Shortage of Pilots? How much do you reckon these guys will ask for as FOs for an Australian airline?
GLUT OF NEW PILOTS IN INDIA Yes, you read that right. As international organizations sound the alarm over a worldwide pilot shortage, as regional airlines in the U.S. and Australia cut routes because they lack cockpit crews and as airlines the world over shamelessly poach pilots from competitors, young pilots in India say there’s just too many of them. "Things are going from bad to worse," Gautam Singh, who’s been in the right seat of a budget carrier’s aircraft for 18 months, told The Times of India "But if I leave, there are 10 freshers waiting to take my place."
Suitably balanced by the accompanying story about the shortage of Captains there:
December 3, 2007 AVweb
Indian Government Streamlines Foreign Pilot Certification
U.S. ATPs who hit the age 60 wall at home can be flying for a living again in "a few days" in India thanks to a new certification process there. India is scrambling for qualified pilots as its industry grows and the deep well of experience from the U.S. is an obvious target (since Congress hasn't yet dealt with its own plans to raise the mandatory retirement age to 65). "In most countries, pilots from the U.S. who have crossed 60 years are allowed to fly anyway," unnamed "officials" told Daily News and Analysis, under the headline "Soon, More Senior Citizen Pilots In Indian Skies". Although India has been aggressively trying to train its own pilots, the rapid growth of airline travel in the emerging economic giant has outstripped demand. The industry needs 4,754 pilots but only has 3,950 homegrown pilots. "The shortfall is being met with foreign pilots. Currently, 804 foreign pilots are employed with various airlines," Civil Aviation Minister Praful Patel told the news service.
hmm that cant be right im enroled in a diploma course for my cpl with about 20 indian studnets they all say there is a massive shortage for pilots in india, so bad that they have reduced the required total time to work for an airline. something crazy like 250hours. and u can be on a boeing or airbus aircraft.
I think the first post is a bit strange too.* All reports and indicators here in the Middle East are that the Indian aviation industry is growing beyond it's means and they are desperate for pilots to fill the seats.* Between Air India, Indair, Express India and soon Kingfisher airlines, it's certainly keeping us ATCOs busy.* I can't honestly see how there is a glut.
If Australian companies wont employ you, then I say go for it. Nothing wrong with eating a curry or two working for an Indian airline. For some this will be their first Jet job, eg 777. With that endorsement, and a thousand hours, who cares what you did in GA. Choices too sell yourself across the world as a contract pilot or wait for Virgin International and try for direct entry. Good luck to all who go.
The shortage is of experienced airline pilots capable of sliding into the LHS of an airliner.
Up till now there has been ample numbers of experienced FO's around the world who are able to do this. Now there are not so many.
What airline managements are yet to fully comprehend is that these pilots have taken an absolute minimum of 10 years to get to that point from ab initio. MPL will probably fix the problem.... in 10 years time. Until then, any airline that wishes to expand is going to have to bite the bullet and increase its T & C's in order to lure the experienced pilots it needs right now away from whatever position they currently hold. The laws of supply and demand guarantee that this will happen.
In Australia, Qantas is the only airline with large stocks of experienced first and second officers available. That is good for Qantas, but they had better start to value them now before they lose them to other airlines desperate to keep their fleets flying.
Quote ; "The Original Jetpipe" "Go and have a look round Bankstown!! You could be in the middle of Bombay!! do not even mention the quality of the RT!!!"
Is that Right! then again it's those students from overseas (Be it India, China, Europe or Disneyland) are the ones giving the thriving local young instructors in Bankstown an oppurtunity to build their own precious hours whom have got bugger all experience in the first place to teach someone else ! Oh the wonders of flying into a GAAP "ATC;Follow the preceding 172......ABC; Which One" it's much tame now I hear
Quote ; "Capitaine72" "Just think those 250 hr pilots will have a command in two years!!!!"
Give us an example of one known case.... you indicate the pilots starting with 250 TT get command in a two year period of around 2000+ TT, would love to see one with log book evidence of operarting commercially. Remember all the machines there are nearly brand new or well into the modern World, no manufacturer and/or airline with half a brain cell is going to allow any under performed commands of these machines in that complex environment. It starts at the C&T basically. Any C & T who allows Command upgrades because of the nature of the country and company pressures shouldn't be one (be it Disneyland, Australia, Indonesia, China or India). Get over it you arm chair instructors !
