Freedom Boeing 737 grounded
I seem to recall many years ago that there was a facilities engineer at Ansett who spent a lot of his time working out exactly where those little yellow lines should go so that various sized aircraft would miss the wingtips of other various sized aircraft.
And of course Ansett never lost a wingtip that way - instead we busted the wingtip off a B767 on a Hangar door- when the heavy maintenance supervisor was the responsible wing walker no less!!
And of course Ansett never lost a wingtip that way - instead we busted the wingtip off a B767 on a Hangar door- when the heavy maintenance supervisor was the responsible wing walker no less!!
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Quim,
were you at the scene of the incident? In the flightdeck perhaps? or maybe involved in the nearby works? Do you know all of the facts and human factors involved?
If not, then shut the f@#k up!
There most certainly are times when you dont follow those pretty lines that apparently absolve you from all responsibility. One example was only last month at Coolangatta during works to the northern part of the apron, on taxying southbound past the tower and onto the apron, aircraft ALL aircraft were asked to disregard markings and veer around the works.
Would you follow a line over a cliff? Or would you have to go through your pooncy uni notes to find out?
were you at the scene of the incident? In the flightdeck perhaps? or maybe involved in the nearby works? Do you know all of the facts and human factors involved?
If not, then shut the f@#k up!
There most certainly are times when you dont follow those pretty lines that apparently absolve you from all responsibility. One example was only last month at Coolangatta during works to the northern part of the apron, on taxying southbound past the tower and onto the apron, aircraft ALL aircraft were asked to disregard markings and veer around the works.
Would you follow a line over a cliff? Or would you have to go through your pooncy uni notes to find out?
Last edited by Mr.Buzzy; 5th Oct 2004 at 21:55.
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Looks like he may have mistaken the yellow side lines for the centre taxilines. Cant recall if taxiway P has side or centre lighting (as this did hapen at night) , Maybe the Captain got confused.
Taxied past said 737 twice on Tuesday morning. Had a great view of situation as follows.
- Nose gear and right main gear still on concrete of taxi-way P not far past the corner off E towards Rwy27,
- Left main on bitumen shoulder and bogged up to rims in a +2m trench of increasing depth, and
- Evidently pax deplaned through a set of stairs at right-front
- much activity re a solution.
Both of us in our flight deck were mortified for the pilots involved... no-one does this on purpose!
- Nose gear and right main gear still on concrete of taxi-way P not far past the corner off E towards Rwy27,
- Left main on bitumen shoulder and bogged up to rims in a +2m trench of increasing depth, and
- Evidently pax deplaned through a set of stairs at right-front
- much activity re a solution.
Both of us in our flight deck were mortified for the pilots involved... no-one does this on purpose!
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Maybe so, but the lines are there for a reason. They protect you from this sort of problem. I would be surprised if there was not a NOTAM out detailing the work and the permitted use (or not) of the new tarmac, so they should have known.
Mr.Buzzy
The point that your pompous little rant doesn't recognise, is that when you are asked to deviate from a centreline, a lot of work goes into ensuring clearances are maintained, and that the new route doesn't expose the crew or aircraft danger. If you are on the centreline (or approved other path) you are, essentially, absolved from responsibility if you suddenly find the taxiway turns to quicksand.
A taxiway centreline is a bit like an altitude clearance, there to be followed. Whatever the reason for it (misunderstanding, distraction, whatever) the human factors here will be simple. It doesn't require a uni background to figure that out!
Sometimes, the responsibility of being the captain involves simply raising your hand and saying "I screwed up".
You may understand this when you graduate from Flight Sim 2000.
Mr.Buzzy
There most certainly are times when you dont follow those pretty lines that apparently absolve you from all responsibility.
A taxiway centreline is a bit like an altitude clearance, there to be followed. Whatever the reason for it (misunderstanding, distraction, whatever) the human factors here will be simple. It doesn't require a uni background to figure that out!
Sometimes, the responsibility of being the captain involves simply raising your hand and saying "I screwed up".
You may understand this when you graduate from Flight Sim 2000.
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Come on chaps and chappesses...........................its a mintys moment we all make mistakes and I'm sure this crew are feeling like absolute twats about it.
Don't you all think we should what to see what the findings are in a week or so.
splat
Don't you all think we should what to see what the findings are in a week or so.
splat
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When these guys taxied out there was MAE in the vicinity, with all those lights on full intensity for the WIP. It was dark at the time and as the poor buggers taxied they were blinded by the surface lighting. I believe they were going very slow at the time to compensate for their lack of visibility.
All you little child experts are just so close to your first big major stuff up it just aint funny. I look forward to laughing at your expense. Why to they develop and maintain such a disgusting arrogance with you lot? Such sub human behaviour is abhorrent and you bring ridicule to our industry.
All you little child experts are just so close to your first big major stuff up it just aint funny. I look forward to laughing at your expense. Why to they develop and maintain such a disgusting arrogance with you lot? Such sub human behaviour is abhorrent and you bring ridicule to our industry.
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Was he cutting corners? Has that been irrevocably established yet?
As already mentioned, he could have been following the wrong line of lights, blue instead of green, from the overhead shot he was well short of the corner anyway and straight fore and aft aligned with the taxiway side line.
As already mentioned, he could have been following the wrong line of lights, blue instead of green, from the overhead shot he was well short of the corner anyway and straight fore and aft aligned with the taxiway side line.
