Qantas jets in near collision
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Qantas jets in near collision
news.com.au
Jets seconds from catastrophe
By Darrell Giles
February 15, 2004
AN investigation is under way after two Qantas jets were involved in a terrifying near-miss at Brisbane Airport.
A Boeing 737 aircraft with about 150 passengers had to abort a landing at the last moment to avoid crashing into another plane sitting on the runway on Friday night. Passengers yesterday said the jets were only a matter of seconds away from disaster in the incident, which happened just before 6pm.
One of the frightened passengers was federal MP Bob Katter.
"We were only a few feet from bumping down, perhaps half a second away . . . then he switched on the throttle," said the Independent member for the north Queensland electorate of Kennedy.
"I was scared for my life and I don't scare easy. Something is terribly wrong if one plane is coming into land and another is sitting on the runway.
"I personally intend to find out what went wrong."
The Air Transport Safety Bureau's duty investigator, John Robbins, initiated the investigation yesterday.
Mr Robbins said radar tapes and recordings of communication between air traffic controllers and the aircraft would be examined in detail.
He said it was very rare for a plane to abort a landing at such a low altitude.
Mr Robbins said it was possible the departing plane was granted permission to make an early, rapid take-off but was too slow in responding to the instruction.
"That's all speculation until we hear the transmissions. There are so many possibilities," he said.
Airservices Australia - responsible for air traffic control and navigation - and Qantas both confirmed the incident.
Qantas spokesman Simon Rushton said the Sydney-Brisbane flight QF542 was forced to "go around" because of the obstruction on the tarmac.
Mr Rushton said there were no reports of injuries to passengers or crew.
Airservices Australia spokesman David Gray said an initial report of the incident found a Qantas aircraft had "sat too long" on the runway due to a "communication problem".
He was unclear of the distance between the two jets when the pilot of QF542 was forced to take emergency action and take to the sky again.
Mr Gray said there was no problem with the "go around" manoeuvre. "The only issue we have is in regard to traffic separation," he said.
The incident is likely to escalate concerns over the controversial new air traffic control regulations.
The National Airspace System, introduced in November, has been widely criticised within the aviation industry.
The Air Transport Safety Bureau last month called for a review of the system after a series of mid-air near-collisions.
Federal Transport Minister John Anderson is expected to announce changes to NAS soon.
Mr Katter was concerned the near- collision could have been caused by the changes to air traffic regulations, which allowed light aircraft to share airspace with commercial jets.
Pilots and air traffic controllers say the new rules endanger the lives of passengers.
Airservices Australia chairman John Forsyth resigned this week without public explanation, amid growing speculation the Federal Government is about to reverse large sections of the new air rules.
"I was disturbed by the changes," Mr Katter said. "It has certainly compromised safety for no obvious benefit."
Mr Katter, who takes hundreds of flights every year, said it was the first time he had been on a commercial plane that had to abort its landing.
"I have been in a lot of tight situations in small planes, but nothing like that," he said. "If he had landed, then his ability to take off again would have been severely restricted -- the wheels were almost on the tarmac."
Another passenger, Philip Castle, a lecturer in journalism at Queensland University of Technology in Brisbane, said the flight had been delayed after having to skirt the edge of a storm over the Gold Coast.
"We were coming into land at Brisbane -- we were, I would estimate, about one to three seconds from touching down," he said. "Suddenly the pilot powered up and let fly. It was a complete surprise."
Mr Castle, an occasional pilot, said the decision to abort appeared "very late . . . I think he was right on the limit".
He said some passengers were obviously concerned as the plane elevated rapidly and headed out towards Moreton Bay.
Mr Castle questioned why it was not obvious sooner that a plane was on the runway and a decision to abort the landing was not taken 30-45 seconds earlier.
"It was a potentially life-threatening situation," he said.
The Sunday Mail (Qld)
===========================================
Jets seconds from catastrophe
By Darrell Giles
February 15, 2004
AN investigation is under way after two Qantas jets were involved in a terrifying near-miss at Brisbane Airport.
A Boeing 737 aircraft with about 150 passengers had to abort a landing at the last moment to avoid crashing into another plane sitting on the runway on Friday night. Passengers yesterday said the jets were only a matter of seconds away from disaster in the incident, which happened just before 6pm.
One of the frightened passengers was federal MP Bob Katter.