Like Some other people have mentioned it's getting a bit saturated in the bottom end of the scale, takes under a year to pump a freshie out, So Mr Singh better get over the fact that just because one gets a licence out of a flying school it doesn't mean you are all good to go to walk around calling yourself a Kapitaan.... "It's a licence to Learn !! "
At this stage the demand seems to be more on the top end of the scale for DEC's TRE's and so on. Basically anyone with time on type or similar and with some common sense.
My two cents worth or was it two rupee worth !!
ps ; Pappadums & Gaarlic Naan...yummo
Last edited by SmoothCriminal; 5th Dec 2007 at 14:47.
Our airline "borrowed" a couple of pilots from the sub continent recently and had to send a few home as they did not make the grade.A 500hr jet jockey in the right seat in India on the ng typically does not fly the aeroplane.He puts the gear up and puts it down again .No landings until around 900 hrs and then with qualified captains only.How on earth do they get the experience....let alone be ready for a command at 1500 hours.Yes, there is a shortage alright......for EXPERIENCED pilots.That comes at a price!!!!$$$$$:
Indian airlines are going to have to up their pay and conditions seriously to attract pilots from OZ or any where in the world in fact. India versus OZ, Europe or the US. Yeah doesn't really quite compare does it.
Like Flying Fijian mentioned, most F/Os don't touch the controls. It's pretty much single pilot jet flying, a hangover from Imperial days prior I guess, even though there are alot of "CPLs" around looking for the big gig (with their Garlic Naan and/or Pappadums ).
I've witnessed very poor handling skill, co-ordination, anticipation and common sense from those from the subcontinent... one could possibly say that they simply aren't meant to fly... but I have seen this in students from China and many Australian new recruits also, for that matter. It all comes down to flying experience, after having been taught well.
30 years ago BK was infested with hopefuls from PNG enrolled with 'Banana Fernandez Aviation'. Mostly the same skill levels as the telephone pests who invade our privacy daily with offers from telcos and try to pretend they are calling from Oz when your caller ID clearly says 'overseas call'. Our old CFI flew with a couple of them for twin endorsement and nearly came to grief. Recall him coming back and telling us what he said -
'I survived 24hr missions in Sunderlands and the Germans and I'm damned sure no bk bd is going to kill me in an aeroplane at Bankstown' Not PC, but ..
Is that Right! then again it's those students from overseas (Be it India, China, Europe or Disneyland) are the ones giving the thriving local young instructors in Bankstown an oppurtunity to build their own precious hours whom have got bugger all experience in the first place to teach someone else !
Come on mate, thats not entirely fair. I know that there are plenty of hour building instructors out there, but many Gr3s (myself included) put in the time and effort to do our job properly, and take pride in doing it right. I know what happens in a stall, I know how to land a plane, I know how to navigate and I know how to help someone else understand and do these things. I know that I'm nowhere near as good at it as the 10000 hour guys, but then the newbie in kunners isn't anywhere near as good at charter as the guy with experience either, and if I feel that my lack of instructing experience is preventing a student from progressing properly, I'll put them up with someone who has that experience.
So Mr Singh better get over the fact that just because one gets a licence out of a flying school it doesn't mean you are all good to go to walk around calling yourself a Kapitaan.... "It's a licence to Learn !! "
Agreed! Gotta feel sorry for the guy though, goes straight to work in an airliner and doesn't even get command in the first year. Someone obviously has it in for the guy...
I know that I'm nowhere near as good at it as the 10000 hour guys...
I wouldn't be so sure mate. The simplest planes I've ever flown are jets. The hours may only help you make (good) descisions, provided you have had appropriate exposure and training. A fair proportion of my flying is with pilots with way less than 500 hours and they can all hack it, so I'm sure you can.
Thanks fpr your comments "Cap'n Arrr" Much appreciated. I do agree that I was unfair on naming the instructor group in genereal. Apologies to any of those instructors whom infact deserve a tip top for their efforts with immaculate experience.
I wouldn't be here where I am without some of the instructors (Country NSW and Country VIC aey')that trained me through my earlier with the right basics....you know the stick and rudder especially on a tailwheel which teaches you those pedals down there are not foot rests and ground steer things !
"Piltdown Man" Hats off for the comment Chief....perhaps CASA could derive a question out of that for their Human Factors exam...... will fly with you in any capacity any day
Seems like nafeezaali216 had one too many kegs before posting