on the outcome" pauses - sip of red and continues. "It's to be a mystery event; they are not declaring the entry field, so we have no idea of the who the potential entrants may be; further, we have no idea of distance or indeed which hurdles may be used". "This is their right: however, I believe if we can narrow the field down to a few potential runners, we may see a substantial return on a modest investment; all those in favour say Aye". Carried - Unanimous – game On.

Well, it was a long evening and I dare say the bar suffered for it, but in the end it came down to a choice of four favourites; it was agreed that individual wagers could be made on a personal fancy, but the BRB 'pot' would be placed on the final selection. Herewith, the BRB form guide for the event. In reverse order:-

At #4. each way bet (4/1) with the BRB tote. Wodgers Wocket: Gelding, by Gas Chamber out of Sleight of Hand. Raced well last season, but with several disputed wins. The gelding prefers to run in the middle of the pack and has been accused, but never convicted of interference from behind. The infamous win in the Pel Air classic was a master stroke of deceptive running worthy of his infamous dam, Sleight of Hand. Track side gossip has it that dodgy 'paperwork' (pedigree and patents of nobility) have been 'shuffled' to provide, at least on the surface, a notion of racing credibility. At the last outing (Pel Air stakes 2013) the protest by the Cooked and Christmas stable lost traction when much of the required paperwork was 'lost' and other documents being unsigned were ruled out; but had that protest been upheld, the tote odds on the gelding would be much less liberal than we see at the SP bookmaker. A horse to watch.....

At #3. (3/1) with the BRB tote. Pumpkin Patch. Horse, by Magic Minister out of Bishops Queen. A stayer, suited the longer distances, larger tracks and 'big races'. Well managed by the connections, this crafty campaigner prefers a rails run without interference but has been distracted in the past and lost by not paying attention to the tactics employed by the rest of the runners. Last outing the horse nearly took a tumble at the Pink Bat sponsored gully fence, which slowed the approach to the final straight up Airport hill. An inability to increase pace during the final gallop tempts the betting to favour a strong third or close second.

At #2. (even money) with the BRB tote. Pearly White. Gelding out of Pinch-a-Penny and Sandsong Castle. First real outing for the gelding was the Pel Air classic and being raced in blinkers didn't assist. Experts assess the herd instinct in the animal to be very deep which restricts ability to lead and being reliant on the herd for guidance only accelerates when threatened directly from behind. A noted lack of agility makes this entry one of the firm favourites with the bookies, not the punters...

At #1. (5/4 odds on) with the BRB tote. Dark Horse. Horse out of Voodoo Rhythm by McComic's Folly. Only trackside gossip available due to lack of public racing experience. Word is that in the world of private racing, the Iron Ring connections will back the horse to the hilt until a first loss after which it will be put out to pasture used to train potential future stars and provided a quiet life.

Those are our picks for the Senate Matter of Privilege event, the winner earning it's connections the High Ordinance trophy and the Contempt of Parliament plate. Not bad for an afternoons work.

We remind all IOS readers that it is your shirt and you can do whatever pleases you best with it.
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Old 19th Jul 2014, 04:21
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MoP Stakes

K,
My money is on Pearly White. Dark Horse is about to be put out to pasture so the drive won't be there for the win. Pearly White has a lot to lose, and the pressure is on due to recent appalling form.
No doubt the stewards will be watching this one closely. Pumpkin Patch has a habit checking, running wide and causing interference in the home straight.

Last edited by Jinglie; 19th Jul 2014 at 04:25. Reason: Looking at form at the recent ICAO Stakes.
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Old 21st Jul 2014, 21:16
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Distractions abound.

Recent events have diverted attention away from our domestic mini tragedy and the anticipated release of the Canadian TSB report on the ATSB. Perhaps we worry needlessly; it could be that 'Beaker does the Ukraine' has a happy ending, the one where someone shoots him in the arse and shuts him up.

Sarcs –" AIPA’s message on the importance of maintaining a fully independent ATsB is also consistent.

AIPA‘s submission highlighted their very real concerns with the continuing demise of the ATsB.
004 My source tells me that Beaker has signed on for another two years as Chief Commissioner, confirmed. Heaven help us.
Sarcs "Maybe this disgusting, underhanded, bureaucratic morsel was what caused the good Senator Nick to suddenly bolt from the Senate Chamber on Wednesday and to have a sick note supplied on the Thursday, for it would be news that would cause any reasonable (man at the back of the room) person to want to vomit.."