"We were only a few feet from bumping down, perhaps half a second away . . . then he switched on the throttle," said the Independent member for the north Queensland electorate of Kennedy.
"I was scared for my life and I don't scare easy. Something is terribly wrong if one plane is coming into land and another is sitting on the runway.
"I personally intend to find out what went wrong."
The Air Transport Safety Bureau's duty investigator, John Robbins, initiated the investigation yesterday.
Mr Robbins said radar tapes and recordings of communication between air traffic controllers and the aircraft would be examined in detail.
He said it was very rare for a plane to abort a landing at such a low altitude.
Mr Robbins said it was possible the departing plane was granted permission to make an early, rapid take-off but was too slow in responding to the instruction.
"That's all speculation until we hear the transmissions. There are so many possibilities," he said.
Airservices Australia - responsible for air traffic control and navigation - and Qantas both confirmed the incident.
Qantas spokesman Simon Rushton said the Sydney-Brisbane flight QF542 was forced to "go around" because of the obstruction on the tarmac.
Mr Rushton said there were no reports of injuries to passengers or crew.
Airservices Australia spokesman David Gray said an initial report of the incident found a Qantas aircraft had "sat too long" on the runway due to a "communication problem".
He was unclear of the distance between the two jets when the pilot of QF542 was forced to take emergency action and take to the sky again.
Mr Gray said there was no problem with the "go around" manoeuvre. "The only issue we have is in regard to traffic separation," he said.
The incident is likely to escalate concerns over the controversial new air traffic control regulations.
The National Airspace System, introduced in November, has been widely criticised within the aviation industry.
The Air Transport Safety Bureau last month called for a review of the system after a series of mid-air near-collisions.
Federal Transport Minister John Anderson is expected to announce changes to NAS soon.
Mr Katter was concerned the near- collision could have been caused by the changes to air traffic regulations, which allowed light aircraft to share airspace with commercial jets.
Pilots and air traffic controllers say the new rules endanger the lives of passengers.
Airservices Australia chairman John Forsyth resigned this week without public explanation, amid growing speculation the Federal Government is about to reverse large sections of the new air rules.
"I was disturbed by the changes," Mr Katter said. "It has certainly compromised safety for no obvious benefit."
Mr Katter, who takes hundreds of flights every year, said it was the first time he had been on a commercial plane that had to abort its landing.
"I have been in a lot of tight situations in small planes, but nothing like that," he said. "If he had landed, then his ability to take off again would have been severely restricted -- the wheels were almost on the tarmac."
Another passenger, Philip Castle, a lecturer in journalism at Queensland University of Technology in Brisbane, said the flight had been delayed after having to skirt the edge of a storm over the Gold Coast.
"We were coming into land at Brisbane -- we were, I would estimate, about one to three seconds from touching down," he said. "Suddenly the pilot powered up and let fly. It was a complete surprise."
Mr Castle, an occasional pilot, said the decision to abort appeared "very late . . . I think he was right on the limit".
He said some passengers were obviously concerned as the plane elevated rapidly and headed out towards Moreton Bay.
Mr Castle questioned why it was not obvious sooner that a plane was on the runway and a decision to abort the landing was not taken 30-45 seconds earlier.
"It was a potentially life-threatening situation," he said.
The Sunday Mail (Qld)
===========================================
Last edited by Wirraway; 15th Feb 2004 at 04:21.
It goes to show that Bob Katter doesn't know poo from brown clay
HEADLINE....PILOTS AND CONTROLLERS DO THE RIGHT THING - NOTHING UNTOWARD RESULTS!
Dear oh dear - more responsible reporting from our esteemed press
HEADLINE....PILOTS AND CONTROLLERS DO THE RIGHT THING - NOTHING UNTOWARD RESULTS!
Dear oh dear - more responsible reporting from our esteemed press
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This sounds like the exact same words used in a similar incident in Sydney a few years ago. I thought I was actually reading the same report. 1-3 seconds to touchdown go around? Those babies would have hit anyway.
While I agree NAS is a piece of shiat, I think it is a bit much blaming it in this situation (on face value).
While I agree NAS is a piece of shiat, I think it is a bit much blaming it in this situation (on face value).
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ABC News Online
Sunday, February 15, 2004. 8:05am (AEDT)
Authorities downplay Brisbane airport incident
The organisation responsible for air traffic control and navigation is downplaying reports of a near-miss involving two Qantas jets at Brisbane airport.
