PPRuNe Forums

Go Back   PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Worldwide > Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific
Forgotten your Username/Password?

Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12th Dec 2009, 22:42   #1 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: temporarily geographically misplaced
Posts: 13
Snoop Jetstar flight cancellation policy

I've just returned to Australia from a nine year stint in a European airline. In my jetlagged fog, I got into a converstation with someone who claims that Jetstar routinely cancels flights if they are "not full enough".

I stated that it couldn't be so... could it?


In Europe, such goings on would be totally unacceptable. At the airline that I was working for it was never a consideration (I was in a position to know).


Is it different here? Please, please, tell me it ain't so!
frogfriday is offline   Reply
Old 12th Dec 2009, 23:52   #2 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Asia Pacific
Posts: 1,110
I'm of the understanding that an RPT carrier can't do that in Australia. They must operate to their schedule regardless of their load.

I suspect Air Asia does it in Malaysia as they have so many retimed flights a day, it's a joke.
training wheels is online now   Reply
Old 13th Dec 2009, 00:12   #3 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Brisbane
Age: 68
Posts: 1,419
Not sure of the situation at present, but this has happened routinely for decades.

The Airlines are NOT common carriers, like trains and buses, and if they have (had anyway in years gone) a flight going with only a few pax and another flight going to the same destination an hour or two later with plenty of spare seats, of course they would cancel one of them.

Mind you they would not tell the pax that, would in the olden days blame maintenance or in more recent PC times technical requirements.
airsupport is offline   Reply
Old 13th Dec 2009, 00:37   #4 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Dunedin, NZ
Posts: 280
http://www.ryanair.com/doc/faqs/EU261_EN.pdf


Tiger got themselves into trouble shortly after they started by cancelling a return flight between MEL and OOL, and lots of people turned up at OOL to be told the flight had been cancelled, and they had all received refunds, and they would get no further help from the airline. Because of public outrage, they did charter a PacificBlue plane that night, and more recently when they cancelled they did offer passengers a hotel room for the night, so they have learned?

In the EU, passengers have EU regulation 261/2004 which they can use to bang the airline over the head with if the flight is delayed or cancelled. At the time of the first Tiger cancellation I read the EU rules, and I thought we could do with similar rules in Australia, New Zealand. But I have been assured that good Aussie/Kiwi airlines would not treat their passengers like some of those nasty European based airlines do, so we do not need heavy handed EU regulations here. No one will be interested until a plane load of passengers are stranded on the Gold Coast with full hotels charging families huge walk-in prices. At the moment all we have to protect passengers is the bad coverage the airline will get in the media when it happens.
alangirvan is offline   Reply
Old 13th Dec 2009, 01:09   #5 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Brisbane
Age: 68
Posts: 1,419
That is a different issue altogether.

Quote:
routinely cancels flights if they are "not full enough".
As I said I have seen THIS happen hundreds of times, used to be very common in the good old days.

If we had 2 flights going to the same place within an hour or two of each other, both with not many pax, they would just cancel one and put them all on the same flight.

Sometimes too, but not as often, they would combine flights to different destinations, like for example combining a BNE-ROK-MKY flight with a low pax load with a BNE-TSV flight with a low pax load and have the one flight BNE-ROK-MKY-TSV, although this was more complicated because of crew hours etc.
airsupport is offline   Reply
Old 13th Dec 2009, 01:47   #6 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: PER
Posts: 1,060
I don't believe there is any legislation to prevent airlines cancelling flights due to poor loads. Happens often in the regions, particularly over Xmas where in some ports demand is very weak so a flight is cancelled and the pax transferred onto the next service.
topend3 is offline   Reply
Old 13th Dec 2009, 01:51   #7 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: The Land Downunder
Posts: 765
I don't know what airline you worked for in Europe but I can assure you after 10 years working in the UK my airline used to routinely cancel flights that were not full enough. Especially if it could be consolidated with another service later in the day. We had quite a few long haul services get cancelled from time to time due to lack of interest. Is this not what the 'green lobby' in the UK were demanding and the whole idea behind the loosening of the rules on 'slot' regularity out out LHR at the start of the credit crunch. The new rules allowed for 'tactical' cancellations without putting the slot pair in jeporady. I am certain that most airlines who are able do it.
Artificial Horizon is offline   Reply
Old 13th Dec 2009, 02:19   #8 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Brisbane
Age: 68
Posts: 1,419
Quote:
I don't believe there is any legislation to prevent airlines cancelling flights due to poor loads. Happens often in the regions, particularly over Xmas where in some ports demand is very weak so a flight is cancelled and the pax transferred onto the next service.
Yes as I said before it is something to do with the fact that the Airlinees are NOT ''common carriers'' (I think that is the correct wording).

They do it regularly (or certainly used to) for that reason and also of course other reasons like a Crew member going sick, or a mechanical fault, but also just for poor pax loads.

The pax basically have no real comeback as long as they get where they paid to go eventually.

I have even seen it many times where they will even divert a pax flight to suit themsleves, I recall one incident years ago when we had a DC9 go U/S in ROK and I had to go up to it, no other flights going to ROK that day, so they just put me on a direct BNE-TSV DC9 flight and diverted it into ROK, they just told the pax after takeoff from BNE that they were diverting via ROK for ''operational requirements".
airsupport is offline   Reply
Old 13th Dec 2009, 03:34   #9 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: temporarily geographically misplaced
Posts: 13
Huh... thanks. I have a suspicion I've been pretty much spoiled overseas.