"If the 004 source of info be true, then I have no doubt that the unified (still angry) Senators will not let that miniscule decision slide through, unchecked and not commented on, especially with the TSBC peer review report still pending and now a Privileges Committee inquiry in tow".
TSB report - embarrassment or blessing in disguise? It is going to be interesting to see whenever (or indeed if), it does gets published. Will the TSB report mirror what the majority of professionals think – that the ATSB is an essential, invaluable weapon in the air safety arsenal? Neither the British, Canadian or the USA governments have a subservient handmaiden to regulator, only Australia seems to have allowed this travesty. One question to ask is, how would the other NAA have responded to Pel Air?. Considering this leads you to ask how can the CTSB report possibly fail to utterly damn Beaker: if gross, indecent hypocrisy is to be avoided, that is.

It is worth your time to examine SR A-14-022 from the NTSB – not from an 'operational' perspective; but from a 'systems' perspective. The way the NTSB and FAA have set about actually 'sorting' and addressing the issues. There is not any Wodger sleight of hand, no selective distribution of paper work, no manipulation of 'facts', very few deliberate omissions and absolutely nothing swept under the carpet. This is, IMO what we have lost in Australia and should be demanding it back, seeing as how we pay for service.

As long as the Beaker posterior is firmly planted and until the Minuscule gives ATSB real leadership the IOS can only assume that the Forsyth review and the TSB report are simply window dressing, the rhetoric, hot air and any chance of real safety system improvements or action; diluted, to a fare the well. Impartiality, integrity or education all fed to the voracious wolves at Sleepy Hollow as a morning snack...

(Jingles – PW is indeed a good bet, BUT, don't forget – last outing the beast was blinked and only accelerated due to some severe, expertly done interference 'from behind' – no other option available. There's still some Steward interest in the last event. Who knows? perhaps new evidence of this from the Dark Horse is in play). Either way - you pays your money and takes your chances._.

Toot toot.

Last edited by Kharon; 21st Jul 2014 at 21:59. Reason: Bad link - anyone help - SRA 14/022
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Old 22nd Jul 2014, 01:10
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Beaker farce – The return of Reason!

Kharon:
Recent events have diverted attention away from our domestic mini tragedy and the anticipated release of the Canadian TSB report on the ATSB. Perhaps we worry needlessly; it could be that 'Beaker does the Ukraine' has a happy ending, the one where someone shoots him in the arse and shuts him up.
004:
What a farce, the Beaker flew out to the Ukraine today to assist with the investigation of MH17!!!
TB:
Good old Beaker will sit around the hotel sipping Lattes, maybe do a bit of sightseeing, with a bit of luck get popped by a drunken separatist, but I doubt he'll get to see a bit of road kill, let alone anything else…
“K”, 004 & TB my sentiments exactly…

Despite the Jinglie statement that Beaker is simply a muppet put in place to cover up the multitude of failings (at all levels) of the bureau & Fort Fumble, IMO it is simply unacceptable that this muppet, while expounding his (penny pinching) BASR philosophy, continues in the bureau CC/spokesman position…

TSBC peer review report overdue??

Taking up on the “K” post with a Selleys (gap filler) moment…

“…It is worth your time to examine SR A-14-022 from the NTSB – not from an 'operational' perspective; but from a 'systems' perspective…”

“K” is referring to a NTSB SR that I first drew attention to at post #1966:
Which is followed by…

“…The NTSB is vitally interested in these recommendations because they are designed to prevent accidents and save lives. We would appreciate receiving a response from you within 30days regarding A-14-22 (Urgent) and 90 days regarding A-14-23 detailing the actions you have taken or intend to take to implement them…”