Airservices Australia has confirmed that a Sydney to Brisbane flight carrying 150 passengers was initially unable to land on Friday night.
A spokesman says the pilot of the Boeing 737 decided to go around again after having some communication problems.
He says the problem arose when the aircraft arrived late and all air traffic control frequencies were busy.
But he says reports of a second Qantas aircraft blocking the runway are incorrect.
He says Airservices is satisfied there was no major problem and that the pilot adopted standard operating procedures.
===========================================
Sunday, February 15, 2004. 8:05am (AEDT)
Authorities downplay Brisbane airport incident
The organisation responsible for air traffic control and navigation is downplaying reports of a near-miss involving two Qantas jets at Brisbane airport.
Airservices Australia has confirmed that a Sydney to Brisbane flight carrying 150 passengers was initially unable to land on Friday night.
A spokesman says the pilot of the Boeing 737 decided to go around again after having some communication problems.
He says the problem arose when the aircraft arrived late and all air traffic control frequencies were busy.
But he says reports of a second Qantas aircraft blocking the runway are incorrect.
He says Airservices is satisfied there was no major problem and that the pilot adopted standard operating procedures.
===========================================
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Gee whiz, I have no idea how I could accuse the good ol’ Aussie media of misleading sensationalist reporting! 
Didn’t know you could “switch off” a throttle. Do we “bump down” these days? I was taught to land…….
A go-around is “emergency action”?!?!?
Really likes to demonstrate his complete ignorance, doesn’t he??
Well sitting down the back reading newspapers and stuffing himself with food and drink OBVIOUSLY makes him an expert on all matter aviation!!
A VERY occasional pilot, obviously. The more occasional the better I think.
Maybe time for a Bex and a wee nap...................
feet from bumping down, perhaps half a second away . . . then he switched on the throttle
pilot of QF542 was forced to take emergency action and take to the sky again.
Mr Katter was concerned the near- collision could have been caused by the changes to air traffic regulations, which allowed light aircraft to share airspace with commercial jets.
who takes hundreds of flights every year,
"Suddenly the pilot powered up and let fly. It was a complete surprise."
Maybe time for a Bex and a wee nap...................
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What can I say.........good old Aussie press at it again.
What a bunch of w@nkers.
And thank God we have pollies like Mr Katter who are so well informed on matters aviation......NOT !!!
What a bunch of w@nkers.
And thank God we have pollies like Mr Katter who are so well informed on matters aviation......NOT !!!
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Mr Katter was concerned the near- collision could have been caused by the changes to air traffic regulations, which allowed light aircraft to share airspace with commercial jets.
Who can blame his concern with all the bad press NAS has been getting.
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If the ozzies had the same procedures in place as the French, this would not have happened. When I was o/s, on first contact with CDG tower, you were given the wind direction and strength then cleared to land. There may have been 3 or 4 a/c in front of you for the same rwy but it ALWAYS worked. The only additional info passed was if the a/c directly in front was a heavy.
They leave it up to pilot discretion to "accept the waiver" for wake turb, why can't we take the initiative and just land the a/c if the rwy is clear?
It is difficult to mandate common sense, but I think we need to wake up in this country and stop all this procedural garbage from stifling a common sense approach to resolve a minor situation.
Losing comms through congestion or equipment failure on short final should under no circumstance require a go around. The fact is in many other countries they could have landed without a clearance without incident. In Australia's current climate of culturally enhancing dobbing, is it little wonder people are afraid to exercise their better judgement.
Australian rule makers, welcome to the 21st century .
They leave it up to pilot discretion to "accept the waiver" for wake turb, why can't we take the initiative and just land the a/c if the rwy is clear?
It is difficult to mandate common sense, but I think we need to wake up in this country and stop all this procedural garbage from stifling a common sense approach to resolve a minor situation.
Losing comms through congestion or equipment failure on short final should under no circumstance require a go around. The fact is in many other countries they could have landed without a clearance without incident. In Australia's current climate of culturally enhancing dobbing, is it little wonder people are afraid to exercise their better judgement.
Australian rule makers, welcome to the 21st century .