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Not sure Blue Eagle, ask some of the cadets, they apparently have a splendid view from the jumpseat and are able to tell us all how it happened.
Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Play nice kiddies!
Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Play nice kiddies!
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When are some of you people going to wake up.
sperm bank
If you can't see where you are going, you stop and request a "follow me". Or do you just continue taxying blind? I mean, would you drive down the road if you couldn't see where you were going? Being unable to see is absolutely no excuse - you STOP.
The reason that most of us are NOT close to our first major stuff up, is that we don't taxi when we can't see, or follow the wrong lights, or not read the NOTAMs. This is called airmanship.
In all the airports around the world that I have operated into, in many different countries, green is standard taxiway centreline lighting and blue is edge lighting. This is ICAO standard from memory. The green is usually switchable at major airports, to show you which taxiway/exit/holding point to use. They should have known, or at the very least checked if they weren't sure, or even just read the taxi chart, which is where that information lives.
It may have been a Minties moment, but in many airlines it would be a demotion or a sacking, and it's hard to question the logic of that. Very funny, I'm sure...
I can only assume that some of you have no knowledge of airline ops, to come up with some of this nonsense.
sperm bank
If you can't see where you are going, you stop and request a "follow me". Or do you just continue taxying blind? I mean, would you drive down the road if you couldn't see where you were going? Being unable to see is absolutely no excuse - you STOP.
The reason that most of us are NOT close to our first major stuff up, is that we don't taxi when we can't see, or follow the wrong lights, or not read the NOTAMs. This is called airmanship.
In all the airports around the world that I have operated into, in many different countries, green is standard taxiway centreline lighting and blue is edge lighting. This is ICAO standard from memory. The green is usually switchable at major airports, to show you which taxiway/exit/holding point to use. They should have known, or at the very least checked if they weren't sure, or even just read the taxi chart, which is where that information lives.
It may have been a Minties moment, but in many airlines it would be a demotion or a sacking, and it's hard to question the logic of that. Very funny, I'm sure...
I can only assume that some of you have no knowledge of airline ops, to come up with some of this nonsense.
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Blue eagle,the nose wheel and the left mains were both well outside the outer taxiway edge line. They were way off the taxi way centre line marking. As I say they may well have been blinded by all the works in progress. Not making excuses for them but it goes some way to understanding why it happened. No-one in their right mind would have cut in that far intentionally. This type of incident serves as a LESSON to all of us, even you space cadets. We are ALL fallible.
MOR, the day I need a lesson from the likes of you mate I will give it away. You are a disaster waiting to happen. Your arrogance speaks volumes!
MOR, the day I need a lesson from the likes of you mate I will give it away. You are a disaster waiting to happen. Your arrogance speaks volumes!
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The reason that most of us are NOT close to our first major stuff up, is that we don't taxi when we can't see, or follow the wrong lights, or not read the NOTAMs. This is called airmanship.
You cannot possibly be serious MOR!
Its the same old story. Involve people and incidents will happen, regardless of your remuneration! Lets not enter a pissing contest over it. Its been said already, this crew didnt get bogged on purpose, it's not the first or the last time this sort of thing will happen. Time to move on...next thread please.
Vote 1........... SpermBank
Oh and quim, in twelve months time, tell us what it's like to work for Jet*...........
bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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MOR
You need to lighten up a little
It was an attempt to stop the slagging of a crew who I am sure are pissed with themselves and now feeling the pressure.
Take that chill pill and realise that some of us have more airline experience than you think (or NOT)
.
The world has billions of people on it and we all have different views. You could perhaps stop being arrogant and learn to accept others opinions.
You may learn something
splat
You need to lighten up a little
It was an attempt to stop the slagging of a crew who I am sure are pissed with themselves and now feeling the pressure.
Take that chill pill and realise that some of us have more airline experience than you think (or NOT)
. The world has billions of people on it and we all have different views. You could perhaps stop being arrogant and learn to accept others opinions.
You may learn something
splat
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Perhaps we should realise that it's not only LCC who are vunerable to such incidents - after all, the SAME two pilots would have made the SAME mistake in a QF 733 or a DJ73NG or a JQ717.
This preconceived notion that LCC are such waiting time-bombs is nonsense.
Name one major airline in the world who HASN'T had an accident...
And to think even an airline pilot on a severe ego trip should be able to realise that!
Soulman.
This preconceived notion that LCC are such waiting time-bombs is nonsense.
Name one major airline in the world who HASN'T had an accident...
And to think even an airline pilot on a severe ego trip should be able to realise that!
Soulman.
Last edited by Soulman; 6th Oct 2004 at 13:20.
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sperm bank
And you call me arrogant! Go look in a mirror.
Mr. Buzzy
Ah OK then, so it OK to ignore centreline markers and lights, and just fine to taxi if you can't see where you are going. I see. Thank you for that lesson in professionalism (not).
splatgothebugs
If you can't tell the difference between arrogance and common sense, maybe you ARE an accident waiting to happen
splatgothebugs
I wasn't stating opinions, I was stating facts.
If you can't tell the difference between arrogance and common sense...
MOR, the day I need a lesson from the likes of you mate I will give it away. You are a disaster waiting to happen. Your arrogance speaks volumes!
Mr. Buzzy
You cannot possibly be serious MOR!
splatgothebugs
If you can't tell the difference between arrogance and common sense, maybe you ARE an accident waiting to happen
splatgothebugs
You could perhaps stop being arrogant and learn to accept others opinions.
If you can't tell the difference between arrogance and common sense...