3 cheers for the LACC boys and girls....
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2002
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From: top of the (aviation) world
3 cheers for the LACC boys and girls....
... for trying to achieve what management have yearned for, but never dreamed of actually doing, for years i.e. split the ATCO union into Airports and Area. I'll be passing on my support. Roll on the 2002 Prospect Conference (and to dividing and permanently conquering, of course!).
Cheers Suckers
Cheers Suckers
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 58
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From: UK
Richard Everest, (not a.k.a.) The Chairman,
you clearly are a cock!
LACC have done nothing to split airfields and centres over anything this year. The only thing which is current and could possibly upset your small brain is pay and overtime. Both of which were negotiated centrally with the majority of reps being from LTCC and EGCC. Engage brain and have the decency to state what is bothering you, and what poxy little unit you work at.
you clearly are a cock!
LACC have done nothing to split airfields and centres over anything this year. The only thing which is current and could possibly upset your small brain is pay and overtime. Both of which were negotiated centrally with the majority of reps being from LTCC and EGCC. Engage brain and have the decency to state what is bothering you, and what poxy little unit you work at.
Joined: Jul 2002
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From: Out on the bike in Northumberland
dty cln
dont work for nats-however could not let that comment pass 'what poxy little unit you work at'-it would appear that now you only count in ATC if you work in a unit of certain size, preferably one with no windows?
having read many posts over the last few months I would say that there is definitely a sense that only AC matters-sorry but wrong!!
dont work for nats-however could not let that comment pass 'what poxy little unit you work at'-it would appear that now you only count in ATC if you work in a unit of certain size, preferably one with no windows?
having read many posts over the last few months I would say that there is definitely a sense that only AC matters-sorry but wrong!!
niknak
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,335
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From: UK
Prof,
I don't know.
I've re read the original post 3 times and still don't understand it.
But that's not a real suprise, cos I'm a Prospect member, an atco, and work at an airport that is larger than some but inversly bigger than others, with only a modicum of pox.
I don't know.
I've re read the original post 3 times and still don't understand it.
But that's not a real suprise, cos I'm a Prospect member, an atco, and work at an airport that is larger than some but inversly bigger than others, with only a modicum of pox.
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 58
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From: UK
Firstly, apologies for my original outburst. 
I was hacked off and slightly intoxicated during my original post, unprofessional I know.
Regardless of what unit Richard works at, I referred to it as poxy purely cos he couldn't be bothered to tell us. I would have called any unit poxy, EGLL, LTCC, EGPA, LACC etc it was the fact that he gave none that annoyed me.
Flower: Wales has some fine units including 2 NATS ones I believe, no offence meant.
Almost Prof: Non Nats tut tut tut. Only joking! Come join us! Oh and by the way, you are showing your age. LACC has thousands of windows, I can watch the trees swaying in the breeze whilst I vector hundreds of A/C to many fine units.
Roger out: We are not willingly giving away our airspace. The reason, as I am sure you are well aware is that we don't, and will never have enough staff to fully man up all LACC sectors. EGCC and SCATCC however have surplus staff, and unfortunately very few of them offered to come and bail us out when the units were trawled last year, so the airspace has to go in the other direction.
The irony of it is, and I really hope i'm wrong, is that all Area work will be done at LACC within 10 years anyway and all the airspace and all the kicking and screaming ATCO's will be down here plugged in at Swanwick.
Everitt and Michael Bishop(as TAG Group Chairman) said at the time of the PPP that there will less than 10 ACC's in Europe within 10 years. Now let me see, GB and Ireland will still have four of them? I Don't think so!. LACC and maybe Shannon if the IAA (one of our owners in case you had forgotten) and NATS, manage to keep the Oceanic contract. Again this is unlikely as NAVCAN will be bidding for it, and their Oceanic costs to A/C are 60% lower than NATS.
Anyway, off the subject now. Come on Richard, what was your problem anyway? PAY? Boring, settled now anyway. Overtime, no choice, 60 ATCO's short this year, 65 short next summer after retirees. Our only hope is that no one will work it anyway and it will get forgotten about. Weather, sorry our is better! Parking, yes we have loads. Delays, sorry you will never beat us!!
Live long and prosper!