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Unbelievable journalism
Said article has now been withdrawn from news.com.au site
but still remains in the Adelaide "Sunday Mail" and Sunday
"Courier Mail" sites.
http://www.ecola.com/go/?f=&r=oc&u=w...daymail.com.au
http://www.ecola.com/go/?f=&r=oc&u=w...iermail.com.au
Wirraway
Said article has now been withdrawn from news.com.au site
but still remains in the Adelaide "Sunday Mail" and Sunday
"Courier Mail" sites.
http://www.ecola.com/go/?f=&r=oc&u=w...daymail.com.au
http://www.ecola.com/go/?f=&r=oc&u=w...iermail.com.au
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Jeez with Bob Katter's extensive aviation knowledge, that is "flying hundreds of time a year", maybe he should head up an airspace reform group. He couldn't do a worse job than has been done, and you never know he might listen to the proffessionals rather than relying on advice from the amateur end of town.
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From The Daily Blog.
150 Passengers in Mid-Air Drama. Reports today of yesterdays mid-air drama in which 150 passengers spent 70 terrifying minutes flying without the wheels down wilst the pilots wrestled with the crippled jet trying to find somewhere to land. Witnesses on the ground also told of their fears when shortly after take-off from Sydney, the landing gear disappeared into the belly of the aircraft. Bill Bogan of Sydney told us " My grandmother was on that flight going home to Melbourne. Just after the pilot did the take off trick thing, the wheels just disappeared into nowhere. I knew right then there was danger because the plane needs wheels to land". National Party Member for Western Queensland, Mr Malcolm Ecks, said "This was terrifying. After we were in the air, there was a kind of a bump noise and then I knew we were in big trouble. I've seen many pictures of aeroplanes before so I know what I'm talking about" Reports came in of how the pilots circled the entire eastern sea board for just over an hour before electing for an emergency landing at Melbourne. Myrtle McIntire tells of panicing crew memebers. "The hostessess were in a complete panic. They sort of wandered about asking the passenges if we wanted something eat. All I could think of was that I would never see my pet Chou, Moppet, again". At 3:37pm EST, the aircraft made an emergecy landing in Melbourne with airport rescue services on full emergency department standby status category 9. Fortunately there were no reported injuries. However, departmental and airline representatives have refused to comment further on this incident save for staunch denials that yesterdays incident has anything to do with the newly introduced NAS.
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Have I correctly understood that the go around was caused not by a runway incursion, but the lack of a landing clearance due to coms failure or whatever?Surely if you can see the runway is clear, and you have no other indication that you are not cleared to land, captain's discretion would dictate that a low level GA is not the safer/best option? I'm sure it would also have prevented the ignorant ravings of Mr Katter and the like.
On the positive side, I am so pleased that the pilot did in fact decide to switch the throttle on prior to going around - especially when they were so close to 'bumping down'.
and you have no other indication that you are not cleared to land
If it's OK to breach these rules - where do you draw the line?
There in NOTHING unsafe about a missed approach - I used to do up to 10 a day when teaching circuits - I wasn't flying!! - and I would say a major airline the size of QF would probably average one every few days (as a rough guess). It's a routine procedure.
It just gets better and better. Now I know why I always cock up missed approaches in the sim..... the aircraft "has lost all of its aerodynamic performance" and it is a "very difficult if not a dangerous manoeuvre". Well, I won't be going around again now that I know this! Press on and land....
From The Sunday Herald:
Call for investigation of plane incident
February 15, 2004 - 1:14PM
An incident at Brisbane airport in which a Qantas pilot aborted a landing at the last minute should be fully investigated, federal MP Bob Katter said today.
The Queensland independent MP and opposition frontbencher Wayne Swan were passengers on the 737 aircraft flying from Sydney to Brisbane on Friday with about 150 passengers on board.
"It was a very bad situation and someone has a lot of questions to answer," Mr Katter said.
Mr Katter said he would be demanding a full investigation when Federal Parliament sat this week.
Some reports have said the pilot was forced to apply power to the aircraft engines and "go around" because there was another aircraft on the runway.
But both Qantas and the Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB) have denied another aircraft was involved.
"The pilot had not received final clearance to land and in accordance with Qantas procedures applied power and went around again," Qantas spokesman Simon Rushton said.
"There was no other aircraft involved, there was no near miss and there is nothing to investigate."
An ATSB official said while there was an incident at the airport no other aircraft was involved.
He said the ATSB would examine radar tapes and tapes of conversations at the time of the incident, which appeared to be a "complete non-event".
"It seems the aircraft went around again but until we examine the tapes we won't know the exact reason," he said.
The spokesman said all pilots were trained to go around if they were not happy with the conditions for landing.