I was working in the Technical department at one of the larger Lufthansa daughter companies, and even before the EU legislation came in there was not a policy of routinely cancelling flights because they weren't 'full enough'.

If there were enough AOGs that the reserves couldn't cover the flights, then the 'underbooked' flights would be the first to go (if possible, etc etc).

In off-peak times (public holidays, christmas etc) they have a different flight plan - but this is usually known in advance (as it's more or less the same every year). AFAIK they only sell tickets for the available flights.
frogfriday is offline   Reply
Old 13th Dec 2009, 04:51   #10 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: australia
Posts: 167
You clowns bitch and moan constantly about Jetstar. It wish to congratulate the Jetstar crew for not getting involved in this constant mindless dribble.

Well Done
captaintunedog777 is offline   Reply
Old 13th Dec 2009, 05:01   #11 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Brisbane
Age: 68
Posts: 1,419
Quote:
You clowns bitch and moan constantly about Jetstar.
It never ceases to amaze me, some of the here on PPRuNe.

The original poster asked a question, and everyone since then has answered politely and NOBODY since then has even mentioned Jetstar.

All of the answers were just general, about all Aussie Airlines.

GET A LIFE..................
airsupport is offline   Reply
Old 13th Dec 2009, 05:10   #12 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 758
Qantas combines flights with low loads. Not frequently but with some regularity. I notice this on SYD-CBR and SYD-MEL particularily.
ditzyboy is offline   Reply
Old 13th Dec 2009, 05:11   #13 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: In Frozen Chunks (Cloud Cuckoo Land)
Age: 7
Posts: 1,490
Jetstar work on a strict ass-crack and mullet to body odour formula.

If the amount of cumulative ass crack, combined with body odour and mullet hairstyles doesnt reach the predetermined bogun levels required the flight is cancelled.
blueloo is offline   Reply
Old 13th Dec 2009, 05:24   #14 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Brisbane
Age: 68
Posts: 1,419
Quote:
Qantas combines flights with low loads. Not frequently but with some regularity. I notice this on SYD-CBR and SYD-MEL particularily.
I am sure they do, as did the Airlines that I was familiar with, Ansett and TAA.

I am also sure (without having first hand knowledge) that they all still do it, not only Qantas and Jetstar but Virgin Blue, Tiger and any others, IF they have any business sense.
airsupport is offline   Reply
Old 13th Dec 2009, 05:26   #15 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Brisbane
Age: 68
Posts: 1,419
Quote:
You clowns bitch and moan constantly about Jetstar. It wish to congratulate the Jetstar crew for not getting involved in this constant mindless dribble.
Now see what you have started.
airsupport is offline   Reply
Old 13th Dec 2009, 05:57   #16 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: australia
Posts: 167
Yes clever wasn't it. The clown who titled the thread should have named it." Flight cancellation policy in OZ"
captaintunedog777 is offline   Reply
Old 13th Dec 2009, 06:08   #17 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: temporarily geographically misplaced
Posts: 13
Certainly no bitching or moaning about Jetstar intended on my behalf.

I'd been using the old "they wouldn't do that, they only cancel flights due to maintenance or airworthiness issues, so stop bashing airlines" routine, and was told I was incorrect. Where else to go to confirm but PPRuNe?

Answers have been very much appreciated! (especially Blueloo's ).
frogfriday is offline   Reply
Old 13th Dec 2009, 07:18   #18 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 372
Does Jetstar cancel flight with lower loads? Yes.

This only really occurs if the schedule let it work, ie-most point to point sectors, not those via another virtual base then off to somewhere else before making its way back to the start. For instance, I flew a SYD-AVV flight on a Tuesday evening a few weeks back, and did this on purpose as I knew the previous flight which was 1hr earlier would be canceled (too much competition for a Tuesday to even cope now on this route). Mainly due to the last flight being a Avalon based A320 and the previous flight was a Avalon return I knew that it would still go ahead, even with the 30 pax that accompanied me. In fact, I would say the majority of Jetstar's cancellations lie on Avalon routes or to Coolangatta from Sydney.

And here we go, Jetstar's own Simone Pregellio even states it:

Quote:
A Jetstar spokeswoman said flights were sometimes cancelled for scheduling reasons if they could not be filled but that it was not a daily occurrence.

Last edited by Sunstar320; 13th Dec 2009 at 07:41.
Sunstar320 is offline   Reply
Old 13th Dec 2009, 07:28   #19 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Dunedin, NZ
Posts: 280
Frogfriday - you will get friendlier answers on Airliners.net | Airplanes - Aviation - Aircraft- Aircraft Photos & News, especially on the Australian thread, where you could ask the same question.
alangirvan is offline   Reply
Old 13th Dec 2009, 07:38   #20 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Brisbane
Age: 68
Posts: 1,419
Quote:
A Jetstar spokeswoman said flights were sometimes cancelled for scheduling reasons if they could not be filled but that it was not a daily occurrence.
Yes, as all Airlines in Australia have done for as long as I can remember.

And that is a LONG time.
airsupport is offline   Reply
Reply
 
 
 


Thread Tools


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT. The time now is 00:09.


vBulletin® v3.8.7, Copyright ©2000-2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
1996-2012 The Professional Pilots Rumour Network