I was hacked off and slightly intoxicated during my original post, unprofessional I know.
Regardless of what unit Richard works at, I referred to it as poxy purely cos he couldn't be bothered to tell us. I would have called any unit poxy, EGLL, LTCC, EGPA, LACC etc it was the fact that he gave none that annoyed me.
Flower: Wales has some fine units including 2 NATS ones I believe, no offence meant.
Almost Prof: Non Nats tut tut tut. Only joking! Come join us! Oh and by the way, you are showing your age. LACC has thousands of windows, I can watch the trees swaying in the breeze whilst I vector hundreds of A/C to many fine units.
Roger out: We are not willingly giving away our airspace. The reason, as I am sure you are well aware is that we don't, and will never have enough staff to fully man up all LACC sectors. EGCC and SCATCC however have surplus staff, and unfortunately very few of them offered to come and bail us out when the units were trawled last year, so the airspace has to go in the other direction.
The irony of it is, and I really hope i'm wrong, is that all Area work will be done at LACC within 10 years anyway and all the airspace and all the kicking and screaming ATCO's will be down here plugged in at Swanwick.
Everitt and Michael Bishop(as TAG Group Chairman) said at the time of the PPP that there will less than 10 ACC's in Europe within 10 years. Now let me see, GB and Ireland will still have four of them? I Don't think so!. LACC and maybe Shannon if the IAA (one of our owners in case you had forgotten) and NATS, manage to keep the Oceanic contract. Again this is unlikely as NAVCAN will be bidding for it, and their Oceanic costs to A/C are 60% lower than NATS.
Anyway, off the subject now. Come on Richard, what was your problem anyway? PAY? Boring, settled now anyway. Overtime, no choice, 60 ATCO's short this year, 65 short next summer after retirees. Our only hope is that no one will work it anyway and it will get forgotten about. Weather, sorry our is better! Parking, yes we have loads. Delays, sorry you will never beat us!!
Live long and prosper!
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,294
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From: UK
dtycln , apology accepted and yes I am NATs.
Would the person who ever put this notice on please explain themselves.
If you know about a split perhaps you would be so kind to inform the rest of us Area and Airports because none of us seem to be aware of one.
Would the person who ever put this notice on please explain themselves.
If you know about a split perhaps you would be so kind to inform the rest of us Area and Airports because none of us seem to be aware of one.
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 474
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From: Ayrshire, Scotland
I'd love to know what the original post was about. If this is about overtime then maybe Richard could explain why it is such a bad deal that the overtime, which many airports have worked for decades, is now better valued. That value is a national agreement and applies to all ATCOs. Well done LACC for setting the standard.
In the meantime while Richard smirks in the background DtyCln has made some interesting observations.... EGCC and ScACC (it hasn't been ScATCC for 7 years) have a surplus of staff. Nope. We just have less of a deficit than LACC and can do the same task with less staff as we don't have the "advantage" of the NERC inflexible system or LACC method of operation.
Something about us being trawled last year ..... No we were not. If we were, a great big drawback to anybody volunteering for LACC is the treatment received by the last lot of volunteers. The training system was so c***p that the guys were lucky to average 8 hours a month and lots of other issues which got too personal to discuss here.
All the area work will be done at LACC in 10 years !!! I'll give you £100 today on the basis you quadruple it on 16/10/05 when it becomes obvious that NSC is being built, MACC are heading North and we are not heading for LACC by 16/10/2012. Just e mail me your name and address.
Not only have I have I not forgotten but it never happened. IAA own not one single part of NATS.
Other than that I like a LACC ATCO who has the balls to apologise in public. Good on you mate.
In the meantime while Richard smirks in the background DtyCln has made some interesting observations.... EGCC and ScACC (it hasn't been ScATCC for 7 years) have a surplus of staff. Nope. We just have less of a deficit than LACC and can do the same task with less staff as we don't have the "advantage" of the NERC inflexible system or LACC method of operation.
Something about us being trawled last year ..... No we were not. If we were, a great big drawback to anybody volunteering for LACC is the treatment received by the last lot of volunteers. The training system was so c***p that the guys were lucky to average 8 hours a month and lots of other issues which got too personal to discuss here.