Through the user friendly NTSB SR system, it is also possible to actively monitor the outcomes of these SRs…
Within the 30 day requirement (unlike FF who have been known to obfuscate SRs for up to a decade or more..), the FAA ‘immediately’ actioned the NTSB ‘urgent’ SR and sent the following correspondence in response:
Response Date:
5/30/2014
Response:
-From Michael P. Huerta, Administrator: The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) has reviewed the Board's concerns and its questions related to operators owned by HoTJ-1, Inc. An independent team of Flight Standards National Field Office (AFS-900) Aviation Safety Inspectors (ASIs) from outside of Alaska was assembled and immediately dispatched to Alaska to conduct an audit on Hageland Aviation Inc.’s (EPUA) Title 14, Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) Part 135 operations. The evaluation was conducted from April 28 to May 9, 2014. at the EPUA main base of operation in Anchorage and Palmer. Alaska. Station and aircraft ramp inspections were conducted in Anchorage, Barrow. Bethel, Deadhorse, Fairbanks, Palmer, and St. Mary's, Alaska. Multiple enroute inspections were also conducted on the various fleet types operated by EPUA. The results of the EPUA audit are being reviewed to determine appropriate action. Several areas of concern within the broad areas identified by the Board were documented by the team and communicated to EPUA key management personnel and the FAA certificate management team responsible for the oversight of EPUA. Era Aviation (ERAA), a part 121 certificate holder owned by HoTH, was the subject of a national Air Carrier Evaluation Process (ACEP) audit conducted by an independent team of AFS-900 ASIs from outside of Alaska. The ACEP, which concluded in June 2013, revealed weak areas within the broad categories identified by the Board. As a result, follow-up actions have been taken and continue to be implemented by HoTH and the FAA. AFS-900 plans to send another independent team of ASIs to conduct a national ACEP audit on ERAA in the first quarter of Fiscal Year 2015. This audit will include a review of the discrepancies previously identified in the June 2013 ACEP audit. Additionally, the FAA's Director of Flight Standards Service and his Deputy will travel to Alaska in July 2014 to meet with regional and office personnel to discuss the HoTH situation and assess progress being made by the certificate holders to correct the identified deficiencies. I will keep the Board informed of the FAA's progress on this safety recommendation and provide an updated response by August 31, 2015.
Notice that the FAA don’t argue the TOSS on the NTSB findings, nor do they question the NTSB suggested SR actions, in fact they expand on the SR with planned further actions.

Compare to Beaker’s BASR with Pel-Air, from my post #1966:
..In the ATsB final report of the investigation into the ditching of VH-NGA under the heading Organisational and management information the bureau made the following cursory summary of CAsA’s oversight of PelAir…

“…The regulatory requirements affecting the flight were administered by CASA and established a number of risk controls for the operation that were promulgated in the Civil Aviation Regulations (CAR) and CAOs. Those controls related to the operator, the pilot in command (PIC) and the conduct of the flight. Surveillance was carried out by CASA of operators’ procedures and operations to ensure that such flights were conducted in accordance with those approvals and the relevant regulations and orders…

…but after the findings of the Senate AAI inquiry and on CAsA’s own admissions (& the Chamberpot report), there were many obvious deficiencies in the regulator’s oversight of the PelAir Operation that were contributory to the ditching.

However in the ATsB’s blinkered view these safety issues were not significant enough to issue either a significant safety issue or SR to the regulator and the rest is history.
I could pick up on many quotes from the PelAir inquiry that go to this issue but the following from Bryan Aherne captures the Beaker (politically correct) BASR methodology vs the rest of the AAI world methodology...

"...Senator XENOPHON:Can you give us any insight into the relationship between CASA and the ATSB? There was a report in 2007 and there are MOUs and protocols between the two. From your knowledge of the interplay between ATSB and CASA do you think that that balance is right or that there are issues there?

Mr Aherne : If this report is anything to judge that by, no.

Senator XENOPHON:In what way?

Mr Aherne : CASA and the ATSB must necessarily cooperate, but it does not mean that they lie in the same bed. What they need to do is have a very healthy respect for one another, but you need a distance to stand off. You need to be strictly independent in this game because you only get one shot at this stuff, and clearly in this case the ATSB has not even mentioned anything about the failure of the life jackets…"

Hmm..not sure what political games that RED & the miniscule are playing at by keeping Beaker in the CC position?? Maybe it is the adage that it is “better the devil you know”?? However the IOS & Senators will not accept Beaker as a permanent fixture for too much longer…

Even the international media are fast catching on that the veracity of Beaker (as the bureau spokesperson) is questionable, surely it is only a matter of time before this muppet passes his use by date??

TICK..TOCK bring back ‘Reason’ miniscule & FFS release the TSBC report!

MTF…

ps I’m with Jinglie for the MoP Stakes.. Despite recent form PW finished fast for a credible 2nd in the 2010 MoU Cup, which is raced over the same distance and on a similar track. So my pick is ‘Pearly White’, who was incidently sired by ‘Aloo’, winner of the 2004 MoU Cup….
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Old 22nd Jul 2014, 01:58
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To whichever moderators may be concerned.

I can manage the fact that little of either Kharon or SARCs posts are intelligible. And I can mange that of those bits that are intelligible little is factual.

However it is unacceptable, at all times and all places for either of them to cruelly waste those few words which are intelligible by mentioning the Ukraine while grieving relatives and friends are still seeing pictures of body bags on the TV.