A spokesman for Airservices Australia, which handles air traffic control, said there had never been any danger of a collision and dismissed newspaper reports of a near miss.
He said the pilot of the 737 had had trouble getting clearance to land because of the number of other radio transmissions from other aircraft.
"The pilot then made the decision to go around," he said.
"As far as Airservices Australia is concerned this is a standard operation and there were no aircraft separation issues."
Mr Swan said the pilot of the Qantas plane had told passengers there was another aircraft on the runway.
"I only know what the pilot told passengers, and that was that (aborting the landing) was because there was another plane on the runway," Mr Swan said.
"There was no panic on the plane, and I had no sense of danger."
Mr Katter said it did not matter whether there was another aircraft involved or not.
"We were just on the point of the rubber (tyres) hitting the tarmac but instead of putting the plane down the pilot put the accelerator down," Mr Katter said.
"The aircraft had lost all of its aerodynamic performance and this would have been a very difficult if not a dangerous manoeuvre."
"It really scared me."
From The Sunday Herald:
Call for investigation of plane incident
February 15, 2004 - 1:14PM
An incident at Brisbane airport in which a Qantas pilot aborted a landing at the last minute should be fully investigated, federal MP Bob Katter said today.
The Queensland independent MP and opposition frontbencher Wayne Swan were passengers on the 737 aircraft flying from Sydney to Brisbane on Friday with about 150 passengers on board.
"It was a very bad situation and someone has a lot of questions to answer," Mr Katter said.
Mr Katter said he would be demanding a full investigation when Federal Parliament sat this week.
Some reports have said the pilot was forced to apply power to the aircraft engines and "go around" because there was another aircraft on the runway.
But both Qantas and the Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB) have denied another aircraft was involved.
"The pilot had not received final clearance to land and in accordance with Qantas procedures applied power and went around again," Qantas spokesman Simon Rushton said.
"There was no other aircraft involved, there was no near miss and there is nothing to investigate."
An ATSB official said while there was an incident at the airport no other aircraft was involved.
He said the ATSB would examine radar tapes and tapes of conversations at the time of the incident, which appeared to be a "complete non-event".
"It seems the aircraft went around again but until we examine the tapes we won't know the exact reason," he said.
The spokesman said all pilots were trained to go around if they were not happy with the conditions for landing.
A spokesman for Airservices Australia, which handles air traffic control, said there had never been any danger of a collision and dismissed newspaper reports of a near miss.
He said the pilot of the 737 had had trouble getting clearance to land because of the number of other radio transmissions from other aircraft.
"The pilot then made the decision to go around," he said.
"As far as Airservices Australia is concerned this is a standard operation and there were no aircraft separation issues."
Mr Swan said the pilot of the Qantas plane had told passengers there was another aircraft on the runway.
"I only know what the pilot told passengers, and that was that (aborting the landing) was because there was another plane on the runway," Mr Swan said.
"There was no panic on the plane, and I had no sense of danger."
Mr Katter said it did not matter whether there was another aircraft involved or not.
"We were just on the point of the rubber (tyres) hitting the tarmac but instead of putting the plane down the pilot put the accelerator down," Mr Katter said.
"The aircraft had lost all of its aerodynamic performance and this would have been a very difficult if not a dangerous manoeuvre."
"It really scared me."
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Shooting's too good for Mr Katter. It's a good kick up the @rse he needs....
If anyone would like to comment directly to the man, here's his email address:
[email protected]
This guy should be made to publicly apologise for his wildly eratic, dafamatory and irrational comments.
I thought he'd been banned from QF aircraft anyway; I seem to remember he'd been kicked off previously due to unruly behaviour on board???
Perhaps this is his idea of revenge...?
And along the same lines, The Sunday Mail should be complimented on their journalistic excellence. Heres the email address of their editor:
[email protected]
These people are just as culpable as the "honourable" MP.
If anyone would like to comment directly to the man, here's his email address:
[email protected]
This guy should be made to publicly apologise for his wildly eratic, dafamatory and irrational comments.
I thought he'd been banned from QF aircraft anyway; I seem to remember he'd been kicked off previously due to unruly behaviour on board???
Perhaps this is his idea of revenge...?
And along the same lines, The Sunday Mail should be complimented on their journalistic excellence. Heres the email address of their editor:
[email protected]
These people are just as culpable as the "honourable" MP.