All the area work will be done at LACC in 10 years !!! I'll give you £100 today on the basis you quadruple it on 16/10/05 when it becomes obvious that NSC is being built, MACC are heading North and we are not heading for LACC by 16/10/2012. Just e mail me your name and address.
IAA (one of our owners in case you had forgotten)
Other than that I like a LACC ATCO who has the balls to apologise in public. Good on you mate.
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 58
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From: UK
I should really be asleep!!
IAA don't own any part of NATS, agreed.
IAA pulling TAG's strings behind the scenes. YES
Hence the reason we at LACC are getting a dozen or so Shannon ATCO's on secondment from the IAA. Working for NATS whilst still being paid by the IAA on very juice terms and conditions.
Like I said, I hope I'm wrong, if not the A74(M) will have been finished by 2010 for all the Pickfords lorries blazing south!
Left at Bristol, Right at the A34, left at M27 and you can't miss us! We are the large building on the left hand side.
Live long and prosper.
IAA don't own any part of NATS, agreed.
IAA pulling TAG's strings behind the scenes. YES
Hence the reason we at LACC are getting a dozen or so Shannon ATCO's on secondment from the IAA. Working for NATS whilst still being paid by the IAA on very juice terms and conditions.
Like I said, I hope I'm wrong, if not the A74(M) will have been finished by 2010 for all the Pickfords lorries blazing south!
Left at Bristol, Right at the A34, left at M27 and you can't miss us! We are the large building on the left hand side.
Live long and prosper.
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 413
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From: EU
One point: although the "overtime" deal is a national deal, it's down to local management to decide whether or not to pay out. We've been told that under no circumstances will we get that rate - just the previous "buy back a day's leave" routine.
I for one have refused to do any overtime since this situation arose.
I for one have refused to do any overtime since this situation arose.
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 20
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From: Home
Just a quick note about the national agreement regards buying back of excess leave and days in lieu. I am at an airport, not huge, but in the top 4 or 5 and expanding rapily!! We have been told that we will just have to carry over any leave and days in lieu as there is no money available to us, and it appears that to try and fit the leave in next year we may even be working below our agreed OR (nothing new there then). I guess this is what the original post was referring to?
I don't blame anyone for accepting the pay deal, I guess some of us just wish bits of it were tied down somewhat more tightly rether than leaving it up to 'Local Management'. Our strenght is sticking together..lets keep it that way
I don't blame anyone for accepting the pay deal, I guess some of us just wish bits of it were tied down somewhat more tightly rether than leaving it up to 'Local Management'. Our strenght is sticking together..lets keep it that way
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 413
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From: EU
For the benefit of those who've not seen it, here's Motion 12:
Quote-
1. Conference agrees that the needs of members will be best suited to a restructuring of the ATCOs Branch. Conference instructs the BEC to produce a paper on realigning the branch into Area and Airport sections for discussion at ADC 2003.
LACC MEMBERS
-unquote.
I'll make no comment......
Quote-
1. Conference agrees that the needs of members will be best suited to a restructuring of the ATCOs Branch. Conference instructs the BEC to produce a paper on realigning the branch into Area and Airport sections for discussion at ADC 2003.
LACC MEMBERS
-unquote.
I'll make no comment......
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 58
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From: UK
The usual Blah Blah!
Just vote it down if it's crap. Any member can submit any motion on any subject. If a vocal minority choose to submit a motion on a 'consultation paper' good on them. How many people in here can ever say they have submitted a motion to conference? Many motions submitted to conference are utter crap, just vote them down. No big deal. Go to conference, see what the motion is actually about then vote. It's called democracy. Don't tar every LACC ATCO if it turns out to be an anti Airports motion, because it only takes 2 anti airport ATCO's to submit the motion.
Live long and prosper
Just vote it down if it's crap. Any member can submit any motion on any subject. If a vocal minority choose to submit a motion on a 'consultation paper' good on them. How many people in here can ever say they have submitted a motion to conference? Many motions submitted to conference are utter crap, just vote them down. No big deal. Go to conference, see what the motion is actually about then vote. It's called democracy. Don't tar every LACC ATCO if it turns out to be an anti Airports motion, because it only takes 2 anti airport ATCO's to submit the motion.
Live long and prosper