Comic demonstrations of their glibness with an Encyclopaedia of Greek Mythology and a Thesaurus are one thing. I expect no wisdom, sense, logic or even facts. But common decency is another thing and I hope they can be counselled to remove any offending posts and go find a church somewhere where there's a memorial service and sit quietly.

Algie
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Old 22nd Jul 2014, 02:15
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While not intending to trespass on your grief Algie, may I respectfully point your attention to the following link that has 708 replies and 835,742 hits as I write.


http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/5...onetsk-36.html


There appears to be a significant amount of hand wringing on this topic and it's probably best to treat the matter as educational and unemotional as possible. I like to ask the simple question first, "what can we learn from all this" and that answer should point you to who had the duty of care.


In my opinion, and I'll say no more, Dolan will not achieve anything for those grieving, let alone arrive at the conclusion so obvious to all but politically insignificant.


I doubt the previous posters considered your grief. I certainly had no idea until your emotional post. I'll pray with you if it helps.
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Old 22nd Jul 2014, 03:41
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Ah Carrion or whatever, as they say you set low standards and woefully fail to meet them. Yet in your own lunchbox....a real legend

Sigh.....
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Old 22nd Jul 2014, 09:29
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BEAKER

Algie,

That twit Beaker will do nothing but cause those grieving more grief! What on earth were they thinking even letting him talk to the camera. He loves the camera (except the Senate one). The CPT was a mate of mine from way back. I hope he rests in peace! Beaker being involved has infuriated me. How dare we serve the deceased passengers and experienced crew with an expert on hot coffee spills and falls from heights.

Don't get upset with Kharon, SARCS etc. Send your grief to Minuscule Truss for embarrassing our great country.

RIP alls souls onboard.
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Old 22nd Jul 2014, 09:43
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Aagh yes, must be a full moon, Algie has come out to play. What's the matter Algie, you getting bored posting on the Victoria police facebook page? It's been a while since you called for moderator intervention, complained about Kharon's method of writing, you know all the usual gripes.

Back to the thread. Sarcs old chap, my source tells me that the Miniscule does not want the Canucks report released. This could be very significant because if true, why would the Miniscule want it buried? Well why not I say. This is a government of deception and lies. They pulled the plug on making the Senate submissions public, they pulled the plug on reporting about asylum boats, so it makes sense that if the Canucks report even remotely smells like a fart it will be locked away! But in reality I was suspecting it would be more of a wet lettuce slap if anything. After all we are dealing with scrutiny of a government agency and you can't have that. Remember that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely, so of course they are using all of their bags of tricks. So naturally a governments agency's are going to act in the same way as their masters.

Time will tell, tis all a fun game....I was thinking of ending my post with some Geek mythology or a shanty, but I don't have time as its BBQ time on the Houseboat. Kharon is doing the cooking, Gobbledock is bringing the beer and Sarcs and myself are doing the pole dancing!
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Old 22nd Jul 2014, 09:46
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gee whiz minister truss. not prepared to admit that you are watching 300 million dollars being wasted by the shamans of safety.

gutless warren. totally gutless.
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Old 22nd Jul 2014, 10:41
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Truss - Beaker problem

004,

I think I can add to your info. Opinion, of course.

Pumpkin Head tells Truss to re-appoint Beaker. Truss approves, after a G&T and some cucumber sandwiches. "Good with the money" says Warren as he smiles at Pumpkin Head and his string of advisors writing furiously, trying to come up with a 5 point plan to fix aviation safety. Amongst the skilled advisors are;

three 23 year olds on uni research in marketing,
two 27 year old lawyers who can't get a job in the real world, and
three 70+ year olds smoking cigars, wearing eye-patches, Canberra's finest no doubt.

The Senators find out, and Fawcett goes ballistic. He can't do anything though as his political hands are tied to Truss. Fawcett speaks to NX who decides to raise an MoP. All good, but NX on his own is not enough, so they rally Heff (who has no regard for Beaker) and doesn't care too much about party politics, Then the clanger, Sterle goes in to back Heff and NX (opposition now so no issue there)!!!

Doesn't it seem odd that the key detective in this whole shambles, i.e "good Dave" hasn't raised an MoP with NX, Heff and Sterle????

Well played good Steward's.

Game Over Beaker!

Opinion, of course.

Last edited by Jinglie; 22nd Jul 2014 at 11:05. Reason: Just got official word Dolan has ordered a second Latte. No spills we hope!
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